FieldHerpForum

Here are a few of the more common serpents we found over the past few weeks. (The less common ones will get their own threads )



"Guv'ner! Guv'ner! The peasants are revolting!!" "Why, yes, me lad - I couldn't agree more!"
The large and quite impressive Taiwan Habu (Protobothrops mucrosquamatus) in the photo above was crossing the road near a little farming community, and no sooner had we started playing with and photographing the snake, the locals came out to watch the spectacle. One of them was a rather unpleasant and half-drunk old coot who asked us to kill the serpent right then and there. Telling him that the Taiwan Habu is a protected species only generated a derisive snort, and my (pretty naive, I'll admit) comment that this snake "is your friend - it eats the mice that devastate your crops!" made him question my very sanity. Since I feared he'd go ahead and murder the beast with one of his flip-flops, I opted for a solution that would allow both of us to maintain face while preserving the snake's life: with the words "ooops, clumsy me - looky what I did now!", I let the snake slip off the hook, and it promptly disappeared into the roadside vegetation. Hence, I only got one usable picture.

But for my sons, it was a great lesson in ecology, anthropology and sociology: of course, killing snakes is completely senseless, but you can't just hate on the peasants: one must respect the man's social background, education, and work experience, all of which play a part in his fear about stepping on the snake the next day when he's tending his water bamboo fields. We discussed the conundrum and possible answers for the rest of the way back home.


Next up: a Collared Reed Snake (Calamaria pavimentata), aka "Wire Snake" in Chinese. It's a common, but rarely seen species: it spends most of his life under leaf litter.









Another night, another krait (Bungarus multicinctus). I remember how awestruck I was when I met my first live krait back in April. Since then, I've come to realize that this is actually one of the four most commonly encountered nocturnal snakes here, along with the Taiwan habu, the Bamboo viper, and Dinodon rufozonatum (<- see below). Hardly a night cruise goes by without meeting one of these sca(l/r)y tube zebras. They are indeed very mellow and timid, but that's no reason to underestimate them. This one was found in a roadside ditch hunting snakes hunting frogs.



Green Snake, Cyclophiops major. As you can see, they're highly prized as fashion accessories as well as a quick protein replenishment and tasty trail snack









Sinonatrix percarinata suriki, Eastern Water Snake or Olive Keelback, depending on who you're talking to. An ugly, yet feisty little semi-aquatic snake that will engage in an epic and bloody tussle when you try to grab it. Luckily, it calms down to a zen-like state quite soon, much to the delight of my brood and their buddies, who love to brag about getting bitten by snakes, but hate the actual biting bit









Dinodon rufozonatum (no real common English name). This very bitey frog lover is by far the most common nocturnal snake 'round these parts. Amazingly, few people here have ever heard about it. The only night snakes the civilians seem to know are the venomous ones.









(that ain't the pavement, it's a wall






And lastly, a fellow herper: Crescent Serpent Eagle, Spilornis cheela. In the lowlands, these large birds like to sit in dead trees (no leaves = better lines of sight) above tea plantations, orchards and paddies, and scan the land for snakes and lizards. They sure know a thing or two about good herping grounds, and searching the areas above with they perch is never a waste of time.

Another good post. Really enjoyed the snake climbing the wall and also the one that was peeping out between the rocks.

Its always a problem when finding snakes abroad, locals mainly seem to want to kill them. We tend to try not bring attention to any we find in case someone looking on decides to take a stick to it after we have gone.

We had a real standoff at a tea plantation in the Cameron Highlands, Malaysia. Having already been told that lots of 'poisonous snakes' were killed by the plantation workers we found a small brown snake near a concrete retaining wall outside the cafe. The area was busy with people and, after taking a couple of photos of the snake we were approached by one of the cafe workers who picked up a large rock. He told us he must kill the snake as it was a cobra (it was in fact a mountain reed snake-Macrocalamus). We argued with him and put ourselves between him and the snake. Not willing to push past us the man got quite angry. As my wife tried to persuade him it wasn't a cobra I lifted the snake up and over the wall and hurried it along into the undergrowth and down a hole. We had to stand for about ten minutes to stop the waiter trying to find the snake and crush it. Eventually, mumbling angrily, he returned to clearing tables.

Scary story, Rags. The problem abroad is always that you're not a local and thus garner little respect from them. I don't often get into this situation, and if I do, it's usually with hikers, many of whom already have a better knowledge of the local fauna than people from other strata of society. But if they don't, and seem to be bent on harming the critter in question, I just brandish my snake tongs (which look quite formidable), tell them that I'm a German snake researcher for Hamburg University, and declare the situation under control. That not only shuts them up, but often also triggers their interest, and they'll start asking questions about the animal. Fake or real, authority often works quite well in many situations. The question just how a German researcher on short-term loan from a European university would happen to speak fluent Chinese with a heavy Taiwan accent never crosses their minds

Hans,

As always, a very interesting and entertaining post.



You must feel like that because of all those night walks and your fading presence!

I like that "up periscope" view of the keelback. I can sympathize with the kids who:





Regards,
David

Wonderful post! I love the habu and Bungarus! Kraits are some of the most beautiful animals on this planet IMO. Also one of the deadliest lol

Thanks for sharing Twoton! Its always a treat to see herps from the other side of the globe. Keep um coming !

Thanks, guys! "Fading presence" sounds ominous.....I hope you're referring to my weight loss While it's true that I haven't posted much of late, don't blame me - it's the season to be jolly and spend all hours in the bush!

Great post, I loved the story and the pics. The wire snake is a new one on me, I always appreciate a post with new species.

Another winner!

I love the posts, the relating to issues seen by all herpers across the globe with locals and fear of snakes as they are obviously all venomous and horribly dangerous. Important to see lucid thought process, and diplomatic solution allowing face to be saved by both parties..

Anytime one can herp with the kids it creates winning experiences, as for the protein snack...well I prefer invertebrates .

The Protobothrops and Bungarus were FANTASTIC!!

Keep up the posting!

I always enjoy your posts so much.

Great post as usual!! I was thinking that with a name like "TWO TON" you may have a slight 2:1 size advantage over most of the local "peasents" and they might be a little hesitant to argue much with you. Plus you may get the special title of "king size" as I did from a reasturant worker from Korea here in the states. She told me that she was always told that European kings were much bigger than the average man and I am 6'8" so I guess I win, now to just go find and claim my throne...

Jason

What is the typical attitude in Taiwan towards snakes? This guy obviously didn't like snakes very much, but in your other post you show a temple with a snake statue in front of it.

Hello Hans,

Yes, I meant your weight loss.

Regards,
David

A great post with photos to match. I just love reading about herping in far away lands.

Cool post. I'm always fascinated by the similarities in pattern and body form between snakes from such divergent locations. The Reed Snake looks remarkably like some phases of the Ringneck Snakes we have around here. And, of course, the Green Snake and Sinonatrix.

That habu is sweet, too bad about the locals keeping you from better photos, but congrats on managing to save the snake's life... hopefully he'll be able to avoid angry farmers into the future.

Thanks very much for the nice comments, y'all.

Just like in any other snake-harboring country, the attitude towards snakes in Taiwan varies with education and exposure: there are the above-mentioned peasants who have to deal with hots every day; there are the idealistic biologists (pros and hobbyists alike), and there are the blessedly ignorant civilians, whose reactions range from the dull ("Snake. Meh. Whatever") to threats of violence against the animal, all the way to heart palpitations dangerously outside the acceptable range. (I'll never forget the moment when Karl, our 8-year old son, face aglow with the three Sauter's Water Snakes he'd just found, thrust this fistful of wriggling serpents into the face of an old lady passing by on the trail, yelling "MA'AM! Just LOOK what we FOUND! Aren't they just WAY COOL???". The lady went ghostly pale, then burgundy-purple, then pale again, and took ten large and very hasty steps back. After finally catching her breath again, she said in a very small voice "Sorry, laddie, but I....hate...snakes". Karl then launched into a fiery lecture about the ecological importance of snakes as hunters and prey, as well as their general coolness factor, but she wouldn't have any of it: "I know all that, my dear boy, I really do, but.....I still HATE them.")

Spiritually, though, the Chinese love their serpents: the snake is one of the 12 animals of the the Chinese zodiac, and it's also revered as the right hand of various Taoist gods. Then again, us foreign devils have a scorpion as one of our astrological signs, an animal most people would gladly squish if it were to crawl across their breakfast table. As long as they're imagined, all beasts are OK


Atrox: the wire snake was actually introduced to the forum by Michael in Thailand a while ago. Look for Calamaria pavimentata.


Like what, hot dogs?


Me too! The more I learn about snakes from faraway lands (such as New Jersey) , the more I realize this pattern. Water snakes, green snakes, coral snakes, Sauter's Grass Snake (our true equivalent to your ringnecks)....the list goes on. Good thing we still have more elapids than youse, otherwise I might as well quite posting

I hope to be able to posts some more stuff these coming days - Typhoon Morakot is coming to town, and we probably won't be able to leave the house for two days....

PS: About "TwoTon" - it's correct that the moniker hints at my majestic height and girth, but, spelled differently, it also refers to my forefathers

Thanks! I enjoyed the writing as much as the photos.

Do you have one green eye and one blue? Pete Townshend is looking for you.

Neither, in fact. Under "Eye Color", my passport says "Blue-Green-Brown". No, not making this up. The color you perceive at any given time depends on the angle of viewing, the light (and my mood, some say ) That blue in my left eye in the snake-eater image is the result of re(de?dif?)fraction on the glasses.....

Interesting post again! I too like tales of herping far off lands.

One of your responses made me think of a question:
Do you think snake populations in rural Asia can persist longer than snake populations in the rural United States (across areas of similar human population density) because of the historic and current cultural differences related to spirituality? Christianity and it's negative portrayal of the serpent has and continues to influence the minds of most folks throughout rural U.S. and I wonder if Christianity has potentially influenced the rural Americans' attitudes and behaviors towards living snakes. I'm not very knowledgable of the Eastern religious philosophies, but I think the Taoist traditions hold the serpent in higher regards than the Christian belief systems and I wonder if this could have affected the attitudes and behaviors of rural Asians?

What is the most common attitude/behavior a rural Taiwanese person displays towards snakes they encounter?

Brendan

Hi Brendan,

when I came to Taiwan 20 years ago as a college student of Sinology, I had high hopes about today's Chinese being heavily influenced in their every day life decisions and thoughts by all those Taoist, Buddhist and other pertaining Eastern philosophies. Well, I was in for quite a reality check: like in any modern Western society, religion is something you do on Sunday or at weddings, funerals etc. Religious and philosophical concepts play very little direct roles in practical decisions here - this here's a modern society, nothing more, nothing less. Confucius is someone you learn about in school, and followers of Taoism (the religion, not the philosophy) are people in funny yellow robes who speak in tongues at their gatherings. A Chinese farmer might even be born under the sign of the snake, but unless he's had some kind of educational or peer influence or done some thinking by himself, he'll kill every snake in sight, for the same reason American stockmen kill coyotes - it's dangerous varmint, bad for business and health.

On the upside, the number of enlightened farm folk I meet is quite high, and I'd even wager that the violent ones are the minority. Most farmers I know (and I know a lot, I'm the chair of the parents' accociation at our boy's elementary school )are quite knowledgeable about snakes, recognize their agricultural value, and won't just kill anything that wriggles. However, out of experienced fear they're always wary, which sometimes begets situations in which even harmless snakes lose out.

To sum it up, I think religion plays a much lesser part in these decisions than basic human character traits do: mouth-breathing rednecks are the same all over the world - they don't think & act, they just react. Smart folks think, then act; city or country folk alike.

Question right back: does the negative image of the serpent in Christianity really influence American rural folks in their attitudes towards snakes? Does a farmer actually think about the Serpent in the Bible when he encounters a rattler? Or is his reaction rather shaped by much more archaic - or maybe even economical - thoughts?

Discuss!

Hans don't ever stop. Your posts are one of the best things about FHF.

Thank you very much for the very nice compliment, Jeremiah; it's very much appreciated. Alas, I think I'll have to return the laurels with all due respect and much humility: I'm really but a stumbling amateur who just happens to live on the other side of the planet (from most of you), and there are a lot more people here who contribute much more substance than me. Hell, a year ago I couldn't tell atrox from Clorox! But I'll certainly try to live up to the expectations - thanks again for the encouragement.

Thanks for the response Twoton...I find your observations on Asian culture and society interesting. I don't know if Christianity truly influences rural Americans' attitudes and behaviors towards snakes and you are probably right in that there are other developmental forces besides religion that influence the minds and attitudes of rural people, education being a main one....making ends meat being another. To your question, part of me wants to say yes, but I'm not sure if that is partly based on biases I hold. I certainly don't think that when the typical rural American kills a snake, he or she thinks about it in biblical or religious terms, but I wonder if a Christian upbringing (especially one of the more fundamentalist denominations) can predispose someone to act more adversly towards a snake than they otherwise would have if they had been raised within another religious philosophy. I think your observations from Tawain and China are interesting because they seem counter intuitive to me because I would expect Asian cultures, with religions that don't demonize the serpant, to display less overall negativity towards living snakes.

I had a Roman Catholic upbringing in Northern Illinois and have lived in several parts of the United States, but it wasn't until I moved to East Texas and travelled more throughout the south where I really began to see first hand a hatred of snakes. Even among the college students (supposedly educated kids) here at Stephen F. Austin University, I hear a lot of the "the only good snake is a dead snake" mentality and I've thought a lot about where that attitude developes from and one thing that always came to mind was religion. Maybe it has nothing to do with religion...maybe that attitude developes from primitive human evolution and then generations of rural folks having to deal with venomous snakes and being poorly educated. But, could it be possible that some forms of Christianity allow rural individuals to more easily justify negative thoughts or actions towards snakes? All I really know is that I don't know the answer. Interesting stuff and I'd like to keep discussing this.

Brendan

Couldn't have said it better.
-Mike

Thanks for the interesting observations, Brendan. Let me add some rambling thoughts:

I believe the meat of the matter might actually lie not so much in the early influence of religion, but in more primordial reasons. As you said,

Do humans have an innate fear of snakes? If so, are they still supposed to? Most herpetologists with exposure to children will tell you that kids do not fear snakes until they're taught to. Paleoanthropologists and animal behaviorists point out that chimpanzee babies fear snakes right from the day they crawl from the womb. This shows that we've already overcome the evolutionary stage where snakes were a real danger to our lives, and it's a fact that we've arrived at a point in our psychological evolution where we (sadly) have managed to "subdue the earth" so thoroughly that there's nothing more to fear, save a big-ass meteor. However, a lot of folks still seem to be stuck at an interim stage - rationally, they might know that snakes aren't the danger they used to be 60.000 years ago, but on a more subconscious level, they aren't really ready yet to let go of the idea. Snake-hatin' religions just fan the flames in this regard.

Now, why do some religions teach us to fear the Serpent? When you look closely at a lot of religious concepts, you will find that most of them stem from very practical needs and experiences. Why do Judaism and the Koran forbid the consumption of pork? Because the early Jews and Muslims were desert dwellers, and raising pigs in the desert is a really shitty idea, not only for economic reasons (dearth of edible trash for the porkers), but also because of the many diseases pigs are likely to catch there, trichinosis being the most dangerous and common one. The shellfish taboo for traditional Jews comes from similar reasoning - in the desert, you just can't keep such volatile protein fresh. Back to the snakes now: I would imagine that desert snakes were quite a pest in those days - there were more of them thank today, and they couldn't hide as well as their jungle cousins, so people were more likely to encounter them. The Egyptians venerated snakes for the same reasons they loved cats - these animals kept the rodents in check, rodents that would have otherwise devastated their crops and grain supplies. But the folks on the Arabian Peninsula and the surrounding desert areas didn't till the land; they were nomads and cattle-grazers, moving from green spot to green spot to raise their livestock. For those people, venomous snakes weren't a boon, but a bane - the same green spots where they grazed their cattle were habitats for rodents and rodent-eating snakes....snakes the cattle might step on while foraging.

And there the circle closes, we're back at practical reasons for snake-loathing.....even if those reasons haven't been valid since the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.