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 Post subject: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:04 pm
Posts: 1377
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Considering that the Taiwan Amphibian & Reptile Association (TARA) was only founded last year and consists of just 93 Taiwanese and one German, they did quite a commendable job with their first annual meeting.

Sure, it was a far cry from the stadium-sized mega-events North Americans are used to, but no mean feat for this little island in the Western Pacific. Roughly half of the TARA members are biology students and scholars, and they managed to rope in some of the most important names in Taiwan herpetology to host and give talks, such as this one about the interesting parenting habits of Eiffinger's Treefrog (Chirixalus eiffingeri). (Sorry about the crappy pictures, I'm really not accustomed to shooting indoors.)
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Apart from the usual ball pythons and corn snakes (both of which the Taiwanese seem to breed with great success), the sales tables also offered a few inverts, mostly Chilean Rose Tarantulas (Grammostola rosea) and African millipedes (no ID). Images of tarantulas crawling across somebody's hand used to give me a serious case of the heebie-jeebies, but when the guy behind the table took one out of the box and put it on his hand, I thought "why am I so afraid of this? I handle all manner of snakes on a daily basis, ferchrissakes, how bad can that little arachnid really be?", and asked him if he could transfer the beast onto my paw. What can I say? At the risk of sounding like a hormonally imbalanced teenage girl (aren't they all?): I fell in love instantly. I've been a fanatical cat lover since I was a small child, and the soft, downy feeling the spider created walking along my arm was right up there with the fuzzy-wuzziest kitten I've ever cuddled. I have a strict NO NEW PETS policy (four dogs, two cats, and two rowdy boys are quite the handful already), but for a while I seriously considered buying the beast for the measly nine USD they were asking. In the end, reason won over passion - even against the massive psychological pressure my boys were giving me: "can we please take it home, PLEASE, Dad? PLEEEAAASE??"- so there's no nice little plexiglas box with a cute tarantula sitting on my desk now (where's the emoticon for "broken heart"?).
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The showrooms were well-stocked: apart from the usual cornsnake/kingsnake collectors, the non-academic part of the club roster consists of well-to-do businessmen with large collections of rare turtles and frogs, as well as a rather sizable gaggle of equally well-to-do triad gangsters. These were identifiable by the $5000 watches and the elaborate tattoos, and for some inexplicable reason (a cosmic joke, perhaps?) they all collect and keep nothing but huge varanids. Quite contrary to my erstwhile prejudice, these fellows do not dabble in über-hots: no smuggled mambas or bushmasters, not even albino cobras, just lots and lots of very large lizards. Everyone was very generous with loaning their babies to the exhibition, and so the two small showrooms boasted a delicious selection of animals one usually doesn't get to see in Taiwan.

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Some of the more exotic animals....well, for us :roll:

Albino Lampropeltis getula californiae
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'Nother kingsnake
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East meets West: Western Hognose and albino Chinese Softshell turtles (Pelodiscus sinensis)
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Now here's something y'all don't get to see much at your fancy Western conventions :D : Japanese cartoon models of anuran species. In their manic obsession to to kawaii-ize (cutify) everything that isn't nailed down, the Japanese sometimes actually manage to come up with refreshingly original ideas.
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Charlie Twoton with a rather docile Varanus albigularis ionidesi. "SO HEAVY!"
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The sign was almost better than the Blue-tongued Skinks....
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Poison arrow frogs
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There was also an infotainment event: a race featuring fifteen snakes representing seven different Taiwanese species, all non-venomous except for two rather sluggish Green Bamboo Vipers (Trimeresurus stejnegeri). As soon as the serpents entered the racetrack, they immediately crawled for the dark hole at the end (sometimes needing a light touch on the tail to avoid U-turns). Their speed was measured and recorded (on that cute sheet on the wall), and after the race, the racemaster analysed the results for the benefit of the attending public, the main point being that no snake in Taiwan will ever outrun a human. When I asked him why they hadn't included a Zaocys dhumnades, the fastest snake in Asia, he replied sheepishly "Uh, we tried to catch one in the wild, but the ones we saw all got away. They're just too damn fast!" Instant hilarity ensued :rofl:
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Some of the snakes featured in the race:

Young Chinese Ratsnake, Ptyas korros. A lifer for me :-)
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Various Common (Dhaman) Ratsnakes, Ptyas mucosa.
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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:06 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Georgia
Ha ha! What a great time that looks like! I wish our shows here in GA/SC had some interactive events like that.

Tow notes for you, though:
your rosehair tarantula is actually a Goliath Bird Eater
and the albino Cal king is actually an albino Prairie king

Great post though! Had a lot of fun reading through that. The frog models were great, and I also liked the statement with the bluetongues!
--Berkeley


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:13 am 
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
shagcarpetpython wrote:
your rosehair tarantula is actually a Goliath Bird Eater

Really? How can you tell?

Quote:
and the albino Cal king is actually an albino Prairie king

Thanks! I'll notify the owner!


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:20 pm
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Location: Where the pavement ends
Thanks for the report, looks like fun. Hopefully you guys had plenty of non herpers come for some education on snakes.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:55 pm 
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
shagcarpetpython wrote:
and the albino Cal king is actually an albino Prairie king



You beat me to it! Great post BTW!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:22 am
Posts: 81
Location: Brownsville TX
what company makes those funny models;

Image


Heck I would love to see if they make a similar version with turtle species.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Location: Georgia
Twoton wrote:
shagcarpetpython wrote:
your rosehair tarantula is actually a Goliath Bird Eater

Really? How can you tell?

Quote:
and the albino Cal king is actually an albino Prairie king

Thanks! I'll notify the owner!



No problem.
The rosehairs are, in my mind, kind of proportional with the body/legs. They also have a nice shimmery purple color to the cephalothorax and evenly fuzzed hairs.
Goliath bird eaters tend to have a really large, round abdomen. They also are not as evenly fuzzy looking, and have stripes on the joints in their legs.
You should be able to google some images of each species to see the difference between the two.
In any case, I am glad you handled one. I am not a big fan of letting them walk on me, but they sure do feel cool when they do it.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Quote:
The rosehairs are, in my mind, kind of proportional with the body/legs. They also have a nice shimmery purple color to the cephalothorax

I'm quite sure these did. I remember that the first thing to strike me when I saw them in their little boxes was their reddish/purplish color. Are the Goliaths more expensive?

Quote:
I am not a big fan of letting them walk on me

Because of the urticating hairs?


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:06 pm
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Location: Georgia
Twoton wrote:
Quote:
The rosehairs are, in my mind, kind of proportional with the body/legs. They also have a nice shimmery purple color to the cephalothorax

I'm quite sure these did. I remember that the first thing to strike me when I saw them in their little boxes was their reddish/purplish color. Are the Goliaths more expensive?

The Goliaths sometimes have that color, but it is REALLY evident on the rosehairs- even more so in photographs. It is really bold then! The Goliaths tend to be a bit more expensive- nowhere near as common. Rosehairs here run about 15-30 USD for adults. Right offhand, I don't know exactly how much a Goliath would go for, but it would also most likely be a wild caught juvenile.


Quote:
I am not a big fan of letting them walk on me

Because of the urticating hairs?


Exactly! My skin is particularly irritated by their hairs, even if they don't flick them at me.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:20 am 
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
This is the company that made the cartoon frogs. Here are some of their creations. Not BAD!


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:06 pm
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Location: Georgia
Hey Hans-
Don't know if you saw my response about the Goliath questions. It got mixed up into the quote of your reply somehow.
Anyhow, it is there. Just in the gray box....I wasn't ignoring the question! :) Here's what I wrote:

The Goliaths sometimes have that color, but it is REALLY evident on the rosehairs- even more so in photographs. It is really bold then! The Goliaths tend to be a bit more expensive- nowhere near as common. Rosehairs here run about 15-30 USD for adults. Right offhand, I don't know exactly how much a Goliath would go for, but it would also most likely be a wild caught juvenile.


--Berkeley


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:00 pm
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Location: Southwest Florida
Great coverage of the event. I agree with others --- it looks like it was FUN ! The snake race 'track' was interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:20 pm
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Location: Billings, MT
Twoton,

Cool post! It's neat to see a different cultural perspective on a "herp event". I'm going to disagree with Berkely on the spider. That's a Grammostola, no doubt about it. You'd be luck to get that "touchy" with a Theraphosa! I'll back him on the Lampropeltis ID, though.

-Cole


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Thanks, Berkeley, for pointing out your "hidden answer", and for Cole to disagree with him :D I have zero knowledge about tarantulas, so I can only judge from the price. I'm sure nine bucks wouldn't buy a Goliath here, as we're on the other side of the world, and importing them is neither easy nor cheap. But from all I understand, roses are quite common all over the world, so the low price would make sense. No?


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:41 am 
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Location: Billings, MT
Twoton wrote:
so the low price would make sense. No?


Totally. Plus the fact that it IS a Grammostola! :D

You should talk your wife into letting you bring one home. They're super easy to keep, and VERY long lived. I've got an female that I've had for 14 years, which was asquired as an adult. I'm not sure how readily available captive bred spiderlings are in your corner of the globe, but if you can see out a captive bred youngster, you'll be doing yourself AND the species a favor.

-Cole


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:06 pm
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Location: Georgia
Hey Cole, what makes that a Grammostola? It looks very much like the Goliath that I have on my desk at work (but it is a bit lighter in color).

If you could give me some specifics on how you ID'd it, I would appreciate it.

I have included some pictures of what I know as a rosehair and a Goliath. My apologies to the websites I ganked these from. I've also included Hans' spider, cropped in a bit, just for comparison. My apologies to you as well, Hans.

Rosehair:
Image

Goliath:
Image

Hans':
Image


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Berkeley,

Theraphosa have short, dense, velvety hair covering their bodies. While they do, like most Theraphosid spiders, have a few longer hairs on their abdomen, they're nothing close to as furry as a Grammostola sp. Also, pay attention to the longer, denser leg hairs of the Grammostola, as well as the thicker ring of hair around the cephalothorax and the number of striated leg segments. The animal is Hans' photo is identical to the Rose Hair you posted.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:16 am
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Location: Kansas City, KS
Cole is right.

100% Grammastola sp (most likely G. rosea). NOT Theraphosa sp.

-J


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:16 am
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Location: Kansas City, KS
Oh yeah, and forgot to mention...

It's hard to explain, but if you've had enough experience with tarantulas you'll see what I'm talking about.

Notice on the original posted spider, how there is a flat, shiny (reflective) patch of copper/pinkish colored hair on the abdomen. G. rosea is really the only one I have ever known that exhibits that specific patch of hair there if it is a spider this general color and morphology, not all rosehairs have it, but the ones that do look very distinguishable.

Other spiders have deep hair patches similar to this, but G. rosea just has a diagnostic looking patch there.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Quote:
You should talk your wife into letting you bring one home.

My wife would have welcomed it with open arms. (She's unusual that way). It's the fact that whenever we visit Germany, the neighbors have to take care of our cats and dogs. I do NOT think I can find anybody here in our little village who would look after a tarantula for a month. I know that spiders are among the easiest pets to keep, but the exigencies of being an expat won't make it happen :-(

No apologies in order, Berkeley. Thanks to all for the highly interesting education!


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Thanks for letting me jump into your conversation Hans.

Cole, Jordan-
Thank you for explaining the differences between the two. I know about the reflective patch that was mentioned; I still however do not see the rosehair characteristics in the spider of question! :) I am not an arachnologist by any means, just going by what I have experience with.

Oh well. Thanks for helping out and correcting my ID.

--Berkeley


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:15 pm 
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Quote:
I still however do not see the rosehair characteristics in the spider of question!

I think it was just a badly lighted shot. All of them were really rosehairy when viewed with the naked eye....


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:12 pm 
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UPDATE: Here are a few more pix (with more and closer-upper animals) another TARA member took at the event.


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Great report - looks like the young fellas had a great time too.

-Mike


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Location: Jones County, NC
Nice photos Two Ton

Someone get this guy a Taiwanese chapter


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 Post subject: Re: FULL REPORT: Taiwan Herpers Association-2009 Meeting & Show
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Thanks for the kudos, but a Taiwanese chapter would be quite empty.......folks here aren't really used to converse in English.


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