best state or national parks in texas for herping

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ebit123
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best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by ebit123 »

Hi, planning to travel to Texas from RI next summer. Have the ability to travel around the state; would like to visit different areas since the state has such a varied ecology/varied species, so I've heard. Interested in all types of snakes, lizards, turtles (esp snappers). Can anyone suggest the best state parks, wildlife refuges,etc (perhaps national parks too?), for herping? Also, will we see much given we are going in the summer - and is july or august better - can't change when we go - I am teaching and only have the time off for a huge road trip in the summer. Thanks so much. Also, do you need a license/permit if you're just herping on hiking trails or around ponds?
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chris_mcmartin »

ebit123 wrote:Hi, planning to travel to Texas from RI next summer. Have the ability to travel around the state; would like to visit different areas since the state has such a varied ecology/varied species, so I've heard.
Indeed it does--because the state is HUGE. Look at a map of ecoregions you'd like to see (coastal plain, Piney Woods, Big Thicket, Cross Timbers, Balcones Escarpment, Llano Estacado, Blackland Prairies, Tamaulipan Scrub, Trans-Pecos, etc.) and crosscheck that with various state/national parks. Pay close attention to the driving distances between the various regions--it may help you narrow down where you'd like to focus your efforts.

Interested in all types of snakes, lizards, turtles (esp snappers). Can anyone suggest the best state parks, wildlife refuges,etc (perhaps national parks too?), for herping?
You can see herps in just about any park, provided it's not one right in the middle of an urban area--and even then, you may see some incidental stuff. With such a varied topography, it's going to be hard to point you to a "best" park. There are "all types" of snakes, lizards, and turtles all over the state. That being said, the greater San Antonio area is good for diversity since it's the general area of convergence for at least two of the ecoregions in the state (I think Bexar County has the highest number of native snake species of anywhere in the US--at least historically; San Antonio keeps getting bigger and bigger...).

Don't you have snappers in RI? 8-)

Also, will we see much given we are going in the summer - and is july or august better
Both can be equally bad, or equally good--depending on what your criteria for success are...

Also, do you need a license/permit if you're just herping on hiking trails or around ponds?
Hmm...this is a tough question. If by "herping" you mean "hiking around and photographing whatever you happen to see," then you don't need anything other the park entrance fee--just like any non-herper who happens to see a cool snake/turtle/lizard. However, as a rule, you can't really go flipping rocks and catching stuff for photos in the parks--much like the rules in other states. No license/permit would cover that outside a Scientific Collecting Permit, which is probably not what you had in mind.
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ebit123
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by ebit123 »

Thanks so much for your reply. I will probably have to research a lot the different habitat areas of Texas, and then just find a park in each one we go to. Thanks for the suggestion of San Antonio - that was about as far south as I wanted to drive, and I have always wanted to check out that city.

Yes, we do have snappers in RI, but that is my son's favorite turtle, so any chance to see one is welcome. Plus, you have other species than what we have up here, right, such as alligator snappers?

Usually when we go herping we have the snake hook with us to poke around. My son does lift rocks with a stick (he does put them back where he found them), and will try to pick up lizards and non-venomous snakes (though not a big problem up north). Haven't had problems doing that in state parks/wildlife refuges in northeast or southeast. Maybe they're less well-staffed, and less people hiking, esp. on weekdays, I don't know. Are state parks in Texas heavily policed? Just curious (we were in a national wildlife refuge once, north of Dallas; we were like the only people there, and no workers outside the visitor center).
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chris_mcmartin »

ebit123 wrote:Yes, we do have snappers in RI, but that is my son's favorite turtle, so any chance to see one is welcome. Plus, you have other species than what we have up here, right, such as alligator snappers?
Yes on the alligator snappers, but they're going to be tough to reliably locate unless you can find someone in eastern TX to help you.

Usually when we go herping we have the snake hook with us to poke around.
I STRONGLY suggest not having a snake hook in any park in Texas!

My son does lift rocks with a stick (he does put them back where he found them), and will try to pick up lizards and non-venomous snakes (though not a big problem up north). Haven't had problems doing that in state parks/wildlife refuges in northeast or southeast.
I wouldn't plan on doing any of these activities in Texas parks...not allowed. Your workaround if you have your heart set on doing this would be to contact each park's office once you have your list of planned parks to visit, and see if you can either get some sort of written permission for what you want to do, or have a park ranger escort you while you do it. I'm not sure how much success you'll have (I think your chances would be higher the further east in the state the park is), but if you let them know you're a teacher it MAY help.

Are state parks in Texas heavily policed? Just curious (we were in a national wildlife refuge once, north of Dallas; we were like the only people there, and no workers outside the visitor center).
It depends on the park, but in any event, I strongly suggest not breaking the law, even if you think nobody is watching! Even if park rangers or other law enforcement aren't present, your son will be watching you. 8-)
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chrish
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chrish »

What you are asking about is probably illegal, depending on your definition of herping. It is perfectly fine to hike around in parks to observe wildlife, including herps. However, you can't flip rocks, logs, trash, etc. in parks and refuges because that is interpreted as disturbance and is prohibited. Furthermore, you also can't catch animals even if it is just to reposition them for a photo as that constitutes disturbance. That includes using a hook to position a snake. Therefore, having a snake hook, tongs, snake bag, jar, etc. in these protected areas can be seen of evidence of your intent to break the law ("if you didn't intend to break the law, you wouldn't have it with you").

So if you are happy walking along and looking at herps, the state and national parks and national wildlife refuges in Texas offer some great opportunities.

If you can't take a hands-off approach, you will need to restrict your herping to areas where it is allowed. Unfortunately, most of Texas is private land but there are 4 large national forests in the eastern part of the state where you can flip logs, etc., as long as you are abiding by the state hunting laws. This means you need a license and you can't mess with protected species (including Alligator Snappers).

Finding Alligator Snappers is tough anyway without either trapping them or diving for them in murky water. I've never seen a Alligator Snapper other than by these methods. They don't get into shallow water very often and they don't bask like common snappers. In fact, Common Snappers don't bask that often down here since the water is warm. You can find Common Snappers on land and in shallower, clearer water so your odds are better than for an Alligator Snapper.

Don't mean to come off so negative. There are great herping opportunities here in Texas, but there are also laws to protect the herps. I suggest the National Forests might be a good place to do some field herping and then try some of the good protected areas for observing herps. At the right time of year, walking roadsides can be productive.

Some of my favorite "hands-off" places are:
- in southernmost Texas like Santa Ana NWR and Sabal Palm Audubon Sanctuary.
- Brazos Bend State Park just SW of Houston is a popular place to see gators that are pretty acclimated to people.
- Lost Maples State Park in Central Texas has some decent herps, but they are harder to see

Also, since you are from RI, don't underestimate distances on the map in Texas! It is an all day drive (at 75-80mph) to get out to West Texas from the eastern part of the state. Even the lower valley is a good 7-8 hours away, depending where you start.

If your son likes turtles, walking along some if the jetties (I like the one in Port Aransas) is a good place to see young sea turtles feeding on the algae on the rocks. No catching allowed, of course, but cool to see.

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ebit123
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by ebit123 »

Thanks so much for the info. Very helpful. just starting to get started on planning this trip. yes, aware of the distances - we are one of the few RI families that travels out of state, cross country, etc (serious about that - RI natives are known to rarely leave the state, as small as it is). we actually drive to Mass. and Ct to go hiking lol.
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jlzachary1
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by jlzachary1 »

what about the WMA's? Are they pretty much hands off too?
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chrish
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chrish »

jlzachary1 wrote:what about the WMA's? Are they pretty much hands off too?
My understanding is that you can herp in WMAs if you can access them. However, many WMAs have restricted access periods and you need a special permit (Limited Public Use Permit - $12) as well as a hunting license to be allowed to access the open WMAs.
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by Biker Dave »

Do I need a hunting license/ HERP stamp if I'm hiking around The Davis Mtns State Park area? Or if I just happen to see a Herp in the road and stop to photo it?
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Soopaman
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by Soopaman »

chrish wrote:
jlzachary1 wrote:what about the WMA's? Are they pretty much hands off too?
My understanding is that you can herp in WMAs if you can access them. However, many WMAs have restricted access periods and you need a special permit (Limited Public Use Permit - $12) as well as a hunting license to be allowed to access the open WMAs.
What about collecting in a WMA with a public use permit/hunting license/herp stamp?
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chrish
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chrish »

Soopaman wrote:What about collecting in a WMA with a public use permit/hunting license/herp stamp?
Rules appear to vary by WMA (?).

Look up the WMAs you are interested in here - https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/pu ... _contents/
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ebit123
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by ebit123 »

I have a question about the WMAs. Dont want to start a new thread, but figure will ask here as last few posts have been on WMAs.
So. I know about the permits and rules about when they're open to public hiking.
But..to drive into them, some say 4 wheel drive,but others dont mention type of vehicle. Is it safe to say, if vehicle type is not mentioned, 2 wheel drive is ok? And for WMAs that say 4 wheel, can you leave car at entrance and hike in?
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by chris_mcmartin »

ebit123 wrote:I have a question about the WMAs. Dont want to start a new thread, but figure will ask here as last few posts have been on WMAs.
So. I know about the permits and rules about when they're open to public hiking.
But..to drive into them, some say 4 wheel drive,but others dont mention type of vehicle. Is it safe to say, if vehicle type is not mentioned, 2 wheel drive is ok? And for WMAs that say 4 wheel, can you leave car at entrance and hike in?
I don't know if I'd assume "absence of information" to mean "2WD is OK." 8-) Which WMAs do you have in mind? (Not the I'M the right person to ask, but maybe someone else reading can confirm/deny 2WD accessibility).
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ebit123
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Re: best state or national parks in texas for herping

Post by ebit123 »

So, I am thinking....Engeling (sp?), Kerr, Granger, Las Palomas (I understand all different parcels...probably need to contact someone there). All in next July (yes, just got back from this year's trip, and already starting to plan next year's)
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