Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

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Brian Hubbs
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Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Brian Hubbs » June 30th, 2012, 2:23 pm

Yes, why don't some of us enter our finds in the database? This a good question. I know many of us see a lot of stuff, yet some have only entered one snake or nothing at all. What's up with that? Many could be power house's of data for NAHERP...and I'm not just talking about ego thumping contests (I'm picking on everyone who hasn't put their sightings in). The database is a powerful tool for conservation, mapping, and changing stupid laws. We need to show where, and how many of these animals are out there. We need everyone to do as much as they can.

What are the reasons some of you have not joined us? Are you ignorant of how the database works? Do you think it's too much trouble? Too hard?

Here's a fact: It takes 30 seconds to enter a photo, even less time if you know how to open several windows at once, re-size your pics, and enter several species at the same time. The gps is easy too...just click on the wrench tool, dial down to the spot and "click".

We need more entries. That's the bottom line. :!:

No one can see your localities online, except you. No one can take your data unless you permit it. What's the problem? I'd love to hear why we all aren't dumping hundreds or thousands of entries into the NAHERP.com database. This is your lifetime opportunity to make a difference and contribute to a worthwhile cause. Many already do, what's up with the rest of you? :roll: If you have time to post your finds here, you have time to enter them where they will make a difference!

Here's a few more facts (and this is not to brag):

We have over 107,000 entries right now. We have over 600 people who have entered something. I have over 5,500 entries in the database. Fundad has over 4,200 entries in the database. Pingleton has over 3,300 entries. However, over 300 people have lass than 10...and many of us have never entered anything. Many of those people spend a lot of time in the field and posting their finds on FHF. Is the problem a lack of understanding of why the database is important?

I think we need some help...

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by spinifer » July 1st, 2012, 5:58 am

While I REALLY like the little wrench icon, its seems most people dont know about it or notice it and are too lazy to try and determine the GPS on their own. Perhaps the icon should be replaced with an link that is more noticeable like "online map"?

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by hellihooks » July 1st, 2012, 6:42 am

This is my reply from the identical post in the Ca Chapter, but I'm putting it here as well, in the hope that it will persuade more people... :thumb:

I actually live to belittle you Brian... it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol:
Today however... I cannot belittle you for your 'call to action'... despite your sometimes unrefined and brusque approach.
I fully support your appeal for more participation, and your quest to understand why more people don't contribute. An 'in-depth' discussion of this topic can not help but yield more participation, as data entry will prove to be logical, reasonable and righteous, supplanting any real or imagined fears and or defects of character, such as 'laziness'.

I would argue that data collection, and entering the data, is the one thing we can do on a consistent basis, that we do for the herps rather than for ourselves.
We all derive pleasure from seeing herps in the wild, as 'nature lovers'... does that help the herps? NO.

Some take a few home, to keep as pets, or to breed as a source of income...does that help the herps? NO.
Some are avid photographers, either for personal pleasure, or (if good enough) financial gain...does that help the herps? NO.

With the exception of professional research and amateur Ed talks, only collecting and submitting data provides positive utility for the herps we all profess to love so much. And here's the kicker... you don't have to be one or the other... you can be all 4 if you like.

If you are any combination of the 1st 3, with just a fraction of the time you spend 'serving yourself'... you can add data collection/submission and 'give back' a little to the herps you derive so much from, and help insure that your children and grandchildren will be able to enjoy herps as much as you do.

DO THE RIGHT THING... :shock: :D JIM

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Paul White » July 1st, 2012, 7:57 am

I enter, but not promptly and you can't make me :P Wait till winter when I'm bored and I'll get all the way caught up.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Brian Hubbs » July 1st, 2012, 11:33 am

Wow, Helli, I think that was the most intelligent and cohesive thing I've ever seen you write here. :lol: Good job!

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by hellihooks » July 1st, 2012, 12:52 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:Wow, Helli, I think that was the most intelligent and cohesive thing I've ever seen you write here. :lol: Good job!
Well thx Brian... even though I suspect that it's the 1st thing I've written, you actually understood... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol:
It was, after all, a rather simple appeal... :D :beer: jim

If you like, I can send you some excerpts from the book I'm writing... "Shifting Paradigms: A Comprehensive Analysis of Physics and Quantum Physics since Einstein, given Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution" :D

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by AtroxKR » July 1st, 2012, 12:53 pm

I'm on it!
Just added a P. o. lindheimeri I found a few days ago, thanks to the mobile app. I will be adding more as I go.

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Brian Hubbs
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Brian Hubbs » July 1st, 2012, 12:59 pm

Alrighty then...keep up the good work. :thumb:

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Chris Smith
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Chris Smith » July 1st, 2012, 3:28 pm

I enter all observations made on personal time. I cannot enter data collected on work time however.

-Chris

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by brick911 » July 3rd, 2012, 11:37 am

Honestly, I think its like you and Jim have mentioned. People serve themselves. Although, I wish it were different, I personally think that realistically our database will continue to grow slowly as long as we don't promote how people can use it for themselves. People rarely will sit and enter data and hope something good comes from it. We need to give people ten reasons that entering their data can be useful to themselves, than they can go tell their friends and family how great they are for conservation by dedicating all their time to boring data entry, blah, blah, blah, etc.. As a whole, that's the way I see human nature and the reason why so many people are sitting on the sidelines.

Data entry sucks. It's boring as hell. I am just one of the few that have faith that it will work for the animals. And I guess I'm one of the few that does feel that its my way of giving back for invading their world. But I know that after taking pictures of my 12th Fowler's Toad of the day that even I question what I'm doing this for.

The people that enter find after find in naherp are a rare bunch, and I would say are a bit obsessive. We can't expect everyone else to share in our illness. Ideally, we may believe that people should enter their finds. But, I still think we need to promote the database and how it can be self-serving and save our preaching. Believe me, I'm all preached out. People are either gonna, or they ain't.

Try a new attack. Make it fun. Promote the fun features that Don has added. Make it a bragging contest. Whatever its gotta take to populate the database. Who cares what prompts the higher entry rates, just so long as we are getting them entered. What we've done so far isn't working... or at least working nearly as well as it should have.

Good post Brian.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by RobertH » July 6th, 2012, 6:10 pm

I agree with brick911, we need to a) promote the database more and b) give people better reasons to enter data than saying it helps conservation or winning contests is fun. Many people, including some of our best herpers, simply aren't motivated by that.

As I've repeatedly suggested on the CA, we may want to revisit the idea of a star system and/or thank-you post system. We worked both out in detail last year, and Taylor Henry actually contacted Scott and Don to see whether and how the idea(s) can be technically implemented. As far as I know, Taylor received no reply, and no one ever followed up. Taylor is in college now and doesn't have the time to do stuff like this anymore. Heck, he seems to have hardly any time to herp (which is at things should be. College is more important than herping).

So, if we want to really do something NOW, something that all of us here seemed to agree last year, I suggest that someone who has a good connection to Scott and Don contact them and discuss the idea with them. I would happily try myself, but expect to come up empty-handed just like Taylor. We need a point man with more seniority and weight. You know who you are.

This does not mean we should limit ourselves to just a star and/or thank-you post system to increase database participation. I am sure there are other, perhaps even better ways. But no one has suggested any specific alternatives yet, so rather than do nothing at all, we should pursue the ideas that are actually on the table right now and have been on the table for more than 9 months.

Here's the thread Hubbs started last year in October where we discussed the star system and thank-you post system. You may want to scroll down and read just the last few pages to see the star system we ended up agreeing on.

http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... tar+system

Robert

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by chrish » July 9th, 2012, 3:14 pm

What about a post-bombing campaign?
Why not reply to each eligible post in the forum with a polite reminder to enter the data in the database?

Something like:

"Did you know in less time than it took you to put together this post you could have entered all these records in our database? Then your sightings would live on in perpetuity long after this post is gone and forgotten on page 2,241 of the forum. Even if you herp just for your own edificaiton, why not contribute to the larger cause? Herp with a purpose!"

I think one reason people don't use the database is that when you just have a few records, it doesn't seem valuable. However when your record count starts getting up in the triple (or quadruple) digits, you start to learn something about yourself as a herper. It gives me a challenge to do more than just go out roadhunting the same old roads all summer. It gives my herping a purpose.

How about starting a post titled "If you don't contribute to the database, here's what you are missing" where each of us can talk up the benefits of having entered data?

I need to stop replying now....I have some data to enter from last weekend. :lol:

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Chris Smith
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Chris Smith » July 9th, 2012, 7:23 pm

"Did you know in less time than it took you to put together this post you could have entered all these records in our database? Then your sightings would live on in perpetuity long after this post is gone and forgotten on page 2,241 of the forum. Even if you herp just for your own edification, why not contribute to the larger cause? Herp with a purpose!"
:thumb:

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by jonathan » July 13th, 2012, 2:59 am

I think it's good to comment on posts, but be sure to be respectful. Some of us who promote NAFHA have been borderline annoying at times, including myself. If I see a post with some awesome herps or from an area that is lacking data, I'll often put a positive note on the post with a mention of the database. This has led to a lot of positive responses. But the note as it was worded in the previous comment might be slightly too confrontational.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by brick911 » July 13th, 2012, 4:43 am

I agree. Its a very thin line between nagging people and showing them the benefits. I for one, am going to show off Don's newest trick - the life list. That feature is an ego-feeder, and I think might push a few people off the fence onto our side as far as data entry.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by chrish » July 14th, 2012, 3:49 am

brick911 wrote:I agree. Its a very thin line between nagging people and showing them the benefits. I for one, am going to show off Don's newest trick - the life list. That feature is an ego-feeder, and I think might push a few people off the fence onto our side as far as data entry.
Whoa...when did the life list option become available? I've been pushing for that for years.
And how do you get it?

Next we just need to be able to generate county/state lists.

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Don Becker
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Don Becker » July 14th, 2012, 6:01 am

http://www.naherp.com/reports/life-list.php?user=1

I modified the DOR reports to show a user report. Change the number on the end to your user id. This stuff will be made pretty and added to the site at some point.

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chrish
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by chrish » July 14th, 2012, 6:04 am

You da man! Thanks.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by jonathan » July 14th, 2012, 8:35 am

Awesome again Don.

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chrish
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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by chrish » July 15th, 2012, 11:39 am

Here's my attempt to nag some people into entering data -

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12668&p=151458#p151458

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by brick911 » July 18th, 2012, 4:16 am

Oh well. That was a good try too.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by hellihooks » July 18th, 2012, 7:16 am

I still think a "Best entry' contest would be a good way to generate interest/participation... :? jim

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Verhoodled » July 19th, 2012, 11:00 am

Some great ideas on getting folks to submit records.

I try to plug others to sign-up and list data. I'm working on my brothers to do the same, and get their kids' involved as an on-going family side project that's both fun and educational.

The HerpDB hit the 100k record mark, what? - 3 months ago? And it is fast closing in on the 110k mark, which will fall any minute now. A 10% increase in records in ~3 months is pretty impressive, and it's still the height of the herping season.

Evangelize the DB whenever you can. Maybe current submitters could make it a personal challenge to get one person (family member, friend, or stalker) to sign up per month. Each new set of eyes spins the web to catch data that much wider.

One awesome herper I mentioned it to simply wasn't aware of the DB, was happy to sign up and is burning it up with new submissions.

Some brainstorming: way way back in early days of the internet, getting real time stock quotes and tickers was a big goal. Maybe have a Herp Ticker streaming atop the HerpDB main page showcasing notable recent subs for non-sensitive records?
Ex:
UserNameHere: 20 new records on 3/17..... EnvenomatedInAZ: 9 C. atrox on 7/4.... TrivGuru: 12 Rosies on 6/6.....

Cap it at a dozen entries or so. Maybe offer a ticker opt-out for users who don't want any of their records streamed (Perhaps opt-out should be the default setting, which users can change to opt-in, if desired)

Following Jim's excellent idea of a Best Entry: perhaps a superlative page: Most Records In Current Month, Most In A Day, Most County Records In Current Month, etc. Make it fun and accessible. Even give the awards names, be it for herp heroes. Ex: Klauber Award: Most Crotes (Species/Total) Per Year, etc. Hubbs Award: Most Mtn Kings, etc. You get the idea.

Maybe an inset "Random Record Of The Day" w/ contributer, species, thumbnail and link to the record.

Again, I certainly don't want to burn anybody out if any of that is ridiculous whether in terms of concept or the always-underestimated dev and sweat hours. There are some awesome folks generously powering the HerpDB. I'm just kicking around some ideas that might help engage more potential contributors. A ticker, a superlative page, or a random record of the day could be engaging, dynamic eye candy.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Fundad » July 19th, 2012, 11:07 am

Maybe an inset "Random Record Of The Day" w/ contributer, species, thumbnail and link to the record.

I actually LOVE this idea, it does what Jim and I want best entry, and allows us to choose them at random and not have to go through a bunch of redtape..

Hey Jim what do you think? :beer:

Fundad

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by hellihooks » July 19th, 2012, 12:40 pm

Sounds pretty good... :thumb: the 'random' entry should be separate from any 'best' competition... the best entry is to help focus on quality (completeness) . I found that it was not that hard to fill every field, and if combined with finding a really significant herp (range ex, ect) or herp behavior (mating dance, ect)... we should end up with some truly noteworthy entries.
Hell Brian... you're a chapter Pres... just say "I'm doing it" and do it... :crazyeyes: Pick the best (IYO) Ca entry once a week, or month...and post a link saying You think it's the best. You'd be surprised... a big :thumb: from you goes a long ways... :)
Other chapters may then follow suit... for the other 'eye candy' stuff, we might need to get Scott on board... which I don't think will be a problem. :beer: jim

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by jonathan » July 19th, 2012, 7:53 pm

Verhoodled - I like those ideas.

Here's another recruitment idea. I was looking for info on Oregon Slender Salamanders yesterday, and I ran across two blogs where guys had posted an Oregon Slender find. In both cases they had been looking for them. Now, Oregon Slenders are not the kind of thing most people look for and are not the easiest herp to find, so I knew that we had people who were actually interested in herps here. So I dropped a note on each of their blogs advertising the database.

Those of us who are comfortable with searching the web could do this five times a day, easy. Search for some notable herp that your state doesn't have much data on. Find five people who posted a picture of the herp on their website or on some forum. Tell them about the database. Even if only 1 out of 5 is interested, each one of us could add a new data contributor every day without too much work.

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Re: Why do some not enter data in Naherp.com?

Post by Brian Hubbs » July 24th, 2012, 12:29 pm

Don: I like that state by state thing you did there. It's just what an egomaniac like myself needs. Plus, I can easily tell where I need to spend more time...thanks.

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