Cross country herping adventure!!!

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Hadar
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Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

This summer I will be moving some of my pets from home (Illinois) to Oregon since my job has been renewed for another year. I've been living out of two suitcases for the past 8+ months but now I'm ready to upgrade. It's not worth it to move my bed or furniture but I can't go another year without my frogs, salamander, and gecko. I have two potential opportunities to do this. June 13th I need to be in Champaign, Illinois and August 1st to be in Sheboygan, Wiscosin. The time following either of these dates are ideal for stopping at my parents residence (Urbana, Illinois) to pick up my pets that they have been caring for while I've been gone, rent a car, and drive back to Oregon. Originally I was planning on trying to see some of the states I've never visited (North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Idaho) as well as hit as many National Parks as I can but that isn't a very direct route and my vacation days may be limited.

Instead, I am now thinking of herping my way across the country. For those who know me, I can't sit still in a car for more than 2.5 hours without needing to get out and run around. Solution??? Herp EVERYWHERE!!! I would love to have someone join me in the car so I don't start talking to myself but I'm also happy to herp with people along the route. Which gets me to a route. Right now I'm thinking: IL-IA-SD-MT-WA-OR, IL-IA-NE-WY-UT-ID-OR, IL-WI-ND-MT-WA-OR, or IL-MO-KS-CO-WY-UT-ID-OR. Mike had suggested IL-MO-AR-TX-NM-AZ-CA-OR but when we thought about weather and average temperatures during that time we thought it might be too hot for good herping. What I want to ask of you guys (or y'all for the southerns reading this) is: who wants to join me, what recommendations do people have on a route and stops, and what additional advice you can provide? This is the beginning stages of planning but it needs to happen.

Cheers, Heather
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cbernz
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by cbernz »

Sounds like a fun idea. How do you plan to keep your amphibians cool while you herp? I'd be very nervous herping in midsummer with pets in the car.
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

cbernz wrote:Sounds like a fun idea. How do you plan to keep your amphibians cool while you herp? I'd be very nervous herping in midsummer with pets in the car.
My current plan is to put them in containers with moist paper towel or moss and keep them in a cooler with some ice to keep temperatures from getting too hot. I would stop in the evenings and let them move around in one of the aquaria. The tiger salamander likes to swim so I'll bring a couple gallon jugs of treated water so he can swim in the evening throughout the trip.
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by chris_mcmartin »

The cooler plan sounds doable (I'd suggest placing a folded towel between the ice/cold packs and the animal containers themselves, to help mitigate the "yo-yo" temperature changes between cooler time and "fun" evening time each day). Though I haven't personally used the cooler approach, I've moved cross-country (Oklahoma-Florida, Florida-Wisconsin-Texas, Texas-Oklahoma-Washington, Washington-Texas, Texas-Kansas, and probably some other moves here and there) with my pets (reptiles) at various times of year--cold enough to wear I've kept their containers in my sleeping bag with me, and hot enough to wear I don't stop more than 10 minutes at any given time. Everyone survived. :lol:

Something you may not have previously considered is calling the relevant agency in each state you plan to transit, to let them know you will be hauling X specimens of X species on X dates through their state. Alternatively you may want to draft an affidavit with the same information and sign/get it notarized (I've done this in the past). It shouldn't be a problem, but it's a good-faith measure to keep everything on the up-and-up in These Troubled Times, when some people are looking for any excuse to either make the news with a "smuggling bust" or write new laws. :)
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

chris_mcmartin wrote:The cooler plan sounds doable (I'd suggest placing a folded towel between the ice/cold packs and the animal containers themselves, to help mitigate the "yo-yo" temperature changes between cooler time and "fun" evening time each day). Though I haven't personally used the cooler approach, I've moved cross-country (Oklahoma-Florida, Florida-Wisconsin-Texas, Texas-Oklahoma-Washington, Washington-Texas, Texas-Kansas, and probably some other moves here and there) with my pets (reptiles) at various times of year--cold enough to wear I've kept their containers in my sleeping bag with me, and hot enough to wear I don't stop more than 10 minutes at any given time. Everyone survived. :lol:

Something you may not have previously considered is calling the relevant agency in each state you plan to transit, to let them know you will be hauling X specimens of X species on X dates through their state. Alternatively you may want to draft an affidavit with the same information and sign/get it notarized (I've done this in the past). It shouldn't be a problem, but it's a good-faith measure to keep everything on the up-and-up in These Troubled Times, when some people are looking for any excuse to either make the news with a "smuggling bust" or write new laws. :)
Good point Chris! I would probably put a towel in the cooler over the ice so that the herps don't start floating. Once I have a specific route in mind I can call those state agencies. It might determine which states I can or cannot enter. I know people who work for state fish and wildlife agencies in Iowa, Wyoming, and Oregon who I could contact about necessary paperwork but that doesn't help me for the other states. I'm not sure how to prove that these guys are pets other than taking them to the vet before I leave to have some record that I didn't pick them up along the way. Ideas on that?

I moved them from Mississippi to Illinois in May without any issues but we didn't stop for more than an hour total and we had a SUV towing a U-haul. I'm leaving my various fish tanks in Illinois because I thought that would be too difficult on the fish and my 200 gallon aquarium broke in the last move. I thought about flying with the herps but didn't know how they would handle that and whether airport security would be a pain. When I took two cats through O'Hare airport they made me take them out of the carrier and scruff them above my head while I was manually searched.
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by hellihooks »

In May of 09, my 16 yr old son and I herped our way from NC to Ca... and had a BLAST (hell... i even wrassled a gator :crazyeyes: ) After intially heading south... we took the 40 west... best herping of the trip was night cruising around a KOA (where we stayed) in OK. Pygs, coppers, midland waters, rough earth, turtles... hell can't even remember what all we saw... but one thing I do remember... we cruised a platinum braclet, on some back road... :shock: good times... go for it... you won't be sorry... :D jim
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Jimi »

Something you may not have previously considered is calling the relevant agency in each state you plan to transit, to let them know you will be hauling X specimens of X species on X dates through their state. Alternatively you may want to draft an affidavit with the same information and sign/get it notarized (I've done this in the past). It shouldn't be a problem, but it's a good-faith measure to keep everything on the up-and-up in These Troubled Times, when some people are looking for any excuse to either make the news with a "smuggling bust" or write new laws.
This may be overkill, or it may be sage advice, depending on the jurisdiction (a few states, e.g. WA, CT, and TN, seem to be crazy about regulating herps and herpers; most states do not). Every state wildlife agency I've looked into on this topic has a rule on their books granting a short period of no-permit-required transit, of species prohibited or otherwise regulated in their state.

The most common permit-free transit allowance I have seen is 72 hours. I believe the underlying reason for such a thing, is for the states to not run afoul of federally-protected interstate commerce. Usually this permit-free thing is a joint rule between the state wildlife agency and the state ag agency. It typically applies to many kinds of live animals - domestic livestock and other. So for example someone trucking cattle or bees or aquarium fish or pet snakes from California to Kansas doesn't need an import permit & health cert for every state along the way, just for Kansas, the final destination. Having to get such a mess of state permits would have a chilling effect on interstate commerce, which is not in the nation's public interest.

Anyway, if it was me, and once I figured my route I looked into each state's regs and found each had a "pass-through grace period", I would not bother with any further defensive tactics.

Have fun,
Jimi
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cbernz
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

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Jimi wrote:So for example someone trucking cattle or bees or aquarium fish or pet snakes from California to Kansas doesn't need an import permit & health cert for every state along the way, just for Kansas, the final destination. Having to get such a mess of state permits would have a chilling effect on interstate commerce, which is not in the nation's public interest.
In many cases, the amount of time required to cut through all that red tape might actually exceed the lifespan of the animal in question!
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

Oregon regulations have ruined my plans. Apparently it is illegal to own the species of herps I have in this state so they will have to stay in Illinois until I move again. Guess that means I can't stay here much longer. My green tree frog is already at least 7 years old and I've been away from her for 8 months, don't think I want to do much more than that.
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by MarcLinsalata »

Does that mean you are not going to do the trip at all because of your pets? I was hoping to follow you on your travels because I am doing a similar trip to go back to New Jersey in T-Minus 11 days. I am just going to wing the whole thing (this is actually my 8th and 9th time I've driven cross country but never really herped it, unfortunately :oops: ). I'm planning on doing my usual route - north through NV, Utah, COlorado then straight across to NJ then on the way back toying with going south to the Carolinas then across on the 40 or my usual route of NJ to PA to WV then down through Oklahoma then catching the 40 across. What to do what to do? Still trying to wrap my head around these Texas road cruising laws, though :( . Good luck either way!!
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

MarcLinsalata wrote:Does that mean you are not going to do the trip at all because of your pets? I was hoping to follow you on your travels because I am doing a similar trip to go back to New Jersey in T-Minus 11 days. I am just going to wing the whole thing (this is actually my 8th and 9th time I've driven cross country but never really herped it, unfortunately :oops: ). I'm planning on doing my usual route - north through NV, Utah, COlorado then straight across to NJ then on the way back toying with going south to the Carolinas then across on the 40 or my usual route of NJ to PA to WV then down through Oklahoma then catching the 40 across. What to do what to do? Still trying to wrap my head around these Texas road cruising laws, though :( . Good luck either way!!
Going to hold off on the trip, saving the vacation days for more trips. Hopefully will be herping California, Oregon, Washington, Texas, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Canada this summer anyways. Flying means more time in one place. You should hit up Tim in Denver and Aaron in Kansas though. What part of Texas are you going through?
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Hadar wrote:Oregon regulations have ruined my plans. Apparently it is illegal to own the species of herps I have in this state so they will have to stay in Illinois until I move again.
"Where there's a will, there's a waiver." ;)

Did you talk to anyone or just let the regs speak for themselves (which, in most states, they do poorly)?
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

Did you talk to anyone or just let the regs speak for themselves (which, in most states, they do poorly)?
I asked. I work for the regulating agencies so I should probably follow the rules.
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

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Hadar wrote:I asked. I work for the regulating agencies so I should probably follow the rules.
EVERYONE should follow the rules. ;) Or work to get them changed. Or get written exception. I do all three!
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Hadar
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Re: Cross country herping adventure!!!

Post by Hadar »

chris_mcmartin wrote:
Hadar wrote:I asked. I work for the regulating agencies so I should probably follow the rules.
EVERYONE should follow the rules. ;) Or work to get them changed. Or get written exception. I do all three!
Very true! I've found from moving frequently that it is difficult to have pets. When I first moved out West I flew with a suitcase, my camera bag, and my two cats. Security made me walk through the line and scanner scruffing them (that didn't go over well). Since my appointment was only 8 months I thought that would be enough but I've been extended and I'm down a cat (cancer sucks). My parents have been caring for four aquariums of fish and three herp terrariums for me. They won't give my cat or dog back to me because they are too attached but the other animals they are ready to have moved. The aquariums would be a pain to move so I was thinking of setting up terrariums here for my herps and taking them via plane or shipping them but that doesn't help with the Oregon regulations.

On a side note, my dad dropped my 200 gallon aquarium and broke it. Does anyone have salvage ideas? It won't hold water anymore. It used to be a channel catfish aquarium and before that was an incubator for the beagle I rescued/brought back to life from the side of the interstate in Mississippi.
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