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 Post subject: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2016, 2:34 pm 
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http://www.hcn.org/issues/48.20/in-ariz ... e=facebook


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 4th, 2016, 10:57 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
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Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT
Yep almost every billionaire I know got that way by selling Arizona native herps... crap now the secret is out!


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 10:09 am 
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you might want to tone down the snarky hyperbole, the internet is forever and the documentation of our communities denial is going to be embarrassing enough someday.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 12:35 pm 
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Joined: June 9th, 2010, 3:03 pm
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A typically lie filled article, to many to break down one by one in full detail but I'll touch on a few.

Quote:
a dealer was nabbed with one of Dave Prival’s twin-spotted rattlesnakes in 2006.
On popular internet reptile-trading sites such as "not allowed", a prime twin-spot can easily fetch $1,500.


Are you kidding? People wont touch them unless you can prove that they are completely legal. The only animal's that ever come up for sale are verifiable CB. They have been bred a million times in Europe. The market for these animals is minuscule. Most of the people who would want them couldn't pay 500 a piece let alone $1500. 10 yrs ago a guy got caught with one and they try to make it seem like its an everyday thing.

Quote:
And snake poachers know about Prival’s long-running research locations. As a result, his crew spends much of its field time chasing off guys who lurk around with snake hooks and canvas bags.


This again is a lie, its a page from the timber rattlesnake BS playbook(The ghost that are den raiders), but to the point Dave has no authority to tell anyone anything.

Quote:
And bringing poachers to justice is a heartbreaking challenge. “The amount of effort it the amount of effort it takes to catch somebody doing that is unbelievable.


Lets see. Poachers are so common that Dave and his buddy's spend "much of their time" chasing them. But, the amount of effort it the amount of effort it takes to catch a poacher is unbelievable ? Why doesn't Dave set some of these poachers up since he sees them so often? Rhetorical question. Because Dave is lying. He has never seen a poacher. He has harassed innocent people and classified them all as poachers in his self absorbed mind . But an actual poacher. That's something much rarer then his twin spotted rattlesnake's.

Quote:
Internationally, the black market in wildlife is a multibillion-dollar industry, believed to rank only below drug trafficking in the amount of the money it generates.



That line has been repeated every article but never backed up by any verifiable information. And what percentage of that alleged multibillion-dollar industry is tied to the live reptile trade, virtually nothing. You show me any big money that can be made trading in illegal live reptiles. There's not a single species worth messing with, including rattlesnakes. Certainly a knucklehead pulls a stunt here and there and the anti ownership creeps along with their flunky scientist cohorts try to make it look like an epidemic. But the truth the is trade in illegal wild reptiles is almost non existent.

Quote:
To bring states’ laws more into sync, the Tucson-based Center for Biological Diversity has started a campaign to clamp down on the rampant turtle trade. That could spark more consistent protections for all reptiles, according to the center’s herpetofauna attorney, Collette Adkins.


The Center for Biological Diversity is nothing more then a law firm that specialize in environmental blackmail. They have a long and dirty history. The scumbags that work there are the equivalent of environmental ambulance chasers.

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Climate change has already taken a toll.


Cant do a piece without working that catch phrase in. LOL

Ernie Eison


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 12:56 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, California
I have always thought that if we met, we would probably enjoy each others company. Talking about snakes.

We might even have met, when I was in Fla. I dont think at that time you were a well known entrepreneur .

I knew you would respond to this post like you did, but what I have to ask you is more along the lines of the spirit in which you post, and the very firm platform from which you defend it. I sent you a pm once with my question but you never answered.

So since your here, I want to ask you - when you were a Burmese Python breeder/seller in Fl, and you sold pythons, what did you advise customers to do when they no longer wanted an animal that had grown into adulthood?

Did you take them all back?

Sorry for the derailment, but it is pertinent to a future point.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 2:27 pm 
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Quote:
So since your here, I want to ask you - when you were a Burmese Python breeder/seller in Fl, and you sold pythons, what did you advise customers to do when they no longer wanted an animal that had grown into adulthood?



I think the total number of Burmese python's I sold to private collector's in 20yrs was 2 . Virtually every other burm (all export) went to a large Russian based dealer. Some went to local dealers who exported them. At this point if I choose to keep burms it would be mandatory by law that I breed and sell them. And why would I want to that with all the easy money I can make poaching and selling twin spotted rattlesnakes.


Ernie Eison


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 3:32 pm 
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Thank you for the reply.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 4:11 pm 
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To the topic, it may not matter that one cannot become wealthy from poaching.

It is done as an addendum by people who are "into" snakes. Part of it is the excitement of the pursuit itself. Its a nasty habit and it exists.

Its not about becoming wealthy from poaching - its about being a self serving small scale scumbag thrilling off a little risk and scraping some cash with complete disregard for the snakes that they are "into".


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 5:12 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:02 am
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Location: Southern Cal.
One of my issues with the article is "clamping down on the rampant turtle trade" Say what????

I am sure that is just simply garbage. There are more desert tortoises in suburban back yards than in the wild. Contact any of the countless tortoise rescues, they are always looking to rehome them. If you really want to talk turtle, go to a club meeting or show.

There is no one making a fortune selling native Arizona/California turtles or tortoises.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 5:16 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, California
Have you ever been in a reptile wholesaler facility?

I have.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 5:30 pm 
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China really likes our turtles.

Babies and smaller species are packed in plastic strawberry crates. Thousands per year.

Ironically the plastic composition of said crates has changed with China's plastics manufacture, cheaper formulation of these crates has resulted in softer crates, preventing their stacking. A friend of mine employed at a wholesaler facility i am very familiar with reported in a large loss of turtles stacked during shipping, because of the flimsier crates.

The plastics change of parts and industry articles perhaps youve noticed in other things in our products.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 5:35 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, California
And yes they are packed exactly like strawberries - with mortalities considered a given.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 6:10 pm 
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A man came to my previous workplace wanting advice on how to keep diamondback terrapin hatchlings. Somehow he acquired 50 - yes 50 hatchings as well as some other hatchling species. He would not disclose how he obtained them, and was clue less about how to keep them alive. He thought he had an opportunity to make money from them.

I am pretty sure he was involved in other enterprises of a dubious nature which is Often the case.

Stupid people get their hands on animals all the time. And being a greedy stupid person is extremely common.

The problem isnt who is "making a fortune" the problem is people thinking they can.

China likes Spotted Turtles and Musk Turtles, and any baby species of chelonian. JFI.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 6th, 2016, 6:40 pm 
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Another incident - a very well dressed man tried to sell me two juveniles of a very protected exotic tortoise species that he pulled out from the inside of his suit jacket. Their shells were oiled up shiny. I told him sorry, cant do it and then found it very chilling that he left through the back door of our building - as if he had cased the place before coming.

My employer called everyone who might be privy to such an animal, including the zoo and academy of sciences, to see if there had been a theft, but none.

Where this man got the tortoises- who knows but they weren't from any known source my boss was able to contact.

Herpers need to get on the right side of this issue - and clearly separate ourselves unapologetically from these activities.


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 7th, 2016, 3:48 pm 
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Quote:
Another incident - a very well dressed man tried to sell me two juveniles of a very protected exotic tortoise species that he pulled out from the inside of his suit jacket. Their shells were oiled up shiny. I told him sorry, cant do it and then found it very chilling that he left through the back door of our building - as if he had cased the place before coming.


Two words. ...............federal agent

Quote:
A man came to my previous workplace wanting advice on how to keep diamondback terrapin hatchlings. Somehow he acquired 50 - yes 50 hatchings as well as some other hatchling species. He would not disclose how he obtained them, and was clue less about how to keep them alive. He thought he had an opportunity to make money from them.


Nothing illegal about that. Diamondback terrapins are commonly bred, legal to sell in California and in a 50 lot. 15 bucks a piece is the right price. That and literally 1000's are crushed every year on highways.

Quote:
If you really want to talk turtle, go to a club meeting or show.


If you want the wrong answer to any question, talk turtle at a tortoise rescue meeting.

Quote:
One of my issues with the article is "clamping down on the rampant turtle trade" Say what????


The turtle trade is heavily regulated. l posted a bit of accurate (facts) information about the " rampant turtle trade', China etc. In the " Why do you collect " thread that has been bumped on the main forum. Review my post and feel free to ask questions.

Ernie Eison



Bonus, a bit about the finances involving things like twin spotted rattlesnakes and Burmese python's. Both discussed in this thread. This eloquently worded by a friend of mine , to whom I say thank you for saving me all the typing.

Twin spotted rattlesnakes, Are we to imagine that commercial trade has affected this locally rare species? Pretty unrewarding work:

Market saturation is always a danger in any collector's trade, from coins to postage stamps, and the venomous snake market is the most limited of all herp markets. Even the larger harmless snake markets are at the mercy of supply and demand. The greater the supply, the lower the price; for the urgency to sell live perishables is considerable (one doesn't simply store them up in warehouses and wait until the price comes back up). The albino Burmese python is a good example. During the first year these snakes became available, they were valued at over $3000. After the third year, when more people began breeding them, this price fell to $1500. After the fourth year they could be bought for $500. At the present time the price is in the $20–40 range: an all time low from which it will never again be resurrected, for breeding these snakes is rather easier than breeding poodles. Many people who got into the albino Burmese python business with intent to make money soon found out the truth about the "lucrative snake breeding business." They lost their shirts.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: In Arizona, Reptile Poaching Made Easy
PostPosted: December 7th, 2016, 6:04 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
Posts: 372
Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT
Reptiles -- put three times as much work in as you would in any other enterprise and make 3 times less money. I don't see the floodgates opening anytime soon.


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