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 Post subject: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: December 10th, 2016, 7:13 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
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Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT
Most likely done by animal rights activists, I suspect they are all dead now as they have no black market value. See http://www.mystatesman.com/news/were-hu ... x5HJKnPMJ/


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: December 10th, 2016, 9:09 pm 
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More likely someone clueless who automatically equates endangered with having monetary value.

Have you never worked anywhere where locks were required? People steal dude. And people who steal are quite often stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: December 11th, 2016, 7:27 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
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Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT
Kelley, that is quite possible, too. Either way this is a tragedy as someone that stupid has no hope of keeping them alive long enough for them to be recovered. A total waste and when they get caught, I certainly think they should get whatever the maximum sentence is for the senseless crime.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: December 13th, 2016, 3:15 pm 
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Location: Springfield, VA
stlouisdude wrote:
Most likely done by animal rights activists, I suspect they are all dead now as they have no black market value. See http://www.mystatesman.com/news/were-hu ... x5HJKnPMJ/


Ok, I think your anti-environmentalist sentiments are going a little too far. You are outright assuming that animal rights activists did this without any evidence. Stealing salamanders from a lab that is an insurance policy on the survival of several endangered species doesn't really fit their MO. Have their been any high-profile instances of animal rights activists taking extreme measures to "help" salamanders before? None come to mind, but I could be wrong.

I think it's far more likely that someone with knowledge of the lab (an employee or former employee?) helped facilitate this theft.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: December 14th, 2016, 5:37 am 
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It would take a couple rolled up large feeder comet bags and a net hanging on a nail in the service area to accomplish this mysterious caper.

A student, a custodian, a visitor, a half assed intern, but its a ridiculously incongruent conclusion to default to some 'Salamander Cell' of activists that are out to kidnap and liberate the salamanders...


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 1st, 2017, 8:46 am 
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Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:41 pm
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mtratcliffe wrote:
stlouisdude wrote:
Most likely done by animal rights activists, I suspect they are all dead now as they have no black market value. See http://www.mystatesman.com/news/were-hu ... x5HJKnPMJ/


Ok, I think your anti-environmentalist sentiments are going a little too far. You are outright assuming that animal rights activists did this without any evidence. Stealing salamanders from a lab that is an insurance policy on the survival of several endangered species doesn't really fit their MO. Have their been any high-profile instances of animal rights activists taking extreme measures to "help" salamanders before? None come to mind, but I could be wrong.

I think it's far more likely that someone with knowledge of the lab (an employee or former employee?) helped facilitate this theft.


You are outright assuming it was an inside job of theft. Both of your ideas are just as viable a reason as any other given the amount of, or lack thereof details about the alleged theft. Actually if it was theft, and an inside job, it could be an inside job with the help of an activist. You would both be right.

My first thought was someone screwed up and they died somehow. My guess is that we will never find out what happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 2nd, 2017, 6:28 pm 
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Thats a possibility - a desperate move to conceal mishap. In some places the rotation of many hands on a collection is a risk that can only be avoided with micro management of the more sensitive guys. Or the ability to just do those guys yourself, and not take any chances.

In that scenario if it were true, if that was it, it would probably mean the mistake in procedure happened the previous day, and the same person opened the shift that morning to find the resulting deaths.

Who ever was the managing steward, could have garnered a clue by taking an ammonia reading of the water of the "empty" tank, as within a very short time after death the levels would have shot up tellingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 2nd, 2017, 9:32 pm 
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Best I can tell is that the filter system in that facility is rather extensive and has one large system for all of the tanks ala Petsmart. I would not expect the ammonia or Nitrate levels to rise significantly, but I don't know. Fish die everyday in the pet store and those systems seem to absorb it nicely and I would expect safe guards were in place at this facility for that very thing given the nature of these animals in their care.

If it were to be human error, it's either being covered up or undiscovered as of yet. That is a lot of salamanders to steal for the black market given the specific care that is required to keep them viable to the end destination. I hope we get some follow up to this story. I'm intrigued.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 2nd, 2017, 9:55 pm 
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yeah, i hear what you are saying. We dont know alot about their routines.

Sometimes things that happen with special animals are fueled by personal enamore - but how many were there? I forgot what it said.

Its wierd, but man, once someone stole a conure and put it down his pants. Another lady who wore broaches and those old fashioned pill hats stole a rat.

And herps - the attempts and actual thefts have been too countless to mention. The percentage of employee thefts - either new people or those who's days we could tell would be numbered, figure largely.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2017, 12:18 am 
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The species, their delicacy, and the numbers gone have got my attention on this thread tonight, because it is so nonsensical. I am sad for the sallies, but cant help trying to columbo it out for the odd combination of factors.

Until tonight i just had looked at the article on my phone, but the bigger photo show the tanks strategy doesnt resemble what ive seen in stores that use a centralized system for fish - those kinds of crap stores buy large amounts of fish like bulk products for cheap, this system seems custom for less water agitation and other details like the vat and individual water supply for each tank, and im wondering if the inside pipe drops with the water level during changes.

How much and what kind of traffic goes in and out of there makes me wonder. (inside and outside job)

As for the activist part, i could see a PETA type person having some clueless aim, but not an environmentalist.

The word 'activist' to the herp world has become the same kind of blanket term as many socio-political "enemies" in other genres use words for entire groups of people to simplify them. Its the oldest trick in the book we play on ourselves as tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2017, 12:18 am 
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edit double posted somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2017, 9:50 am 
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I just saw the other pictures and see the vats. How do you suppose the water is being filtered. I know that there are bags of media you can add to absorb certain things and with a power head inside to move the water around would make sense to me.

I love Columbo, great reference.

Agreed, PETA would be a more likely culprit than an environmentalist.

I don't know if these actually have no black market value as the headline suggest. As you pointed out people take things because people want things. If these were stolen I have to believe 1) Inside job for cash, or planted PETA activist maybe. 2) Outside job by someone or persons who knew what they were doing and had a buyer lined up. I would be looking for a shipment going overseas.


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2017, 10:17 am 
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Agreed with your points.. haha i was just looking at the photo again. It may be a continual exchange dealio of fresh water. Which is awesome unless theres a temp mishap or remiss in conditioning at the common point

On a completely unfounded amusement type point the guy has an expression on his face that could be read as guilt/embarrassment like he knows they actually died, if they did there would be alot of explainin to do :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Hundreds of animals with no black market value stolen
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2017, 11:11 am 
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It could have also been something super callous, some toxic personality lash.

I dont think it was peta thing because they could get in too much trouble for animals they have never even heard of. PETA is notedly uneducated about the natural world, and because of their huge PR presence, intelligent animal welfarists have to bear the brunt of that rep. If someone wanted to "free the salamanders", it wasnt organizational but a personal thing, which means they would be mentally unbalanced, but organized enough in criminal thinking to steal.....hundreds
of salamanders???


Its a shame as they are an exquisite little beast. Besides being a native treasure.


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