How to choose birding binoculars?

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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Although I've never been particularly obsessed with birds (a crying shame, given that I spent 23 years in bird paradise Taiwan before I came here!), peer pressure and interesting encounters in the wild here in Sarawak have led to my slowly getting sucked into birding. In fact, I just spent the entire morning looking for sunbirds and spiderhuntes in my local forest park :-)

I have all the requisite books, but am still missing the most important tool: a good pair of binoculars. My budget is ~USD700, and I would like a pair that are specced for use in the forest, where I spend most of my free time.

I'm hoping that the esteemed members here could point me in the direction of a product that suits my needs

Thanks very much in advance for your help!

Hans
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moloch
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by moloch »

Hello Hans,

I will relay this to Ted. Ted has looked into this before. He personally bought high-end binoc but his son bought some vastly cheaper but good Nikon(?) binocs. They are sealed so no problems with moisture getting in and fogging up the lens. I had buy these for me and I will pick them up in August when I head over to the States. They only cost around $300 US. Ted said that he compared them closely with his binocs and there was hardly any difference at all. Close-in focusing was the main problem ... maybe 9' minimum as I recall.

I am in Spain at the moment for work. These sorts of projects are always intense but it was fun to travel to a location that I have not previously visited. So far, I've been out little so have not seen much. I did photo one of the wall lizards near Mertola, Portugal. I'll be here for another 10 days or so before returning to Oz.

Regards,
David
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Hi David,

thanks very much for the quick and very useful reply!

Forgot to ask in my initial post: are there any websites I could rummage around in?

Thanks again!

Hans
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chrish
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by chrish »

A good website to start with is http://betterviewdesired.com/. I would pay particular attention to their "Reference Sets" which are their highest rated and sometimes best value binos.

For birding, you want a waterproof 8x42ish binocular. 7x are OK but 8x are better as long as they are 8x40 or 8x42. I find 10x too hard to use, particularly in dense forested areas, like...oh,...I don't know....Sarawak? A good pair of bright 8x42s will give you a better view than a mediocre pair of 10x binos. Magnification is not as important as binos being sharp and bright.

Better view desired have very good reviews and I have bought my last three pairs of binoculars based on their recommendation as best buys and I have been very happy with the results.

My current pair of Binos is a pair of Nikon Monarch 8x42 binoculars that I am very happy with. They cost around $300US. I have owned a number of binoculars over the years, some costing less, some costing (much) more and I have to say the Monarchs may be the best bang-for-your-buck binoculars around. They are bright, sharp, and very field hardy. Mine have been rained on, dropped in salt and freshwater and pretty much beaten up and still are tack sharp and clear. They also focus close enough for "herp watching" and some bug watching.

Chéree has a pair of Nikon Venturer LX L 8x42s that I bought based on BVD's suggestion that they were the best birding binoculars available at the time. I have to say "Wow, those things are awesome" and certainly better than my $300 pair. But they cost well over $1000.

I have looked through a lot of other people's binos ranging from cheap junk to Swarovski's costing many thousands of dollars. I think the Nikon Venturers are as good as any of those. The Nikon Monarchs are a minor step down, but you would never regret owning them and I promise you can't get a better pair of glasses for $300.

I also own a pair of Pentax DCF WP 8x42s that are also excellent, but I have found they tend to get out of alignment too easily. Pentax has always fixed them for free, but it is a pain getting them flxed. My Nikon Monarchs which cost half as much take a beating and don't seem to get out of alignment.

If you are going to start birding, don't waste money on cheap binoculars. You can find some great glasses in your price range.

Chris
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Jeremy Westerman
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Jeremy Westerman »

10X50 minumum is the power you want to start with or better yet 15X70 in binos. If you have 700 dollars you should be able to buy top of the line brands Bausch & Lomb, Nikon, Zeiss or Canon. Swarovski is the best of the very best but probably way out of your price range.
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

I bought a pair of Nikon 8x42 for a few hundred dollars many years ago when my wife and I were doing extensive field work in Guatemala. Although supposedly nitrogen gas-filled and sealed, they nonetheless developed internal fogging and then internal mildew spots within a year of use there. Even new and at their best they were really only ok. My experience may be atypical and I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon's binoculars are much better now (what isn't?) - and I love their camera lenses, of course - but when I decided to surprise my bird-watching wife with new binoculars last year I made a point of looking for something else. After reading a lot of reviews I got her a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x42 T*FL binoculars, and I must say - wow! They provide an incredibly bright, clear view, and seem especially easy to quickly locate and focus upon subjects; their minimum focus distance is very short (6.5ft, if I recall correctly), too, but I think I've found that handier for scrutinizing herps than my wife has for watching birds. ;) Pricey, but in my opinion worth it.

Gerry
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Hi all,

thank you very much for all the great help! I've been online-researching binocs this weekend, and in my price range (or less), the Nikon Monarchs keep popping up as "best choice" all over the place (David, maybe those are the ones Ted mentioned?). Field hardiness is top priority for me, not only because of my locality, but also because I sweat like a mother, so they seem to fit the bill. Next Monday I'll be meeting with a fellow who runs an optics shop (photo/binocs/telescopes) here in Kuching, and I'll pay special attention to those.

They come in various models, though. While I certainly like the idea of 15X70 binocs, won't those be a tad too heavy for forest treks? You mention 8x42 as your choice, but what about 10x42 or even 12x42? What are the pros and cons of larger magnification in the forest?

Thanks again!

Hans
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

There's more to the trade-offs than just weight (and cost), I'm afraid. Higher magnification (that first number) will give you a larger image once you've located and focused upon the subject, yes, but it will also make it harder for you to locate (because of smaller field of view) and focus (because of need for larger adjustment) on the subject to begin with, and then you'll also have to put up with less brightness of image and more effect from hand shake. A larger lens diameter (that second number) will give you a brighter image, but with rapidly increasing weight (and cost).

8x42 is the compromise solution for the great majority of birders, I believe. You might go for a larger lens diameter if you're so inclined (see what you think of the weight and cost before deciding), but especially in a forest situation I wouldn't recommend that you go for a higher magnification.

Gerry
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reptilist
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by reptilist »

I have the Canon 12x36 IS binos and man, I love image stabilization!

http://www.binoculars.com/binoculars/bi ... ocular.cfm

Image
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Andy Avram
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Andy Avram »

Hans,

Some great suggestions on this page. Not sure where 10x50 or 15x70 suggestion came from, but it would take a specific set of situations for me to get those, and forest (or most other) birding is not one of them.

For real birding, don’t consider anything that says compact. You want full-size binoculars (x42 or larger) or you will see a larger, silhouette of the bird in the bins and there won’t be enough light to see color well.

Stick with 8x42 or 10x42. I have 8x42 and love them. The complaints I hear once you get into the 10s is 1) hard to get the bird in your field of view, 2) image shake, unless you have a steady hand (although this is getting better), 3) they start getting pretty heavy. On the flip side, I know people who have 10x and LOVE them. I would suggest trying some out if possible and see what works for you.

For brands, there are a ton of good ones out there. Personally, through my work I was able to get a great deal on Vortex. My entire family has them, and many co-workers, and everyone loves them. I have the Razor 8x42, but they are pretty pricey. My mother and friend have the Diamondback (on the low end of the scale) and love them. They also have a great no questions asked warranty, which I am a friend had to call in with ours. The company fixed them and returned them free of charge, within a couple of weeks. For the record, both of us dropped ours on concrete, and speaking for my pair the eye cup jammed.

Anyways, a good company, good binoculars and good reviews online.

http://www.vortexoptics.com

Andy

p.s. Get the shoulder harness like reptilist has. I finally got one this year and am NEVER going back to a neck strap again.
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dfreed
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by dfreed »

Andy Avram wrote: Stick with 8x42 or 10x42. I have 8x42 and love them. The complaints I hear once you get into the 10s is 1) hard to get the bird in your field of view, 2) image shake, unless you have a steady hand (although this is getting better), 3) they start getting pretty heavy. On the flip side, I know people who have 10x and LOVE them. I would suggest trying some out if possible and see what works for you.
This is very good advice. Anything more powerful than 10X is going to be heavy, shaky, and have a narrow field of view. Really good binocs are expensive, but the image quality is astonishing. I have a pair of Leica 10x42 that are 12 years old and are still stunningly clear and crisp. You might also check out Eagle Optics (http://www.eagleoptics.com/) if you're looking for something less spendy. The Eagle Optics "Ranger" series is quite good for the money.
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chrish
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by chrish »

Just reiterating a point made by several others - 10x or stronger binoculars are NOT good for tropical forest birding. They work great on a beach or even a fairly open temperate forest, but when you are confronted with a wall of similiar looking vegetation in all directions, you need a slightly wider field of view in order to be able to find the bird more easily. This is even more true for new birders.

Don't be fooled by the fact that you might be able to see "better" in the store or out on the street with a pair of 10x....in dense forests too much power is detrimental. And if you do some reading, you will see the point made that good optics trump power every time. You can see a bird much more clearly with a pair of high quality 7x binoculars than a mediocre pair of 10x or 15x binos.
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

chrish wrote:... good optics trump power every time. You can see a bird much more clearly with a pair of high quality 7x binoculars than a mediocre pair of 10x or 15x binos.
Chris makes a great point here, too. You really get what you pay for in binoculars, in my opinion. Buy the best glass you can afford and you won't regret it.

Gerry
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by VICtort »

I think Andy and Chris are giving you excellent advice overall...others too. I use 10x monarchs, and I really like them, they are my choice, but I am in the open desert and I use them almost every day so I am practiced at finding my targets and it makes a difference. Many serious birders wind up buying a spotting scope in addition to binoculars...both are great tools but have different applications. Thus, I would advise you to go with 8X, and when/if special needs arise, like distant sighting, get a tripod mounted scope. Use your 8X for hiking and birding in dense areas, you won't go wrong. I have used some high end binoculars, and they are a pleasure but quite expensive. I find Nikon Monarchs to be a good value for the $...I have bought several for the Govt. and they seem to holding up well under daily use and banging around off road.

The harness strap across your back is the way to go! It keeps the binoculars right in your chest when you are running and in the brush, keeps them safe, and not violently bouncing. Good luck, Vic
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by AsydaBass »

Hey Hans,

I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been stated quite a few times, just offering my testament... I lived in a dense premontane tropical rainforest for two years, and still spend about 4 months a year in the rainforest. I use a pair of Nikon 10x50, they're the only pair I've owned (though I've used many other brands and sizes while out there) and I love them. Now keep in mind that I do a lot of canopy work, so the extra reach is nice, and the extra light is available to me. They work fine in the forest and I've yet to have issues with light, shake, etc...

With all of that said- I'm currently in the market for a pair of 8x42 binoculars for non-canopy stuff (hiking, "inside" the forest applications). To me, the extra magnification is negligible, and the weight/size saved is well worth it. Also, 8x42's will cost less than their 10x50 counterparts.

be sure to let us know what you end up purchasing

-Don
www.rainforestdon.com
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infidel
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by infidel »

I agree with Chris and the others, stay with an 8x42. 10X and up require VERY steady hands or a mount of some sort. In your price range, they are all going to pretty much be Chinese Bins with various names on them. The Nikon Monarchs are good glass for that price range but I personally prefer the Vortex, Zen-Rays/Hawkes (same maker different name) or Minox in that price range. There are some good places to get both; www.swfa.com and www.camerlandny.com. They have both brands as well as several others to price shop. In your price range I'd look at the Vortex Viper HD's or Vortex Talon HD's in 8x42 or in the Zen's, the Zen-Ray ED2 or ED3. There are some really good deals on the now discontinued ED2's. They are exceptional Bins at around $350. Lastly, take a good look at Minox. their lower end stuff (just like everyone else) is Chinese made but they also have some German made stuff. Their Minox BD 8x44 BL have some very good reviews. I did a review on the Zen-Ray ED2's here: http://centavogear.blogspot.com/2011/09 ... eview.html
Between the wife and I, we have five pair of Bins, a Minox, Zen's, Zeiss, Nikon Monarch (my wife's) and a cheap pair of Bushnell legends. I prefer my minox or Zen's. One thing to also consider, Vortex has about the best warranty reputation in the business. If you drop them and break them ANYTIME they'll replace them. I have a friend that went to Africa huting with a pair of Vortex Talon HD's. The second day there, he dropped them out of a jeep and busted a front optic. He called Vortex and they shipped one over to Africa for him and had them there in three days for free. They told him just ship the others back when you get home to the states. Can't beat that type of service.
There are some very nice Bins to be had in your price range.
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

If Hans won't mind (or might benefit from) a quick aside: I thought about buying my wife a harness when I bought her binoculars last year, but I wasn't sure whether she'd appreciate it. Do those of you familiar with harnesses know, do women also find them comfortable to use? Maybe I'll get her one after the fact. Thanks!

Gerry
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Andy Avram
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Andy Avram »

Gerry, as a park naturalist my field is mostly women, many of whom have binoculars. Most of these women that do a lot of bird watching always have harnesses for their binoculars.
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Hi all,

thank you SO much for all the wonderful tips! Fantastic!!! I printed them all and will take them now to my local binoc shop. I'll let you know what I'll come up with.
as a park naturalist my field is mostly women
Whatever "park" that is, I wanna work there :-)
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infidel
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by infidel »

Hans Breuer (twoton) wrote:Hi all,

thank you SO much for all the wonderful tips! Fantastic!!! I printed them all and will take them now to my local binoc shop. I'll let you know what I'll come up with.
as a park naturalist my field is mostly women
Whatever "park" that is, I wanna work there :-)
+1
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Well, fellers, I'm back from shopping, all kitted out with a pair of binocs none of you have ever heard of :-)

A long-time member of the Malaysia Nature Society's Birding Group called me and offered me one of those (8x42):

http://mikebirder.multiply.com/reviews/item/24

He had bought a whole slew of them for the group and had one left. After testing the thing for most of the morning (watching tourists, birds and monitor lizards along Kuching's Waterfront, as well as hunting geckos in a dark public toilet - great light yield and close focus!- a printout of this thread always in hand), I concluded that for five hundred bucks, ten years warranty, 15% discount and a free harness thrown in, I could do much worse....

By the way, this is why I need them:

Sarawak—a neglected birding destination in Malaysia (PDF)
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

Sounds like you got a great deal on a great pair of binoculars, Hans! :thumb:

Thanks for the advice on the harness, Andy!

In truth, the biological sciences in general are gradually being taken over by women. Vet school classes (not a biological science strictly speaking, but close enough) in particular are now overwhelmingly female. It's just fine with me, too, though as a happily married man I can't enjoy it as much as I otherwise might. ;)

Gerry
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by reptilist »

I like the close focus on those.
:beer:
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Curtis Hart
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Curtis Hart »

I haven't read all the responses, but I have a pair of Nikon Monarch 10x42s. They have taken a beating, spent some time in the bottom of a river, and still work great.



Curtis

I guess I was a little late. Good luck with your new binoculars!
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gbin
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by gbin »

Curtis Hart wrote:... spent some time in the bottom of a river, and still work great.
That's quite a testimonial, Curtis! Were you using them for fish watching? :)

Sounds like I'm the only person who's had a problem with Nikon binoculars not being moisture-proof as promised. Glad to hear it.

Gerry
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by kurakura »

Hans... Borneo also got me into birding, birds are degenerated reptiles afterall:). From my experience birding is better in Sabah, maybe due to the many local guides that have birding as a hobby aswell.
Now you need to consider a Canon 300mm L f4 lens with a 1.4x teleconverter to double as a birding/herping lens - a cool lens I have just gotten my hands on myself, far more portable than my old Tokina 300mm f2.8, and close focus at 1.5meters very nice for frogs and lizards.
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Hi kurakura,

thanks for the tip! However, I will not photograph birds unless they show themselves to me in a ready-to-shoot pose. I have no patience for hide-ambushing, and no strength for huge lenses and tripods. Whatever my trusty Sigma 70-300 mm can shoot, I will shoot, but I'm not gear-queer enough for bird photography.

As to guides, the Kuching branch of the Malaysia Nature Society is a bunch of hardcore birders who will happily spread their wisdom for free :-)

Thanks again!
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by millside »

great reads to all.
I checked out a pair of nikon monarchs yesterday.
they only had a pair of 10 by 42. I wanted to compare it to the 8 x 42.
I checked the specs and they are almost identical as far as weight .
could someone tell me how much of a difference the 2 would be.
by the way, the 10 x 42 had a nice feel to them . I liked it, and will probably go with one or the other.

I have some large binocs like 10x 50s. and they are way to heavy to find stuff in the trees. and the hand shake is to much with out setting up a tripod for them.
thanks.
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by chrish »

millside,

With more powerful binoculars, it isn't just the weight you need to consider. Larger power binoculars have a narrower field of view. That means if you are trying to find a bird moving around a tree, you are getting a larger amount of the tree in your field of view with lower power binocs. Therefore, you are more likely to have included the region of the tree that actually contains the bird. Or another way of looking at it, if you are using higher powered binoculars, it is more likely that a bird will be outside your field of view when you look through the binoculars.

Experienced birders learn the hand/eye coordination to put their binocs straight on the bird regardless of magnification, but it is one of the things that frustrates new birders and one way to exacerbate it is to have binocs that are more powerful than necessary.

Chris
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Re: How to choose birding binoculars?

Post by millside »

Thanks cherish. Going to go with the 8 x 42.
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