Whooping Crane Question & photos

All things winged.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

Alright so I wanted to ask the opinion of some bird savvy folk about an idea thats popped into my head... Its kind of silly, feel free to laugh or tell me if its a bad idea, thats why I am asking.

So I know of an general area where a whooping crane is hanging out, i saw him/her 2 weeks ago and then yesterday I visited again and it was pretty much in the exact same place. I'd love to get some photos but the issue is its super skittish and in a wide open area where it can see pretty far in all directions. I tried approaching behind a line of trees while crouching down but it spotted me and was visibly and audibly agitated and began to retreat so I backed away.

Now I wish I could afford a super lens that I could get some shots with, but it just so happens I dont have $10,000 sitting around and if I did have $10k i wouldnt be spending it on a lens either. I have my 400mm and thats it. That leaves the other option which is to get closer. So I started thinking about how do I responsibly do this? Setting up a blind, maybe... but its kind of an open area and it might be tough predicting where the crane will be in that area. But then I had another idea, if it works its almost easier than the blind. Many of us have seen photos of the suits people wear while working with whooping cranes, the suit is usually a billowy white thing that breaks up the human shape, sometimes there is an appendage resembling a cranes head. If you have not seen such a suit the first photo at this link shows an example.
https://www.savingcranes.org/raising-cranes.html

My thoughts are as follows.... It would be really easy to make a suit like that out of a random white sheet which I already have around the house. This might allow me to approach the cranes more closely without disturbing them and Id potentially be able to photograph the cranes from the suit. Now im not saying I want to get as close as the biologist in the photo in the link, I certainly dont. I have a 400 mm lens and I intend to use it, 40 ft or so would be more than close enough but I was thinking more like 60-80.

Now here is why im posting on here... The whooping crane is a sensitive species and I dont want to disturb it. The subjects welfare is more important than any photo. The crane isn't nesting or anything, if it was I wouldn't even consider this. But I wanted to get some opinions and thoughts on whether this would be an ecologically responsible thing to do? I don't see how this would harm the bird, if my costume wasn't convincing enough and was stressing the crane then well Id just stop approaching and move away. So tell me if im missing something. If someone says its a bad idea and has a reasonable explanation as to why then thats it, i wont consider it any further.

Thanks for bearing with me. Thoughts/opinions?

Here are some heavily cropped sub-par images I was able to get. 2 different cranes in 2 different areas, I'd attempt to approach the one in the first area if I do this, the second one is in a pretty unapproachable area.
Image
An 800 mm lens would have been nice...
Image
User avatar
Andy Avram
Posts: 897
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:37 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Andy Avram »

Why it might work: That crane was in all likelihood raised by people in giant white suits. It shouldn't associate a white suit with danger.

Why it might not be a good idea: It is a federally listed bird, one of the most endangered in the world, and technically it could be considered "harassment", and you may find yourself in a heap of trouble.

Effects on the bird: If it was a one time attempt the bird would probably just fly away and come back later or ignore you entirely, but I doubt it would cause too much stress on it.
User avatar
cbernz
Posts: 547
Joined: March 16th, 2011, 12:28 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by cbernz »

I don't know what effect flushing would have on the crane, but I have a pretty good idea of the effect it would have on birders. Snowy Owls are not at all endangered, but there was much fighting and bad blood this winter over people getting too close to them, including people posting photos of the offenders in an attempt to publicly shame them. If the birding world had a 10 Most Wanted list, approaching a Whooping Crane in a white suit would definitely get you on it.
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

Thanks for the feedback guys.
Why it might work: That crane was in all likelihood raised by people in giant white suits. It shouldn't associate a white suit with danger.
Yeah, this was my thought process as well.
Why it might not be a good idea: It is a federally listed bird, one of the most endangered in the world, and technically it could be considered "harassment", and you may find yourself in a heap of trouble.
If the birding world had a 10 Most Wanted list, approaching a Whooping Crane in a white suit would definitely get you on it.
Sounds like pretty compelling reasons not to do it, especially the first!

The bird is in an isolated area and I have visited 3 times now, first time 2 weeks ago and then twice on Saturday; once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I haven't seen a single other person out there in those trips. Thought this was worth mentioning as its not like I would don a white suit infront of a throng of enraged birders and march out.

But yeah, now that im not as excited about a new idea and have had some more time to mull it over. I reckon its not the best idea to screw with an endangered species in any way, like you guys said I still don't think it would harm the bird at all or stress it unduly but why even risk it. i'll leave the crane in peace, or maybe just use the car as a blind and sit in it for a few hours and hope it wanders over in my direction.
User avatar
Crimson King
Posts: 337
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:31 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Crimson King »

I dunno. Clearly a banded one migrating north. Do you have any clearer of his bands? That's an i.d. you can see what group he belongs to and what year/age. etc.
I wouldn't get too close for the reasons mentioned here already. He doesn't need any more confusion and stress imo.
Thanks for the photos!

Maybe ask the guys at operation migration about any legalities?

:Mark
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

Clearly a banded one migrating north. Do you have any clearer of his bands? That's an i.d. you can see what group he belongs to and what year/age. etc.
I actually do have some shots where the bands are more visible. Is there a database I can access to ID the individuals?

1st bird: L-green, red R-red, green, white
Image

2nd bird: L-red, white, green R-green, red
Image
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

So I actually found the database. http://www.bringbackthecranes.org/PopList4March2014.pdf

And I was able to ID the cranes I saw, I'm stupidly excited about it. Introducing Nougat and Grasshopper!
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/crane/ ... 1118D.html
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/crane/ ... 1116D.html
User avatar
Crimson King
Posts: 337
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:31 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Crimson King »

You saw your reactions/responses over on operation migration, right?

http://operationmigration.org/InTheField/

:Mark
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

You saw your reactions/responses over on operation migration, right?
Yikes, no I had not seen that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention so I can defend myself.

I wrote up a lengthy response to the post and several comments and posted it, lets see if it gets past moderation.

Incase it does not, and anymore people follow the link from the story here. Here is what I wrote:
Hi all,
I'm the guy that asked this question in the first place. To those of you who calmly and reasonably responded I appreciate your sensibility. As for the lengthy response above, it raises some good points and I would have loved to be informed about them and it would have helped my understanding of these beautiful creatures and why it was not a wise idea to attempt to approach any closer. However I did not receive anything of the sort, I received an email stating which cranes the individuals were and was told not to approach them in costume or without, the entire thing fit in one line of text. I wasn’t told that there would be more explanation on the blog or that this matter would be discussed, if it hadn’t been for a 3rd party bringing it to my attention I would never have known. This leads me to believe that the lengthy response above was fabricated for your benefit, not mine. This is ironic as the entire thing is addressed and written to me, as if I am meant to be reading it. Nor does it state on this blog that I had already said of my own accord that the info provided by my peers on the forum showed me that it was an unwise decision. In this case, I find this cherry-picking by the authors of this blog dishonest and reprehensible. They seized the opportunity to deride me but did nothing to educate me, this behavior frankly appalls me. The future of conservation is in large based on outreach and OM must know this, so in the future I suggest a more tactful approach. I wish the organization and the people involved all the best for the sake of the cranes, but I do hope they will choose to be more tactful in the future.
Kind Regards,
Anton
User avatar
Andy Avram
Posts: 897
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:37 am
Location: NE Ohio

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Andy Avram »

cbernz wrote:I don't know what effect flushing would have on the crane, but I have a pretty good idea of the effect it would have on birders. Snowy Owls are not at all endangered, but there was much fighting and bad blood this winter over people getting too close to them, including people posting photos of the offenders in an attempt to publicly shame them. If the birding world had a 10 Most Wanted list, approaching a Whooping Crane in a white suit would definitely get you on it.
Apparently even thinking such a thought will put you on the list too. It is on Operation Migration's Facebook page too with a bunch of typical computer discussion responders - namely people who fail to critically read what was written.

Anton,
While you now have been informed by this herping world, and rudely by the birding world, I wouldn't sweat it. These things come and go, and your worst offense is thinking of a novel solution to possibly photograph a bird without disturbing it, and willing to give up on the idea entirely if it wasn't possible. Not too bad in my book.

Let the naysayers piss off.

Edited ~~~apparently they took the post off Facebook.
User avatar
gbin
Posts: 2292
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 4:28 pm

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by gbin »

Hmmm, I wonder how many of today's most aggressive bird defenders were yesterday's (or perhaps are even still today's) most obnoxious bird listers. Over the years I've seen more than a few birders who were, shall we say, rather too avid in their pursuit of their hobby. Pushing other people and even knocking other people's expensive equipment out of their way in their haste to get a better view of their quarry, getting into squabbles over parking spaces at particularly popular birding spots and almost running people over with their cars in their haste to get from one such spot to another, crowding nesting birds to the point where the birds obviously react to the intrusion, playing bird calls from backpacked audio equipment at volumes loud enough to startle wildlife (and other outdoor enthusiasts) a long ways away, etc. Fortunately the great majority of birders aren't like this, just as the great majority aren't the kind of people who berate others for innocently asking questions/seeking advice about how to proceed in some aspect of the hobby.

I'm with Andy, Anton. Don't waste your time on them.

Gerry
User avatar
chrish
Posts: 3295
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:14 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by chrish »

Agreed, don't bother defending yourself in that group of crane huggers.

BTW - did anyone read the story at this link about the guy busted for photographing Snail Kite nests - http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florid ... z2uX15jnzC

Of course, why anyone would care about a bird as trashy as a Snail Kite is beyond me. Go south into their real range where they are common birds. They may be endangered in the US but certainly not over most of their normal range.
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Whooping Crane Question & photos

Post by Antonsrkn »

Thanks guys,

Yeah I won't let it bother me, initially it bothered me a bit but the feeling has passed. One aspect that bothered considerably is that a few of the FB posts and blog posts thank OM and Heather Ray for educating me and as one comment put it help me become a better conservationist.... In the blog post Heather Ray makes it seem like she reached out to me and provided an explanation albeit in a somewhat condescending manner. Yet this is totally false the message that appears on the blog addressed to me was never sent to me, nor did anyone involved on their end notify me of it. What it comes down to is that they chose to publicly ridicule me behind my back and misrepresent themselves as having educated me.

Whats more is that I typed up lengthy responses to most of the comments on the blog, explaining my stance and clearing up misunderstandings. I attempted to post those but I was informed they would have to pass moderation first, that's ok as I made sure to be respectful in my responses despite certain comments directed at me being far from that. However, none of my responses made it past the moderators. I took screenshots of my responses as they were awaiting moderation on the blog, I have read them over once again and there is no reason they shouldn't have been posted. The people running the blog over at operation migration feel like its ok for them to publicly ridicule me and for disparaging comments to be made about me, however apparently they do not think its ok for me to defend myself and explain when someone has a misconception. These tactics are underhanded at best.

When posting the blog entry Heather Ray engaged in cherry picking behavior in that she never once mentioned that in my following posts I said things like: "But yeah, now that im not as excited about a new idea and have had some more time to mull it over. I reckon its not the best idea to screw with an endangered species in any way, like you guys said I still don't think it would harm the bird at all or stress it unduly but why even risk it." At the time of the blog post on OM I had already posted the above response. She also posts things like "It appalls me that you are asking the above question and it saddens me that a closer photograph is, in your opinion, more valuable to you than a Whooping crane in the wild." This casts me in a completely different light than my question, where I stressed that the well being of the crane was first and foremost in my mind. I find the tactics she has used dishonest.

Publicly attacking me behind my back, fabricating a response that was never sent to me, providing an incomplete story by ignoring certain information, allowing disparaging comments about myself and preventing me from defending myself or refuting anything that was said. This is disgusting behavior by Heather Ray and Operation Migration, I would have expected people who work to protect an endangered resource such as the Whooping crane to exhibit more integrity with their dealings with the public, instead they chose to be dishonest and weaselly. I can only hope that they treat the cranes better than the public; me, whom they represented unfairly and all the viewers of their page who they knowingly lied to by providing an incomplete story and blocking my attempts at clarification.

It does turn me off to the world of birding a bit that people would behave this way, but there are bad apples in every hobby, and I do remember that some of the comments on FB and the blog were made by reasonable people who sensibly stated that education rather than public lambasting was the solution or that I was just asking a question.

But yeah I'm done with it, I asked a question, they chose to blow it out of proportion... the end
Post Reply