Illegal to collect?

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Ted
Posts: 312
Joined: December 30th, 2010, 10:02 am
Location: SoCal and Cape Cod

Illegal to collect?

Post by Ted » May 1st, 2012, 6:34 pm

Ok, so my friend needs help and I need yours to help her. What happened was that her family went for a walk last weekend , and came home with about 15 California Newts and a garter snake. First of all, is this even legal? Second, if it is, how do you keep care of newts? Third, if it isn't is it fine to release them back where they were found? or is there something else she would need to do? thanks for all help.

RobertH
Posts: 1834
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:38 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by RobertH » May 1st, 2012, 6:45 pm

Ted, unfortunately it was not legal for them to take the newts and gartersnake. Both species are protected species of special concern (SSC).

At least legally, releasing any captured herps back into the wild is also illegal. The reason for this rule is to prevent any diseases picked up in captivity from spreading among populations in the wild. Especially with aquatic species, this appears to be a real concern.

So, I am frankly not sure what advice to give you and your friends. Use your common sense, I guess. Perhaps most importantly use this as an opportunity to educate them - and as many other people as possible - about the legal and also practical ramifications of capturing wild animals without even knowing what they are.

Sorry not to be able to give you a more helpful answer.

Robert

User avatar
Mike Waters
Posts: 835
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:37 am
Location: Bakersfield CA

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Mike Waters » May 1st, 2012, 7:02 pm

The legal limit on CA newts is 4. If they were in a state park then the limit ison 0. As long as the garter wasn't a San Fransisco garter then that is OK.
do not let them go back into the wild. Why in the world would someone want that many newts?

User avatar
Ted
Posts: 312
Joined: December 30th, 2010, 10:02 am
Location: SoCal and Cape Cod

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Ted » May 1st, 2012, 7:08 pm

Thanks for the help. Happily I can say that my friend immediately realized the problems, and is seriously worried. I was pretty sure it was illegal, and now I'm stuck. They were caught in a state park, which I also immediately recognized as bad news. So I guess my question now is, what to do with them? :?

PS: No it was not a San Francisco Garter, and I have absolutely no idea why they wanted so many newts. I guess they just thought they were cool :(

User avatar
Mike Waters
Posts: 835
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:37 am
Location: Bakersfield CA

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Mike Waters » May 1st, 2012, 7:11 pm

Keep them as pets give them to friends, donate then to a zoo, destroy them, but don't release them back into the wild.

cerbatrosy
Posts: 72
Joined: August 14th, 2010, 11:38 am

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by cerbatrosy » May 1st, 2012, 7:37 pm

The newts are ez to care for
and make interesting pets..
Hate to see them destroyed..

User avatar
El Garia
Posts: 720
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 3:39 pm
Location: Santa Clara Co. , CA

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by El Garia » May 1st, 2012, 7:51 pm

Ted,

If you have even the slightest inkling that someone else may let one of these newts back into the wild, someday, don't give them the newts. Mr. Waters is correct, regarding their release. Please, don't let your emotions affect what is the ecologically sound thing to do. Best of luck to you, Ted.

User avatar
Joseph S.
Posts: 540
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 4:21 pm

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Joseph S. » May 1st, 2012, 8:33 pm

Don't know if it helps but I'd be willing to take a few of them if they end up needing homes(provided it is ok for me to do so).

RobertH
Posts: 1834
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:38 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by RobertH » May 1st, 2012, 8:38 pm

Mike,

I don't understand why you say that it's OK to take coast range newts and two-stripe gartersnakes. Both are SSC and as such shouldn't even be handled, much less captured and taken, as I understand it.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/habcon/info/herp_ssc.pdf

Or am I missing something?

EDIT: It gets more confusing. DFG does in fact allow the taking of coast range newts (except in state parks and such):

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/Fresh ... c5_05.html

But DFG does not list two-striped gartersnakes among reptiles that may be taken, though it does list a variety of other gartersnakes. I.e., DFG seems to have intentionally left out T. hammondi.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/Fresh ... c5_60.html

What does this mean? I guess SSC doesn't automatically mean the species is protected. I wish I could find some rules on the legality of handling/capturing/taking SSC. So far, I've had no luck. Does anyone have a link? Fundad? Mike? Todd?

I think we ought to be able to figure this out once and for all, so that we can give coherent answers when asked by other members. This is at least the third time I recall that the issue of SSCs has come up.

And Ted: I am assuming we are talking about a state park here in Southern California, correct? If not, then maybe the gartersnake is not a two-striped gartersnake and maybe no SSC is involved at all. But regardless, we need to figure out what the answer to the SSC issue is for the future.

Thanks,

Robert

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by hellihooks » May 2nd, 2012, 5:09 am

There is one other option, when it comes to protected species. Typically, when DFG confiscates protected species, they will destroy it rather than releasing it... unless they know of an individual or institution that has what's called a salvage permit, typically held by educators, doing herp Ed. talks.
This allows the person to use the herp for ed talks rather than be destroyed... but I don't think you can just give the herp directly to the educator... it has to go through DFG, and I don't know if you can turn in an 'accidentially' collected herp without running the risk of trouble.
I'll see if I can check into it. jim

User avatar
Ted
Posts: 312
Joined: December 30th, 2010, 10:02 am
Location: SoCal and Cape Cod

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Ted » May 2nd, 2012, 5:32 am

Thanks for all of the replies. Rest assured, releasing them is the last thing I intend to do, but it just doesn't feel right telling them "you shouldn't have taken them but you can keep them anyway." Also, my friend was nice enough to take pictures of the animals, which I can say are 100% Two-striped Garter and they are definitely Coast Range Newts.

Robert Hansen
Posts: 172
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Robert Hansen » May 2nd, 2012, 5:42 am

As noted, both Coast Range Newts (Monterey Co. southward) and Two-striped Gartersnakes are Special Concern Species and thus are hands off. Although neither enjoys any formal protected status, they have a zero bag limit. Some coastal drainage populations of Taricha are extremely small (on the order of 15-20 reproducing adults) and thus are particularly sensitive. I can't offer suggestions for what to do with the animals beyond what's been offered, though a nature center/educational outlet seems reasonable with DFG blessing.

Cheers,

BH

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 6:02 am

5.05. Amphibians.

(a) Only the following amphibians may be taken under the authority of a sportfishing license, subject to the restrictions in this section. No amphibians may be taken from ecological reserves designated by the commission in Section 630 or from state parks, or national parks or monuments.
(1) Pacific giant salamander (Dicamptodon tenebrosus)
(2) California giant salamander (Dicamptodon ensatus)
(3) Southern Seep (Torrent) Salamander (Rhyacotriton variegatus)
(4) Rough-skinned newt (Taricha granulosa)
(5) California newt (Taricha torosa)
(6) Red-bellied newt (Taricha rivularis)
(7) Northwestern salamander (Ambystoma gracile)
(8) Long-toed salamander (Ambystoma macrodactylum), except Santa Cruz long-toed salamander (Ambystoma macrodactylum croceum)
(9) Black salamander (Aneides flavipunctatus)
(10) Clouded salamander (Aneides ferreus)
(11) Arboreal salamander (Aneides lugubris)
(12) California slender salamander (Batrachoseps attenuatus): See Special Closure (f)(1)
(13) Pacific slender salamander (Batrachoseps pacificus): See Special Closure (f)(1)
(14) Relictual slender salamander (Batrachoseps relictus): See Special Closure (f)(1)
(15) Dunn’s salamander (Plethodon dunni)
(16) Ensatina salamander (Ensatina eschscholtzii)
(17) Western toad (Bufo boreas)
(18) Woodhouse’s toad (Bufo woodhouseii)
(19) Red-spotted toad (Bufo punctatus)
(20) Great Plains toad (Bufo cognatus)
(21) Great Basin spadefoot toad (Scaphiopus (Spea) intermontana)
(22) Couch’s spadefoot toad (Scaphiopus (Spea) couchii)
(23) California chorus frog (Pseudacris (Hyla) cadaverina)
(24) Pacific chorus frog (Pseudacris (Hyla) regilla)
(25) Northern leopard frog (Rana pipiens)
(26) Southern leopard frog (Rana yutricularia)
(27) Rio Grande leopard frog (Rana berlandieri)
(28) Bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana)
(b) Open season: All year. The season closures in Chapter 3 (District Trout and Salmon District General Regulations and Special Regulations) do not apply to fishing for amphibians with methods other than hook and line (see sections 7.00 and 7.50(a)(2)).
(c) Limit: The daily bag and possession limit for each of the amphibian species listed in subsection (a), above, is four except for bullfrogs, which have no daily bag or possession limit.
(d) Hours: Amphibians may be taken at any time of day or night.
(e) Methods of take:
(1) Amphibians may be taken only by hand, hand-held dip net, or hook and line, except bullfrogs may also be taken by lights, spears, gigs, grabs, paddles, bow and arrow, or fishing tackle.
(2) It is unlawful to use any method or means of collecting that involves breaking apart of rocks, granite flakes, logs, or other shelters in or under which amphibians may be found.
(f) Special closures:
(1) No slender salamanders (Batrachoseps spp.) may be taken from Inyo and Mono counties and from the Santa Rosa Mountains, Riverside County.

5.60. Reptiles.

(a) General Provisions: Only the following reptiles may be taken under the authority of a sportfishing license, subject to the restrictions in this section. The limit for each of the species listed below is two, unless otherwise provided. Limit, as used in this section, means daily bag and possession limit. No reptiles shall be taken from ecological reserves designated by the commission in Section 630 or from state parks, or national parks or monuments.
(b) No sportfishing license is required for the sport take of any rattlesnake.
(1) Painted turtle (Chrysemys picta): Limit: No limit.
(2) Slider Turtle (Pseudemys (Trachemys) scripta): Limit: No limit.
(3) Spiny softshell turtle (Trionyx spiniferus): Limit: No limit.
(4) Western banded gecko (Coleonyx variegatus)
(5) Desert iguana (Dipsosaurus dorsalis)
(6) Chuckwalla (Sauromalus obesus)
(7) Zebra-tailed lizard (Callisaurus draconoides)
(8) Colorado Desert fringe-toed lizard (Uma notata)
(9) Mojave fringe-toed lizard (Uma scoparia)
(10) Desert spiny lizard (Sceloporus magister)
(11) Granite spiny lizard (Sceloporus orcutti)
(12) Western fence lizard (Sceloporus occidentalis): Limit: Species No. 12-16 have a limit of twenty-five (25) in the aggregate
(13) Sagebrush lizard (Sceloporus graciosus): Limit: Species No. 12-16 have a limit of twenty-five (25) in the aggregate
(14) Side-blotched lizard (Uta stansburiana): Limit: Species No. 12-16 have a limit of twenty-five (25) in the aggregate
(15) Western skink (Eumeces skiltonianus): Limit: Species No. 12-16 have a limit of twenty-five (25) in the aggregate
(16) Desert night lizard (Xantusia vigilis): Limit: Species No. 12-16 have a limit of twenty-five (25) in the aggregate
(17) Long-tailed brush lizard (Urosaurus graciosus)
(18) Tree lizard (Urosaurus ornatus)
(19) Small-scaled lizard (Urosaurus microscutatus)
(20) Desert horned lizard (Phrynosoma platyrhinos)
(21) Short-horned lizard (Phrynosoma douglassii)
(22) Great basin collared lizard (Crotaphytus bicintores)
(23) Banded rock lizard (Petrosaurus mearnsi)
(24) Baja California collared lizard (Crotaphytus vestigum)
(25) Long-nosed leopard lizard (Gambelia wislizenii)
(26) Gilbert’s skink (Eumeces gilberti)
(27) Western whiptail (Cnemidophorus tigris)
(28) Southern alligator lizard (Elgaria multicarinata)
(29) Northern alligator lizard (Elgaria coerulea)
(30) California legless lizard (Anniella pulchra), except black legless lizard (Anniella pulchra nigra): Limit: One (1)
(31) Rubber boa (Charina bottae), except southern rubber boa (Charina bottae umbratica)
(32) Rosy boa (Lichanura trivirgata)
(33) Ringneck snake (Diadophis punctatus)
(34) Sharp-tailed snake (Contia tenuis)
(35) Spotted leaf-nosed snake (Phyllorhynchus decurtatus)
(36) Racer (Coluber constrictor)
(37) Coachwhip (Masticophis flagellum), except San Joaquin Coachwhip (Masticophis flagellum ruddocki)
(38) Striped whipsnake (Masticophis taeniatus)
(39) California whipsnake (striped racer) (Masticophis lateralis), except Alameda whipsnake (Masticophis lateralis euryxanthus)
(40) Western patch-nosed snake (Salvadora hexalepis).
(41) Glossy snake (Arizona elegans)
(42) Gopher snake (Pituophis melanoleucus): Limit: Four (4)
(43) Common kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula): Limit: Four (4)
(44) California mountain kingsnake (Lampropeltis zonata), except San Diego mountain kingsnake (Lampropeltis zonata pulchra) : Limit: One (1). Special Closure: No California mountain kingsnakes shall be taken in Orange and San Diego counties, and in Los Angeles County west of Interstate 5.
(45) Long-nosed snake (Rhinocheilus lecontei)
(46) Common garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis), except San Francisco garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia): Special Closure: No common garter snakes shall be taken in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Diego, and Ventura counties.
(47) Terrestrial garter snake (Thamnophis elegans)
(48) Western aquatic (Sierra) garter snake (Thamnophis couchii)
(49) Pacific coast aquatic garter snake (Thamnophis atratus)
(50) Northwestern garter snake (Thamnophis ordinoides)
(51) Checkered garter snake (Thamnophis marcianus)
(52) Ground snake (Sonora semiannulata)
(53) Western shovel-nosed snake (Chionactis occipitalis)
(54) California black-headed snake (Tantilla planiceps)
(55) Southwestern black-headed snake (Tantilla hobartsmithi)
(56) Lyre snake (Trimorphodon biscutatus)
(57) Night snake (Hypsiglena torquata)
(58) Western blind snake (Leptotyphlops humilis)
(c) Open season: All year.
(d) Hours: Reptiles may be taken at any time of day or night.
(e) Methods of take:
(1) Reptiles may be taken only by hand, except as provided in subsections (e)(2) and (3) below, or by the following hand-operated devices:
(A) Lizard nooses.
(B) Snake tongs.
(C) Snake hooks.
(2) Rattlesnakes may be taken by any method.
(3) Turtles may be taken by hook and line. Fishing methods described in Section 2.00 apply to the take of spiny softshell turtles, slider turtles and painted turtles.
(4) It is unlawful to use any method or means of collecting that involves breaking apart of rocks, granite flakes, logs or other shelters in or under which reptiles may be found.

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 6:08 am

I don't know why people reference the species of concern list for regulations?

Is there some kind of new regulations I am unaware of or unable to find?


Species of concern doesn't always equal uncollecatable unless something has changed.

Fundad

Robert Hansen
Posts: 172
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Robert Hansen » May 2nd, 2012, 6:51 am

Fundad wrote:I don't know why people reference the species of concern list for regulations?

Is there some kind of new regulations I am unaware of or unable to find?


Species of concern doesn't always equal uncollecatable unless something has changed.

Fundad
Brian: You are correct. SSC inclusion is largely irrelevant except for perhaps understanding why any particular species is not listed in the sport fishing regs. Basically, if the species is NOT listed in the sports fishing regs it cannot be "taken."

BH

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 7:01 am

Thanks Bob, thats what I thought, but all the ssc list talk got me questioning myself.. :lol:

Hope to see you Saturday

Fundad

User avatar
Kent VanSooy
Posts: 1100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:51 am
Location: Oceanside

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Kent VanSooy » May 2nd, 2012, 7:11 am

Yeah, the SSC list can seem contradictory - my favorite example are ruber - it's an SSC, but may be "taken" by any method, and you don't even need a fishing license to do so.

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by hellihooks » May 2nd, 2012, 7:24 am

Kent VanSooy wrote:Yeah, the SSC list can seem contradictory - my favorite example are ruber - it's an SSC, but may be "taken" by any method, and you don't even need a fishing license to do so.
Yeah... you're free to kill one... just don't pick them up...DOH! I'm trying to figure out if my buddy can use Rubers for rattlesnake avoidance training. He prefers to use the type of crote found in the area he holds the clinics at, and has quite a few 'down the hill' clinics shedualed this year... :? jim

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 7:36 am

just don't pick them up...DOH!
Where does it say that??

Fundad

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by hellihooks » May 2nd, 2012, 7:52 am

Ruber are listed as a SSC... therefore... no touch? jim

RobertH
Posts: 1834
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:38 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by RobertH » May 2nd, 2012, 8:11 am

Jim, that's just the point of this whole discussion - not all SSC are actually protected by law. Rubers are not:
(b) No sportfishing license is required for the sport take of any rattlesnake.
Should they be? Heck, yes, they should be. So should Western Patchnnose Snakes, another SSC, which is also on the list of snakes that may be taken legally.

Robert

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by hellihooks » May 2nd, 2012, 8:29 am

Logic is rarely the driving force behind the establishment of rules... The SSC list almost seems to be a lower-level recommendation, to be hopefully followed, if not superseded by an actual law... :roll: jim

RobertH
Posts: 1834
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:38 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by RobertH » May 2nd, 2012, 9:29 am

Exactly my thoughts, Jim.

But at least we seem to have achieved some clarity on what the designation of SSC means - legally, it means nothing whatsoever. All that matters, legally, is whether a herp - SSC or non-SSC - is listed on one of the above DFG list. If it is, it's legal to take it (except where noted on the list), and if it isn't, it's not legal to do so.

Practically, we should, of course, still treat SSC as what they are - sensitive species. At least to me, the current NAFHA policy of no collecting and no handling of SSC therefore seems appropriate.

Robert

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 10:00 am

I don't think Ruber need protection from a bag limit.. There are widespread and VERY common. Not to mention Much of their habitat is Protected, (including LARGE no take zones), And even furthermore so much of their habitat is inaccessible for the most part.

JMO..

I have yet to see anyone provide actual wording or regulation that says SSC can not be touched..

Fundad

User avatar
El Garia
Posts: 720
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 3:39 pm
Location: Santa Clara Co. , CA

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by El Garia » May 2nd, 2012, 10:21 am

Fundad wrote:
I have yet to see anyone provide actual wording or regulation that says SSC can not be touched..

Fundad
No provision exists, regarding the handling/take of SSC. Said designation is applied to both protected and non-protected species, which the state deems 'sensitive'.

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 10:32 am

Said designation is applied to both protected and non-protected species, which the state deems 'sensitive'.


Report this post
??? I am not clear on what your saying here? (I am a little slow sometimes :lol: )

Fundad

User avatar
El Garia
Posts: 720
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 3:39 pm
Location: Santa Clara Co. , CA

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by El Garia » May 2nd, 2012, 10:41 am

Just saying that SSC status is applied to both protected and non-protected species. SSC designation,in itself, has no legal bearing in regards to take/possession.

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Fundad » May 2nd, 2012, 11:06 am

Just saying that SSC status is applied to both protected and non-protected species. SSC designation,in itself, has no legal bearing in regards to take/possession.
:thumb: Thank you for Clarifying..

And Agreed..

Fundad

User avatar
Steve Bledsoe
Posts: 1801
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:14 am
Location: San Clemente, CA www.swfieldherp.com
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Steve Bledsoe » May 2nd, 2012, 12:18 pm

Seems to me that the law is pretty clear. If it's not on the TAKE LIST, it can't be taken.
As far as I know, California does not publish a NO TAKE LIST.

If Brian's post above is the latest DFG take list, then it's legal to take anything on the list under the bag limits and restrictions spelled out on it.

It's my understanding that the SSC list exists only to bring attention to species that are potentially vulnerable and need to be monitored to avoid making the Threatened or Endangered lists. The vulnerability of a certain species may be because of limited natural habitat, habitat vulnerability, historical habitat loss, the presence of threatening invasive species, etc. There are several reasons a species may be on the SSC list, none of which may be suggesting that the species is rare.

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by hellihooks » May 2nd, 2012, 1:02 pm

And I believe that our (Nafha) choice to discourage pics of folks holding SSC's stems from our respect for Jeff Lemm, ostensibly the founder of Nafha, who wisely decided that for the good of Nafha's reputation and ethos, even the appearance of any impropriety should be avoided.... :thumb: jim

User avatar
Kent VanSooy
Posts: 1100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:51 am
Location: Oceanside

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Kent VanSooy » May 2nd, 2012, 3:27 pm

I think a lot of confusion results because most of the SSC's are not allowed to be possessed (and possession includes any kind of handling). As far as I know, handling ruber is legal (but perhaps not so wise!). SSC's range from being a federally-endangered species (example arroyo toad) to "taking" at will (ruber).

The SSC designation is essentially a risk-assessment: each species is rated in a number of categories (for example, has their habitat been fragmented, are their numbers currently in decline). One of the reasons ruber is on the list is because one of the categories is area occupied within the state, and since ruber occupy only a very small portion of the state, they receive a high at-risk designation for that category.

Take a look at http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/nongame/ssc/index.html for more information.

This is the kind of stuff involvement with NAFHA will help you learn! And even if you don't agree with them, understanding the reasons the regulations were established is the first step toward helping to make them better (which was why NAFHA provided data to the CA DFG to use in re-evaluating their SSC list, we realized how little data they had in some cases).

User avatar
Brian Hubbs
Posts: 4733
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:41 am
Location: "Buy My Books"-land

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Brian Hubbs » May 2nd, 2012, 3:57 pm

Releasing the garter is no problem. You have 48 hours to do so. I know of no garter pops that suffer from released snakes with pathogens. That seems to be a frog thing.

Here are some SSCs that are abundant and should be off the list (but i think there is federal money if they are on the list):

Two-Striped garter
Patchnose
ruber
granite night lizard
Black legless lizard
San Diego Mtn King
western pond turtle

Don't believe everything the "experts" say, especially the Dept. These animals are very plentiful and deserve a small bag limit.

User avatar
Ted
Posts: 312
Joined: December 30th, 2010, 10:02 am
Location: SoCal and Cape Cod

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Ted » May 2nd, 2012, 7:25 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:Releasing the garter is no problem. You have 48 hours to do so. I know of no garter pops that suffer from released snakes with pathogens. That seems to be a frog thing.

Here are some SSCs that are abundant and should be off the list (but i think there is federal money if they are on the list):

Two-Striped garter
Patchnose
ruber
granite night lizard
Black legless lizard
San Diego Mtn King
western pond turtle

Don't believe everything the "experts" say, especially the Dept. These animals are very plentiful and deserve a small bag limit.
So... what if it's been more like 100 hrs?

Here's the news as of today: the newts have been given to friends and family of the original collecting family. The garter is still with the family, so I need to know what to do with it. It's been with them from at least Sunday, possibly saturday. I would be very worried at releasing it now. However, I would very much like to find another option then letting the family keep it, since I think they may get tired of it fast.

Also, I am a little glad to say that the newts were taken from an area with a very healthy population of over 200 newts. This was a population I had been watching for a while, and I never told anyone about them. However, they are next to a trail so they aen't hard to find at all. Is there anything I can do to help prevent this? alert the rangers and ask them to post signs about the problems of collecting animals?

User avatar
Brian Hubbs
Posts: 4733
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:41 am
Location: "Buy My Books"-land

Re: Illegal to collect?

Post by Brian Hubbs » May 2nd, 2012, 9:01 pm

I shouldn't advocate releasing the garter, but if I we're unknown and only had the garter 100 hrs, or even 200 hrs., I would let it go where it was found. Nothing is going to happen, and it will be better for the snake. In the past (25 years ago) I released SD gopher snakes 200 miles from where they were found (onto my property), and they survived fine, and I saw them each year under my cover boards. They did not affect the local population at all. Garters are no different, but the extreme panicky people here will tell you the sky will fall if that snake is taken back. NONSENSE!

Post Reply