Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overview

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Jeroen Speybroeck
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Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overview

Post by Jeroen Speybroeck »

As promised (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9418 and viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9402), here some Salamandra stuff. Not as comprehensive as my viper post, but here it is anyway…

Fire salamander (Salamandra salamandra)
Widespread across Europe. Loves wet, cool nights to run around. Over much of its range, typically found in deciduous woodland, but not exclusively. Deposits larvae (so skips the egg stadium), but sometimes gives birth to fully metamorphosed young (so also skipping the larval phase). Numerous subspecies are described.

--- Salamandra salamandra salamandra – the subspecies of Central and Eastern Europe, don’t have that many pictures of it; usually with round spots

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juvenile from NE Greece

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old larva from Bulgaria – larvae are always recognisable by pale/yellow spots at the base of the legs; the rest of the yellow color starts appearing during development

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adult from Romania, sometimes considered a separate subspecies (carpathica)

--- Salamandra salamandra fastuosa – W Pyrenees and adjacent areas, with nice stripes along the body

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--- Salamandra salamandra bejarae – parts of Spain, spotted

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--- Salamandra salamandra gigliolii – (S) Italy, broad, wavy pattern

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this pregnant female from N Italy might actually be subsp. salamandra… =>
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--- Salamandra salamandra morenica – parts of S Spain, often with red pigment

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--- Salamandra (salamandra) longirostris – restricted to isolated part of SW Spain, may represent full species; has a rather pointed snout and no red pigment (in contrast to nearby Spanish subspecies)

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juvenile

--- Salamandra salamandra crespoi; restricted to S Portugal; rather variable

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male of uncertain subspecies in typical show-off pose, looking for a mate

--- Salamandra salamandra terrestris – main subspecies of larger W Europe, including my own country and town

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From NE Spain (Catalonia), sometimes consider a different subspecies (hispanica).

The rest is from my own home town.

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female depositing larvae in ditch with floating leaves

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another at water’s edge

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spots tend to fade with age , as partially visible on this one’s flanks

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larvae in the water


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female swimming across dirty water

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temporary home for a collection of 10 animals that were sampled for DNA (population genetic study) – note the orange one

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daddy and a juvenile

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mating

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mating

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dissociated after mating, because … it was two male action in fact !

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juv

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At the end of december 2011, I spotted my first and only orange one of that year

--- Missing – S.s. almanzoris, (disputed) S.s. beschkovi, S.s. bernardezi, (disputed) S.s. alfredschmidti, S.s. gallaica

Corsican fire salamander (Salamandra corsica) – more or less the same, but more stubby toes, shorter limbs and head, and often very irregular (but beautiful) spots

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herpers in salamander habitat

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Alpine salamander (Salamandra atra) – the main Alpine species, usually pitch black, occupying most of the Alpine arch, stretching to N Albania, but largerly absent from France; female deposites usually 2 developed young after 2 years

--- Salamandra atra atra

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as flipped (left), with a terrestrial phase Alpine newt (Ichthyosaura alpestris)

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--- Salamandra atra aurorae – exception to the “being black” rule of the species, relictual morph restricted to tiny area in Italy

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--- Salamandra atra pasubiensis – exception to the “being black” rule of the species, relictual morph restricted to extremely tiny area in Italy, with variable degree of yellow pigment

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Lanza's Alpine Salamander (Salamandra lanzai) – large and black, big head, partially webbed toes; occupies tiny range in the French and Italian Alps

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That's it! Sorry for the overkill...

For some more, crazy looking animals, check out e.g. this page of a dear friend herper =>
http://www.sabine-deschandol.com/trip2007/trip2007.html
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Fundad
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Fundad »

WOW..

Thank You!!!

With manders like that who needs snakes..


Seriously one of the best mander and Europe posts I have seen to date..

Thanks Again for taking us on a tour of all of your beautiful manders

:thumb: :D

Fundad
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JAMAUGHN
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by JAMAUGHN »

Everything Fundad said.

Your European posts are all stunning. This one's no exception.

JimM
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Sam Bacchini
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Sam Bacchini »

That was great, thanks!
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tdimler
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by tdimler »

Splendid post and plenty of animals that haven't been shown here on the forum. Particularly interesting to me are longirostris. Do you have any photos with something for size reference? I understand they are one of the bigger forms. What about size on the corsica? Your habitat photo for S. lanzai surely shows that it is an alpine form.....would love to see more photos of that biotope. What is the elevation in the area? Additionally, I think I can count on one hand the number of photos I have seen of pasubiensis...good going all around!

Travis Dimler
millside
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by millside »

a very big thank you for your post. one of my favorite species. nice post all around. :thumb:
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Andy Avram
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Andy Avram »

Man those Fire Salamanders look like our Ambsytoma crossed with a newt. Sweet salamander!
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geckoguy747
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by geckoguy747 »

seriously awesome post! i've had a captive salamandra for over 10 years now. i'd love to get a chance to see some in the wild! bring on more of these overview posts! i'm really enjoying them!
josh
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Fieldnotes
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Fieldnotes »

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: that waas a great post!
dbh
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by dbh »

Excellent photos and descriptions. If that is an overview bring on some more!
Thank you for posting.
David
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Jeroen Speybroeck
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Jeroen Speybroeck »

Thank you all for your kind responses!
tdimler wrote:Particularly interesting to me are longirostris. Do you have any photos with something for size reference? I understand they are one of the bigger forms. What about size on the corsica? Your habitat photo for S. lanzai surely shows that it is an alpine form.....would love to see more photos of that biotope. What is the elevation in the area?
I checked and sorry but I couldn't find any "longirostris in hand" or anything like that. There's this...
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This is actually the guy from the link with the crazy alfredschmidti I posted.
http://www.sabine-deschandol.com/trip2007/trip2007.html

They are rather larger, but crespoi gets bigger, I believe. Salamandra corsica is not really the largest one. In general, I'd say size variation is not that huge.

The few valleys that have Salamandra lanzai are inhabited by that species from about 1700-1800m absl and upwards (so roughly above 5500 feet).

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I think I might do a colubrid overview next, we'll see...
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Jeroen Speybroeck
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Jeroen Speybroeck »

JAMAUGHN wrote:Your European posts are all stunning.
Yet here I am, longing to hit CA again asap ...
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Nir
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Nir »

Wow!!! Coming from a huge fan of Salamandra, this post is amazing!!! You covered many great subspecies!!! I have only ever seen salamandra in my vivaria at home, but I would love to see them in the wild!!

I would also like to find some of those giglioli captive bred here in north america...

Thanks for such a wonderful post!
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jonathan
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by jonathan »

This is just a spectacular post, in pictures, info, and comprehensiveness. From all those non-Europeans among us, thank you for the detailed life history descriptions and habitat scene-setting.
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geckoguy747
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by geckoguy747 »

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:I think I might do a colubrid overview next, we'll see...
please do! :thumb:
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Jeroen Speybroeck
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Jeroen Speybroeck »

geckoguy747 wrote:
Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:I think I might do a colubrid overview next, we'll see...
please do! :thumb:
At your service ...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9715
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Dave S
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Dave S »

I think I wet myself.... :P
WOW....My new all time favorite post on this forum. Way to go, salamandra are the best!!!
Thanks for posting and please keep the salamandra photos coming.
Dave S.
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Cole Grover
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Cole Grover »

Amazing post! I saw it right after you put it up, but didn't have the chance to reply until now. Man, oh man! What cool beasts those Salamandra are. How toxic are they? Does it vary across their ranges or between species?

Thanks
-Cole
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walk-about
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by walk-about »

FANTASTIC post!!! Salamanders rock! WOULD like to see more of Europe on this forum for sure.

Rock ON!

Dave
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Jeroen Speybroeck
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by Jeroen Speybroeck »

Some additions ... :D

--- some more pics of Salamandra salamandra fastuosa
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extra subspecies => => =>

--- Salamandra salamandra bernardezi - parts of NW Spain, striped like fastuosa, but much smaller
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--- Salamandra salamandra alfredschmidti - like previous, but with some funny colour morphs (see also http://www.sabine-deschandol.com/trip2007/trip2007.html)
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--- Salamandra salamandra gallaica - Galicia, Portugal, ...
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millside
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Re: Salamandra species and subspecies of Europe - an overvie

Post by millside »

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

very nice, thank you for taking the time to post your findings. I always enjoy salamandra and it is not often I see them in natural habitat.
kind of hard to pick my favorite species.
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