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Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 20th, 2012, 9:06 pm
by repaphin
caught one i will post pics later

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 20th, 2012, 10:02 pm
by LouB747
Looking forward to the pics.

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 20th, 2012, 10:22 pm
by Ross Padilla
Hypo? We'll have to see about that. :D

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 6:40 am
by repaphin
super light colored never seen anything like it! no balck pigmentation on it all its mocha brown all the way

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 11:37 am
by Ross Padilla
repaphin wrote:never seen anything like it!
Yeah, but you haven't seen much. :P :lol: Lets see how big it is. If its an older male, it could just be faded out. With Cal kings, hypos have to be proven through breeding to be 100% sure they are a true hypo. It is possible you found the "Mocha morph", which hasn't been proven out as far as I know.

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 1:00 pm
by Fundad
Hey Ross, show him your hypo,big dog.
:lol: :thumb:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 2:32 pm
by repaphin

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 3:07 pm
by Fundad
Very Nice King.. :thumb: :beer:

But sorry Not Hypo.. :(

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 3:09 pm
by apantaleo91
I might be inclined to say that it isnt necessarily a hypo because most strains of hypomelanism in kingsnakes makes them extremely light colored to the point that it is very apparent that it is something beyond a light brown coastal. My guess would be that if anything this is a Newport-Long Beach morph which is a type of hypermelanism or something similar. May sound like im just arguing semantics, but they are different mainly in that hypomelanism is recessive where as hypermelansim is co-dominant but i guess there is no way of proving this since its wild :P Again this is all just my speculation, what do you veterans think? I'm particularly interested in your opinion Ross since you are very knowledgeable in this area. Whether it is hypo, hyper, or just an abberant coastal it is a good looking king!

-Tony

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 3:18 pm
by Kent VanSooy
I think it's big!
it could just be faded out
Agree 100%. Neat snake!

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 4:33 pm
by Ross Padilla
Fundad wrote:Hey Ross, show him your hypo,big dog.
:lol: :thumb:
:thumb: Here's the hypo from WW. A hypo from Western Riverside Co. would be even lighter.
Image

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 4:55 pm
by Ross Padilla
Hey there, Tony. Yeah, I think Fundad and Kent are right on about what's going on with this king. Its a large older adult, so its a bit faded and lighter than what it was years ago. Its always useful to know what kind of variation in shades of brown are found in the area the king came from. It can often take years to find this out, sometimes depending on how many kings you have found. Western Riverside Co. doesn't have the really light ones you can find in Coastal San Diego Co. At least not in the areas I've herped. There has to be a place where they do start showing lighter examples, but I don't know if that's in extreme SW Riverside Co. or well into SD Co. This king would be an average shade of brown for the size and age it is. It is still an awesome example, because I haven't seen many kings, let alone aberrants, at that stage of their life. There are some light Mocha colored kings in SD Co. even lighter than this one, which are not really considered hypo. I havent seen enough of them to know for sure what's going on with them, but it would be an interesting breeding project to find out how quickly they lighten up. I do know they start out a typical brown like most kings. Here's some I and others have found in SD.

Image

Image

Image

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 5:22 pm
by hellihooks
What the heck... here's the 'hypo' my son and I walked at ARC PS...
Image
Image
It came from Morongo so it should have looked like this...
Image
It was a big (4+ft) OLD male... some say they think they can see traces of black, but no one who saw it in person could see ANY black on it. I think... that just like a big old snake can 'fade'... the edges of the light brn in a hypo can darken, with age. I think this snake, when young, was probably as clean as Ross's, which is about the nicest hypo around... :thumb: jim

PS Rep... Here's a aberrant '50/50' King, for ya.... :crazyeyes: :D
Image

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 5:52 pm
by Ross Padilla
I love that snake, Jim. :thumb: Too bad it died. It would have been a cool breeding project.

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 7:29 pm
by repaphin
well thats the lightest king ive ever found there usually jet black but this ones brown and would hypo mean reduced black piggment ? i cant see any black and her stomach is brownish

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 8:04 pm
by Ross Padilla
Yeah, hypo means reduced black or brown pigment, but just because one king is lighter than others, doesn't mean its hypo. I guarantee there are lots of brown kings from that population. ;)

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 8:05 pm
by repaphin
well we can agree on one thing thats one great looking king :mrgreen:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 8:22 pm
by hellihooks
repaphin wrote:well thats the lightest king ive ever found there usually jet black but this ones brown and would hypo mean reduced black piggment ? i cant see any black and her stomach is brownish
Technically... any reduced black pigment could be called 'hypo', but many reduced pigment snakes fall within the naturally occurring variability range. Roll of the genetic dice... they came out light and may even appear 'hypo'.
Now for the 'purist'... a hypo has NO black pigment, and this genetic aberration can be passed down to his/her offspring. So, while many snakes may appear hypo, you don't know if it's a true genetic aberrancy until you prove it by producing more.
So... the best you can say for any WC, is that it appears 'hypo'. While it might seem a minor distinction... if a hypo appearing snake breeds the hypo trait true... it's worth a ton of $, as a breeder... if the offspring come out normal-looking, and it's just an unusually light snake... it has little monetary value... as wc... can't be sold, and it may take generations (if ever) for another hypo to pop out.
That said... most folks will take an unusual-looking snake over a very common-looking one, as a 'pet', which is understandable... :) hope that helps... :thumb: jim

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 9:02 pm
by repaphin
thanks im planiing on breeding her and she has no black on her. i just want to go out looking for more color patterns im just stuck here and kings are getting boring really fast :roll:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 21st, 2012, 10:13 pm
by apantaleo91
Great explanation of the genetics Jim, couldnt have put it better myself :thumb:

If you have already taken the snake out of the wild already and intend to breed it know that hypomelanism is a recessive trait so you will not get any "hypos" only hets. You will either have to breed it out with a normal and breed back the het offspring or with another hypo/het that is compatible. Good luck either way

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 5:57 am
by Fundad
Not the HYPO conversation again.. :roll:

Only ONE true Hypo in the pictures above, IMO.

Thats Ross's king..

The rest are wannabes.

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:18 am
by Ross Padilla
Yep, you have to respect Fundad's opinion on this. He's probably seen more Cal kings in the field than all of us combined. He knows Western Riverside Co. kings very well too, and this one is just not out of the ordinary at all once you learn whats out there. It would be a complete waste of time to try to prove that king out for hypomelanism, but it would be a fun project to see what kind of patterns it produces as long as you use a mate from the same locale. A true hypo is a rare find in the wild. They do tend to turn up more often in and around El Dorado and Sacramento Counties, but everywhere else, they are just as rare as an albino, or an axanthic.

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:39 am
by hellihooks
As for the one my son found... EVERYBODY at ARC said probably 'true hypo'... and these were guys VERY reluctant to use the term. Either way... it was the nicest king my son and I ever found... GREAT father/son moment... and.. what I made me the proudest was that my boy INSISTED on getting insitu's, before the snake was ever touched... :mrgreen:

As for having the same conversations over and over... NO PROBLEM. Part of our mandate is to teach, and if this conversation keeps one herp from being collected, as a possible hypo... then it's worth having again... :thumb: Ask away Newbies... no such thing as a stupid question... only stup.... oh, never mind... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: jim

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 10:26 am
by apantaleo91
Hey my only hopes in bringing it all up was to try and show that it was no piece of cake, in an attempt to prevent another wild snake from being collected without blatantly saying "Don't do that." :| Like i said before I value the opinion of the veterans such as yourselves

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 10:43 am
by hellihooks
apantaleo91 wrote:Hey my only hopes in bringing it all up was to try and show that it was no piece of cake, in an attempt to prevent another wild snake from being collected without blatantly saying "Don't do that." :|
No worries, and good job bringing up the fact that hypomelanism is a recessive trait, and it takes years, and several generations to prove out the trait. Generally speaking, if and when you find a true hypo herp... there will be no doubt about it... :shock:
Image
So... unless you're absolutely sure... take good pics and let it go... specially with kings and rosys, for which PLENTY of morphs/localities are already available commercially... :roll: jim

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 11:20 am
by Fundad
Ross's Hypo=True hypo :thumb: :thumb: His king is a VERY rare Gem (I have seen well over 2,000 wild kings and NEVER have I seen one like that) It is a 1 in 10,000 (Same as albinism)

The others, including my striper above, Jim's king, ect, are still REALLY nice kings light colored kings.. But not the rare True Hypo gem that Ross found.. 1 in 100 or so for the other kings I see posted here.. I have seen way more then a handful of the "lighter colored" kings..

You can call these others HYPO if you want (Hell many people do, that said they start to call anything with a little less black HYPO, :roll: )

It depends on where you draw the line for "reduced black pigment".. For me my line is at Ross's king, not a speck of dark brown or black.. Its pure..

So yeah a 1 in a 100 king is VERY SPECIAL and Awesome, but a 1 in 10,000 king is the stuff dreams are made of.. :shock: :shock: :thumb:

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 2:07 pm
by repaphin
Thanks that king is just really light. im planning on breeding the girl to a striped male and then letting adult go

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 2:24 pm
by Fundad
Thanks that king is just really light. im planning on breeding the girl to a striped male and then letting adult go
Its NOT legal to release that king once its been in captivity.

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 2:28 pm
by repaphin
okay then i guess i will just have to keep it. do you have any pet snakes?

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 2:32 pm
by Ross Padilla
Thanks, Fundad. I agree with that. I feel very lucky. Now hopefully, it will prove out next year like I think it will.

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 2:48 pm
by Fundad
Three..

A Dotted king, A Saddled/yellow-bellied banded king, and a 22 inch ringnecks that eats skinks and dor small snakes..

All were collected from places that are going to be or have been developed.


Fundad

Thanks, Fundad. I agree with that. I feel very lucky. Now hopefully, it will prove out next year like I think it will.

Your king IS KING.. :thumb:

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 3:40 pm
by repaphin
thanks :thumb: it was collected right in a neighborhood so i had no choice and plus it was beautiful :lol:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 6:52 pm
by Chris_VE.
Fundad wrote:Three..

A Dotted king, A Saddled/yellow-bellied banded king, and a 22 inch ringnecks that eats skinks and dor small snakes..

All were collected from places that are going to be or have been developed.


Fundad

Thanks, Fundad. I agree with that. I feel very lucky. Now hopefully, it will prove out next year like I think it will.

Your king IS KING.. :thumb:

Fundad
That has got to be a huge ringneck.... And you only have three snakes?! So you do not have rooms dedicated to hundreds and hundreds of snakes?!?! This is not what I was expecting... You should throw some pictures up of your three friends! :D

-Chris

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 7:26 pm
by repaphin
agreed, i have 8 snakes 2 Cal. kings one striped and the other i posted of, one brooks, one striped corn, one 100% het albino hognose, 3 coastal rosy boas

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 7:35 pm
by Fundad
agreed, i have 8 snakes 2 Cal. kings one striped and the other i posted of, one brooks, one striped corn, one 100% het albino hognose, 3 coastal rosy boas
The legal limit of Rosy Boas is 2 per person.

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:00 pm
by repaphin
me and my dad both have fishing liscense...

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:05 pm
by Fundad
Thats Good, not judging just educating in case you or others didn't know.

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:11 pm
by repaphin
of course theres always TONS to learn :thumb:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:20 pm
by Fundad
And you only have three snakes?! So you do not have rooms dedicated to hundreds and hundreds of snakes?!?! This is not what I was expecting.
No Way.. I like to watch them live IN the wild.. And sometimes, I get see them the next year or year after if I am lucky..

I support collecting of species that have a sustainable harvest, though collecting is not what appeals to me about herping personally. If there is something I really wanted or was really amazing, I would collect it, and have in the past. But for the most part I prefer to let them roam free and take them home on my camera only... You don't have to feed pictures.. :D

Fundad

Its my turn to share a post of some of my finds, I ll put something together soom..

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:25 pm
by repaphin
you better im curious on what you find all the time. i also need to put up a post with all the green helleri ive been finding lately

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:31 pm
by Chris_VE.
But other than collecting wild Herps, you don't keep snakes from other parts of the world or anything? No breeding colonies? I guess it's cheaper... But still! Like everyone on here has huge populations in their living room, it's weird to think you of all people don't!

-Chris

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:32 pm
by Chris_VE.
And Cody, he finds everything.... Just watch what he adds to the database.... It's insane how much he gets sometimes... :shock:

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:38 pm
by repaphin
i dont pay attention to the data base all i know is that ive caughten 67 non venomous snakes in 5 years

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 8:55 pm
by hellihooks
Brian... JUST out of curiosity...what became of that little gopher from Tejon, we all thought was DOR, and you took home as a feeder, only to have it come back from the dead? kingsnake food? Ahhh.. the circle of life... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 22nd, 2012, 9:26 pm
by repaphin
Lol I just caught my kings breeding. So we will see sooner than I thought

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 23rd, 2012, 5:28 am
by Fundad
But other than collecting wild Herps, you don't keep snakes from other parts of the world or anything? No breeding colonies? I guess it's cheaper... But still! Like everyone on here has huge populations in their living room, it's weird to think you of all people don't!

-Chris
Nope, Into herping not breeding.... When I was a ladd many moons ago, I had to feed the snakes we had, and take care of all the mice we had.. Guess that burned me out..
Brian... JUST out of curiosity...what became of that little gopher from Tejon, we all thought was DOR, and you took home as a feeder, only to have it come back from the dead? kingsnake food? Ahhh.. the circle of life... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
Yeah, The king made short work of him. He was a little slow and stupid after coming back to life..

Fundad

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 23rd, 2012, 6:12 am
by hellihooks
Fundad wrote:
Yeah, The king made short work of him. He was a little slow and stupid after coming back to life..
Fundad
I know the feeling... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: jim

Re: Hypo Highway morph :p

Posted: May 24th, 2012, 4:41 am
by reako45
Cool looking King. It just appears to be a chocolate lighter brown. There are Kings like that in the southwestern hills here in the SFV.

reako45