Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

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Mike Waters
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Mike Waters » June 13th, 2012, 8:34 pm

Skunked? Brian and i just did that 3 days in a row in arizona. We hunted our butts off burned alot of fuel and didnt see anything. We had alot of fun though. It happens... even to fundad

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by jonathan » June 13th, 2012, 9:09 pm

I'll affirm that - Fundad and Billboard are the two herpers who herp longer and at a more frenzied pace than anyone else I've herped with. It's not just the miles traveled or the knowledge of what rocks/cracks hold the best snakes - it's the speed they travel those miles at and the shear number of rocks they flip or cracks they look into.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Biker Dave » June 13th, 2012, 10:08 pm

I'll back that up! If I could keep up with Bill I'd have to be on meth!

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Ross Padilla » June 13th, 2012, 11:40 pm

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IMG_4178 by RossAZ480, on Flickr

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IMG_4167 by RossAZ480, on Flickr

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Baja California Lyre snake by RossAZ480, on Flickr

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Baja CA Lyre snake by RossAZ480, on Flickr

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 14th, 2012, 4:19 am

Skunked? Brian and i just did that 3 days in a row in arizona. We hunted our butts off burned alot of fuel and didnt see anything. We had alot of fun though. It happens... even to fundad
Yes it does... Gawd we sucked that weekend.. :lol: :lol:

If your not getting skunked on occasion your not trying hard enough.. :D

Hell Mike has only been herping "hard" for a few years now, and he has done a ton of things I have never done, because he too hunts his ass off.

There is no magic bullet.. It took me 13 nights and over 1400 road cruising miles to find my first Arizona Milk.. I didnt quit, I became angrier and angrier every time I struck out.. It became an obsession of mine.. I was bound and DETERMINED to get one.



Fundad

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 14th, 2012, 6:31 am

Yeah... I used to razz Mike bout herping for seep salamanders... till I tried it with him... as hard as any herping I've ever tried... :shock: Worked our butts off all day... to find ONE slender salamander. Oh yeah.. we spent like another 2 days flipping 10 tons of rock each, for Zonata... and got skunked... :roll: I pulled a ligiment in my elbow, flipping a rock that weighed more than me...THATS when you know you been herping.
As for 'Billy Goat' Bill... the only one I ever saw who can keep up with him (Not counting Brian) ... is Kent. Thats the main reason I end up herping alone so often... nobody else (in my area) wants to put in the hrs/effort, to herp from sunup to sunset... :roll: jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by brick911 » June 14th, 2012, 8:08 am

I'd love to spend like 2-3 years with you guys. Just sayin...

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Kent VanSooy » June 14th, 2012, 8:34 am

Indeed, here's what not giving up looks like - we had hunted hard all day and were EXHAUSTED, but there was still some light left in the sky, and a pile high above us. The temps were dropping, but at that last pile this boa was uncovered, with the last rays of daylight illuminating the snake and herper.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Jeff Teel » June 14th, 2012, 9:25 am

Really, you guys spend more than 2 hrs a day in the field to find something ?. Sounds tough, and climbing to the top of hills or ridgelines :shock: , I dunno, sounds like too much work to me.

ps- I don't think this kid is lazy, probably just doesn't know much about what lyres do, but this thread has given him much advise.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Robert Hansen » June 14th, 2012, 9:39 am

For those of us whose "formative years" in herping were pre-internet (waaaay before!), and even when herp field guides were marginal or non-existent, there was no alternative except trial and error. The amount of information (print and web-based) now available for most herps (at least in the U.S.) is staggering. There is no excuse for neophytes to not have done their homework. Those of you who grew up in areas (like San Diego) with decent numbers of amateur or professional herpetologists were very fortunate, as you had access to the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of those folks. Many others of us, however, grew up in areas utterly devoid of knowledgeable herpers (heck, the term "herper" was not even in use!), and truly had to learn on our own. I can still remember a high school biology teacher suggesting road cruising at night as a means to find snakes--what a "Eureka" moment that was! The beauty in that is that it's all "original" learning, with no help. The knowledge gained from both positive and negative results was long-lasting and the successes all the more rewarding.

Cheers,

BH

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 14th, 2012, 4:37 pm

Jeff Teel wrote:Really, you guys spend more than 2 hrs a day in the field to find something ?. Sounds tough, and climbing to the top of hills or ridgelines :shock: , I dunno, sounds like too much work to me.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah RIGHT! Anyone who believes that should TRY to keep up with Jeff, 800 ft straight up a Mt, to check an outcrop the size of a VW. He got there 1st, but I wasn't far behind... and yeah... didn't find squat, at the crop :roll: :lol: :lol: jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 14th, 2012, 4:48 pm

i spend almost 12 hours a day looking for snakes until sun rise to sun set and i go out like 8 times a day :roll:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Biker Dave » June 14th, 2012, 6:33 pm

I'm getting tired just reading this!

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 14th, 2012, 7:06 pm

i spend almost 12 hours a day looking for snakes until sun rise to sun set and i go out like 8 times a day :roll:
I Officially Give Up.

Great Points Bob and Jeff (two other successful herpers) ..

Fundad

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 14th, 2012, 7:58 pm

Okay :oops:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by captain uta » June 14th, 2012, 9:11 pm

There should be a ball sucking icon :lol: :lol:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fieldnotes » June 15th, 2012, 8:20 am

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California Lyre Snake


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Sonoran Lyre Snake

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Central American Lyre Snake (DOR)

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 15th, 2012, 3:39 pm

Paul Lynum wrote:
Robert Hansen wrote:For those of us whose "formative years" in herping were pre-internet (waaaay before!), and even when herp field guides were marginal or non-existent, there was no alternative except trial and error. The amount of information (print and web-based) now available for most herps (at least in the U.S.) is staggering. There is no excuse for neophytes to not have done their homework. Those of you who grew up in areas (like San Diego) with decent numbers of amateur or professional herpetologists were very fortunate, as you had access to the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of those folks. Many others of us, however, grew up in areas utterly devoid of knowledgeable herpers (heck, the term "herper" was not even in use!), and truly had to learn on our own. I can still remember a high school biology teacher suggesting road cruising at night as a means to find snakes--what a "Eureka" moment that was! The beauty in that is that it's all "original" learning, with no help. The knowledge gained from both positive and negative results was long-lasting and the successes all the more rewarding.

Cheers,

BH
The good old days. I'm so glad I grew up in the era I did. I didn't know there were other herpers until after a couple years later from a news paper add advertising local herp club :o It's kinda sad to see how things are these days. The newer herpers have everything online and too many people willing to take "newbies" out for what reason I have no idea :( We now live in the days where the majority of herpers don't work to figure stuff out on their own. All spots are shared and visited almost daily by different groups. Entourage herping the norm.

I really like to help and share (Even though I have been scorched by many concerning the field) and it can be done with basic info given out and letting the new guy go out by himself. If he's dedicated he he will pursue. If not, he will eventually fade away.

I don't understand why so many are eager to put people under their wings to help out so quickly. I say let the newer guys work at it themselves for awhile and once they have proven their willingness to work hard then start with the PM's or personal conversations. Anything before time frame is a waste.

Some might think this is harsh. Too bad. :x At least I don't have to compete with other herpers when I'm out and know the rocks won't be trashed when I visit them. That's worth $10 a gallon of gas to me.

PL :beer:
While there's a lot to be said for being self taught, as I and many of us were... it's a new day... there's no turning back the clock on what the internet has brought about. With the ever-increasing numbers of new herpers in the field... the ONLY chance we have of even maintaining status quo... is to help the newbs become good herpers as soon as possible... DON"T trash the environment... DON"T overcollect... DON"T get tagged by herping recklessly. Collect Data and Pics... not herps. DO the research. Work Hard and be respectful of others. IF WE don't teach them these things... who will? You honestly think the environment can withstand scads of new herpers every year... learning everything by trial and error, and making all the mistakes that many of us did?... :shock:
We don't cry about all the other stuff technology has brought us... cell phones, GPS, Google earth. ect... We LIKE that stuff... well... you can't have your cake and eat it too... :shock:
Grow the hell up people, and spit out the 'sour grapes'... Deal with what is important today... and stop living in (and trying to return to) the past... AIN'T gonna happen.
Use this tool (the internet) to help solve Today's problems... not to snivel bout how hard we had it. Does no one see the irony in using the internet to decry technological advances? :shock: If you really miss the 'good ole days'... write a letter and send it to one person, rather than telling the whole world how you feel... :crazyeyes:

Paul... this is not directed specifically at you, but at everybody who snivels about how easy kids have it today. Reality check people... Kids have EVERYTHING easier today... not just herping... :roll: :D jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 15th, 2012, 7:42 pm

You guys make the all newbies sound bad(im not quite that new) i know how to turn rocks and to collect data and pics not herps. i se where your getting at i hate showing up to one of my spots and seeing boards moved across the field and sometimes missing. And honestly i wish i couldve been born back then to see what the world was like before all these KB homes and snotty kids. :roll:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by billboard » June 15th, 2012, 7:49 pm

You are new. 1 or 2 seasons does not make you a veteran herper. You are a collector also. Keep it legal.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 15th, 2012, 8:34 pm

Yeah...i think that my main point is... we have to take as a given, that today's youth are by-in-large, used to having everything handed to them. Any halfway resourceful kid/adult can easily find out just about anything they want to know... about anything.
Out of all the herping sites out there, posting far more specific info than we (typically) do, we have the chance to teach the 'core values' that took us so many years to learn. One thing I do know, though, is nothing makes kids tune out faster than the ole curdmugeonesque attitude of "what was good enough for me, way back when, should be good enough for you".
So yeah... I say meet the newbys, the sooner the better... get a feel for what they're about, and then lead by example. TEACH them the WHYS and then how to herp.
By way of example... Robert and Nicholas were 'newbies' just two short years ago... I think they first learned about Nafha at one of my Herp Ed talks. They are now both very competent herpers... Robert is our chapter's Con Off, and their lifer lists are now (already) probably bigger than mine. It was my pleasure to help them get a bunch of lifers they were keen to see, and while it's true that they, being great guys to begin with, would have become great herpers on their own efforts... I like to think that the small amount of help I offered hastened their growth into the top-notch herpers they are today.
Will every story be a success story... No, of course not. But my point is we need to do our best to insure that the success stories far outnumber the failures.
I agree that we shouldn't just 'hand over the keys to the Kingdome' to every newb that asks a question... but I believe that most people who come here, want to become good herpers... and I for one will continue to try to help produce better herpers. Bad attitudes will only drive them away, to other places where possibly 'core values' are not the focus... :roll: jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 15th, 2012, 10:48 pm

i am not a collecter... and ive been herping since i was 3 ...

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Jeff Teel » June 16th, 2012, 10:21 am

It is okay for you to collect a lyre snake if you want. In fact, you can collect two of them if you want. Don't let people here scare you away from things you are interested in. If you think it would be cool to have a lyre snake in a cage and be able to watch all the things it does then go ahead. It is legal and nothing wrong with it. Don't let people who have collected snakes themselves make you think it is not okay to collect an animal within your legal bag limit. If you have a fishing license you paid your money to be able to do exactly that. Have fun, keep going out...try going out at night with a light and walk and walk till you see a trimorph on the move!

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 16th, 2012, 4:27 pm

Thanks, i always herp alone because i dont have any friends who like snakes :roll: but i totally understand that. i do have a fishing license and i still get crap from all the "Older" people :roll:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Biker Dave » June 16th, 2012, 5:36 pm

Paul

From a safety standpoint... I would recommend at least taking one trusted person with you. You never know when you may need his/her help.

As far as the rest.... I was one of those "tell me more" kinda people when I first came along. Then I figured it out. The joy is in the find, for sure, but the thrill is much greater when you figure it out on your own!

Just sayin'

Dave

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 17th, 2012, 8:09 am

i se where your getting at i hate showing up to one of my spots and seeing boards moved across the field and sometimes missing.
Yeah Like when you and your friends did that to my spot.. :shock: :x :x

I would argue that many here have gone out of there way to help you, we still are, believe it or not..
NO has been herping since they were three.. :lol:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 17th, 2012, 8:25 am

At age 5, I was catching Anoles, frogs, turtles, snakes and even a hatchling gator... I would bring them home, get bit by them... and my Mom would make me let them go... :roll: :lol: :lol: Good ole Homestead AFB... :D jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fieldnotes » June 17th, 2012, 8:41 am

Jeff (surfinherp) and I night walked this big girl (45” TL) on a rocky road cut Friday night. So night walking is another method to find them.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 17th, 2012, 10:20 am

thats awesome! and yes i was catching gopher snakes, King snakes, and any other snakes i saw at Lake Perris with my grandma.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Speckled Rosy » June 17th, 2012, 10:54 am

That Lyre looks like a beast! :shock:

nice find..

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Ross Padilla » June 17th, 2012, 11:15 am

Wow, you can tell by the head that thing is big. :shock:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Ross Padilla » June 17th, 2012, 11:16 am

repaphin wrote:i spend almost 12 hours a day looking for snakes until sun rise to sun set and i go out like 8 times a day :roll:
repaphin wrote: ive been herping since i was 3 ...
:lol: :lol: :thumb:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by monklet » June 18th, 2012, 7:06 am

That Lyre is a monster! :shock: Agree with Ross about the head ...just looks BIG. ...and just think of how many switaki it's eaten! :lol:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by RobertH » June 18th, 2012, 8:42 am

I don't have the time to get into the different arguments in any detail, so let it suffice to say that I agree with Jim's position. Not because Nicholas and I are eternally grateful to him for taking us under his wing when we got started - which we are - but because he's right on all counts.

Well, except one. I don't think kids have it easier today, especially when it comes to any sort of unsupervised outdoor activities, including herping. They are generally no longer allowed by their parents to go out in the woods by themselves (thanks for paranoia spread by the media), their friends mostly prefer playing video games, etc., and open spaces near urban areas have vanished, and continue to vanish, at an alarming rate. Plus kids are nowadays expected to do do way more homework (something that modern research shows is a waste of time). All courtesy of the older generation, the one that grew up in "the good ole' days".

The fact is it takes an extremely committed individual - child - to persevere and become a successful herper nowadays, or nay outdoor enthusiast for that matter. It doesn't "just happen" anymore, as in where a group of boys goes to explore the woods around the neighborhood and end up finding and getting into snakes or what not. Though a great resource for information, the Internet will never replace what has been lost.

So, the least thing we adults, who had the benefit of time, freedom, open spaces and outdoor buddies, can do is to help the younger generation share and revel in some of the wonders that we took for granted when we were that age. As Jim said, this is also the only chance we will ever have to teach them to respect nature, etc. - i.e., not to do what WE ALL DID when we were that age, mostly because we just didn't know any better.

In any event, I've invited repaphin to join us on the surveys we will be doing for the Fallbrook Land Conservancy (FLC) starting next spring, and he's gladly accepted. In fact, my plan is to have as many of the younger generation go on the FLC surveys as possible. It so happens that a number of them live along I-15 and we should be able to organize one or two carpools to make this happen. At this point, I am thinking of ChrisV (Corona), Zach (Riverside), repaphin (Murietta), and also Ted (Orange County). As far as I am concerned, that would be a great group of herpers to have along, and chances are that each of them will find way more stuff than I :lol:

And, btw, I don't think starting to herp at age 3 is all that unusual. Here's Nicholas catching tree frogs in Santa Barbara County in 2005:

Image

Image


:D

Robert

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by El Garia » June 18th, 2012, 11:36 am

RobertH wrote:
I don't think kids have it easier today, especially when it comes to any sort of unsupervised outdoor activities, including herping. They are generally no longer allowed by their parents to go out in the woods by themselves (thanks for paranoia spread by the media), their friends mostly prefer playing video games, etc., and open spaces near urban areas have vanished, and continue to vanish, at an alarming rate. Plus kids are nowadays expected to do do way more homework (something that modern research shows is a waste of time). All courtesy of the older generation, the one that grew up in "the good ole' days"
Robert
You're spot on, Robert!

repaphin wrote: ive been herping since i was 3 ...
I started herping with my family when I was a toddler, as well. :thumb:


Here's a pic from a few years after toddlerdom. I present to you 'The Seasoned Herper' :D :lol: :

Image
Untitled by Mo'o, on Flickr

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Kent VanSooy » June 18th, 2012, 11:41 am

Nicely said Robert!
They are generally no longer allowed by their parents to go out in the woods by themselves
I hadn't thought of that during the course of this thread, but that's a great point - that accidental encounter that ignited our passion is not so easy to find these days. Even growing up in an urban environment (Long Beach), we had a field within bicycling distance, where we were allowed to go on our own, and learned how to noose lizards and look under cover for kingsnakes.

And THANK YOU for taking on the job as FLC coordinator! They're good folks - you and your charges will have a blast.

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by RobertH » June 18th, 2012, 12:09 pm

I am glad some of you agree and are supportive of the idea :thumb:
you and your charges will have a blast.
Yes, I am really looking forward to this. Thanks to you, Steve and the others who pioneered the project and pulled it aboard. That was the hard part. Now, I and my (hoped for) crew of junior herpers just have to find some stuff. Who knows, repaphin may even get his Lyre Snake. :)

Btw, it would be great if we could get the younger folks involved in other surveys, as well, e.g., Tejon Ranch, Soquel. Their only real limitation is not having a car. Once you put them in the field, they'll leave us all in the dust (OK, except Fundad ;) ). So, let's start thinking about carpools for next year.

Robert

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by hellihooks » June 18th, 2012, 3:35 pm

I think that's a fantastic Idea, Robert... Mutant Teenager Herping crew... :lol: :lol: Maybe Brian will bring Brent, as well. That boy can herp... (as can Ted as well... :thumb: ) course... he's got Brian as his full-time mentor... :crazyeyes: :D . Nick might have some competition for becoming the youngest ever president of Nafha... :lol: :lol: :lol:

And yeah... harder for kids to get out, nowadays, I guess. I caught my 1st 2 snakes in Ca. when I was 6... walking the 3 miles to the babysitter's house, after Kindergarten had let out for the day... :shock: jim

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 18th, 2012, 3:57 pm

My friend goes with me to look for snakes to he has a car :D so we go to the desert every now and then. tonight we are going to the desert with out knowing where we are going :roll:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fieldnotes » June 18th, 2012, 5:49 pm

repaphin wrote: tonight we are going to the desert with out knowing where we are going
That’s awesome... keep doing that and you will eventually find that Lyre Snake. :roll:

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 18th, 2012, 5:57 pm

im not going any more :(

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 18th, 2012, 7:40 pm

im not going any more :(
Well there will be other nights.. Go to Rocky areas next time you go.. (its really that simple)

Fundad

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 19th, 2012, 9:34 am

Image

Fundad

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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 19th, 2012, 10:14 am

Thanks i am going to a rocky area tonight hopefully i find one.

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Fundad
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Fundad » June 19th, 2012, 10:39 am

Thanks i am going to a rocky area tonight hopefully i find one.

Thats the SPIRIT... :beer:

Good Luck.. :thumb:

Fundad

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Kent VanSooy » June 19th, 2012, 11:07 am

Research about the power of suggestion (both deliberate and otherwise) and how response expectancies -- the ways in which we anticipate a specific outcome -- drive subsequent thoughts and behaviors that will actually help to bring that outcome to fruition.
I just read this in another context, but it's appropriate for herping, and something we keep in mind all the time. Lyre snakes aren't hard to find, you just haven't found one.......yet.

repaphin
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 19th, 2012, 5:32 pm

So if you find one you start noticing them more ? that happened to me with rosys.

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by Kent VanSooy » June 20th, 2012, 7:28 am

You start noticing them more because you now expect to find them, which means you keep looking until you do!

repaphin
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Re: Has any one have experience finding lyre snakes?

Post by repaphin » June 21st, 2012, 9:42 am

That makes sense. That happened to me with Rosys they were impossible for me to find until i started flipping rocks in spring :mrgreen:

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