Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

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chrish
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Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by chrish » August 4th, 2012, 6:29 am

Wanted to get some feedback about an idea for a new subforum here on FHF.

There is a POLL about this on the Image Lab - http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... 15&t=12936
Please vote!

I know there are a number of us who are interested in recording anurans and other herp sounds. With the ability to document sightings in the NAHerp database with recognizable recordings, there is now some extra incentive to record frog choruses for many of us.

Would we benefit from having an Anuran Recording Forum (aka Audio Lab)?

I would imagine it should be modeled on our Image Lab in that it wouldn't simply be a place to post recordings and say "look what I recorded". Instead, it would be a site where we could talk about how to improve the quality of anuran recordings and how to get started into the field.

A couple of pros and cons I can think of...

Pros:
- It would provide a place for us to exchange ideas about the technique
- It would provide a place to get honest feedback about our recordings
- AFAIK, there are no Anuran specific forums to discuss these issues anywhere on the web
- Hopefully it would encourage discussion and more participation in documenting amphibians this way

Cons:
- one more subforum on the FHF
- It removes those discussions from the main forums where they might be seen by more people.

Any opinions/feedback/other pros and cons?

Chris

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Curtis Hart » August 4th, 2012, 8:06 am

I don't currently record any frog calls, but every spring I think about getting into it. If there were a frog recording subforum, I wouldn't have to search through the entire forum looking for info, it would all be in one place. I like all the pros, and I'm not sure one more subforum is a con.



Curtis

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by walk-about » August 4th, 2012, 9:06 am

Chris,

"..........recording anurans and other wildlife calls".

I think it a great idea for the froggers & toadies. Regionally, it would be a nice tool. However, not sure I want to listen to night crickets & supposed sasquatch screams. Probably would want to keep it herp related as this is a herp forum.

RocK ON!

Dave

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Mike VanValen » August 4th, 2012, 10:49 am

Being in the Southeast for a few months has motivated me to record some calls. I think the sub-forum is a cool idea.

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Chris Smith » August 4th, 2012, 1:41 pm

I record a fair number of frogs/toads in the spring... typically common stuff for the database though.

-Chris

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Shane_TX » August 4th, 2012, 6:28 pm

I would imagine it should be modeled on our Image Lab in that it wouldn't simply be a place to post recordings and say "look what I recorded". Instead, it would be a site where we could talk about how to improve the quality of anuran recordings and how to get started into the field.
Good technical idea, but a forum for anurans would be more worthwhile in my opinion. Let's turn this joint into "not allowed", Jr.

Shane

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Warren » August 4th, 2012, 9:36 pm


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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by chrish » August 4th, 2012, 9:47 pm

walk-about wrote:Chris,
"..........recording anurans and other wildlife calls".
I think it a great idea for the froggers & toadies. Regionally, it would be a nice tool. However, not sure I want to listen to night crickets & supposed sasquatch screams. Probably would want to keep it herp related as this is a herp forum.
RocK ON!
Dave
Good point. I was thinking crotes rattling, pituophis hissing, alligator bellows, etc.. I didn't mean to imply non-herps, so I changed the original wording.
Good technical idea, but a forum for anurans would be more worthwhile in my opinion. Let's turn this joint into "not allowed", Jr.
I'm not sure if you are serious or not, so I'll go out on a limb and suggest that normal Anurans field posts belong on the main forum.

The benefit of having this extra forum would be a place to discuss things like microphones, recorders, post-processing, etc that relate to anuran calls but are not field herping related directly. There's a lot of stuff online to help people who are trying to record bird calls, but anuran calls are a different science. Those sorts of topics (how to remove road noise from a frog recording, etc.) don't really fit on the main forum.

Chris

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Tom Lott » August 5th, 2012, 9:44 am

I agree with Chrish, I think an Amphibian Forum would be a long-overdue addition to the site where recording techniques, equipment, analysis, etc., could be discussed in addition to other specifically amphibian concerns.

I don't always record amphibians, but when I do, I prefer that they be posted on an Amphibian Forum. :beer:

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by chrish » August 5th, 2012, 11:11 am

Tom Lott wrote:I agree with Chrish, I think an Amphibian Forum would be a long-overdue addition to the site where recording techniques, equipment, analysis, etc., could be discussed in addition to other specifically amphibian concerns.
I'm not sure we do agree, Tom. I don't think we need an amphibian forum, but rather a forum dealing with the technique of herp sound recording. I would expect it to be like the Image lab which isn't solely a spot for post great photos, it has a place to discuss how to create great photos and review photo gear.

For example, johnathan's excellent post about slender salamanders shouldn't be posted on a subforum. It belongs on the main Field Herping forum.
This is neat, but it is simply a list of recordings. We want a place to talk about how to do it to make each other better.

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Shane_TX » August 5th, 2012, 3:36 pm

FHF.com is composed of 20 public forums.

There is no such thing as a snake, salamander, frog, toad , turtle, alligator, yada and yada special forum. I don't see the logic of adding a technical audio forum when there isn't one dedicated to the vocal amphibs in the first place. It would make a great thread, though.

Shane

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Dalton Lund » August 5th, 2012, 5:45 pm

I think an audio-specific forum would be great, I don't think that an amphibian-only forum is not necessary, there isn't a snake specific forum, or a turtle forum. I think people are mis-interpreting the idea; Chris is focusing on the audio, not the animal creating it per se.

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Warren » August 5th, 2012, 8:32 pm

Guys, we should post a poll on this topic. I can't post one because the poll option was removed for non-moderators.

I suggest something like:

Poll: Audio Lab

How do you feel about an FHF Audio Lab? It will be like the Image Lab, in that it will be both a place to post recordings and a place to discuss audio recording techniques, technology, and how to make each other better.
It will be for any sounds on FHF: frogs, snakes rattling and hissing, and maybe even bugs or anything users want to record!


a) I think the Audio Lab is a good idea. I would check it out.

b) I think the Audio Lab is a bad idea. We have enough forums already.

c) Do whatever you want - I don't care either way.


Again, I cannot create a poll. A moderator has to do this.

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by chrish » August 6th, 2012, 8:21 am

Warren wrote:Guys, we should post a poll on this topic. I can't post one because the poll option was removed for non-moderators.
Again, I cannot create a poll. A moderator has to do this.
Fortunately, I know one of the moderators on the Image Lab ;) , so I snuck it in there.

Here's the link.....please vote!

http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... 15&t=12936

Chris

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by chrish » August 6th, 2012, 8:30 am

Shane_TX wrote:I don't see the logic of adding a technical audio forum when there isn't one dedicated to the vocal amphibs in the first place. It would make a great thread, though.
Shane,

Here are some examples of some topics that might be better served on an "Audio Lab" than in the main forum:

- comparison of various free (and non-free) sound editing programs for analyzing frog calls
- microphone and recorder reviews
- discussions of appropriate use of the technology (mics, recorders, software) for getting clean frog calls
- how to deal with noise in audio recordings
- species identification (maybe could go on either forum)
- how to contribute those recorded data to museums, NAHerp, and other organizations

I think those topics aren't really appropriate for the main "Field" forum and beyond that, they would probably get buried very quickly so that the handfuls of people interested would miss them and they would die on the vine.

The problem with a specific Anuran forum is we would get into the situation where a field post about amphibians could potentially end up on one of two (or more) forums. So if you are posting about discovering a population of Greenhouse Frogs in East Texas, does that go on the Amphibian Forum, the Field Forum, or the South Central Forum?
Too much overlap/redundancy in the coverage of the forums dilutes the content and weakens the FHF in general, IMHO.

Furthermore, I think having amphibs on the main FHF actually increases interest in the group among those members who were simply reptile (or even snake) herpers.

What we are talking about discussing on the Audio Lab has no current home on FHF or anywhere on the web.

Chris

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Scott Waters » August 6th, 2012, 11:58 am

- - - - I've added polling options. Sorry, I didn't realize it wasn't available!

Since the inception of FHF in 2004, I've added 9 forums to the original concept of FHF. There are 5 sub-forums for the main portion of FHF and then "more to life than field herping" offers 5 more. The rest are NAFHA forums, dedicated to the project organization. FHF purposely funnels you all into one place, The Forum. This is what makes FHF a special place, a common area (for the most part) in which we meet. Sub-forums have their purpose, I agree (like with NAFHA, for example), but FHF is different because we are THE FORUM.

I get emails all the time talking about how great it is that we are generally in one place, THE FORUM. Again, this makes us.....you.....unique. Look around at the others, with a million sub-forums........that's not us......that's not you. Especially those of you (our base) who've been here from the beginning, or for a very long time. You make this place special because you come to a common area, a common theme.......field herping in all of its aspects on THE FORUM.

That said, as I mentioned, sub-forums have been added over the years. The Board Line was created early on for obvious reasons! LOL News has its place, though I would argue it doesn't necessary get used enough (cough cough.....post more in that section!). The Reading Room was an early addition, and I think it has been valuable to many people as it is treated as a reference point for many. And then there is the FHF Image Lab, which has "quietly" over the years become THE place on the web for herp photographers. Look at what goes on in that area! The lab has been an invaluable source for many amateur and pro photographers.

After that, I added an entirely different area called "more to life than field herping" due to a call by field herpers (over many years of asking me!) who experience more than herps in their lives. Be it in the field or otherwise. This, I would suggest, would be a great place for an audio forum, if it were to be added. Or maybe I'm wrong and something similar to the Image Lab would be good for audio. I need to think about it a bit more, so bear with me......and trust me. :) K?

have some other ideas on how audio could be discussed/shared. Chris, in our email exchange I mentioned one way.......a segment on the Dan Krull Show......or better yet......an entire audio show on the Herp Nation Radio Network dedicated to recordings. Anyone want to host it? I'll produce it, along with Chris! :)

On that note, are you guys listening to the great stuff Dan (and our other hosts) are doing on the "HNRN"? If not, please check it out. The HNRN is making history, folks. We are creating a legitimate audio network of non-douche-baggery, with more shows VERY CLOSE to being added. As a media producer by trade, I'm in a unique position to foster any new talent. If you think you can host a show, or want to send a pilot, please contact me. [email protected] The HNRN is not a gimmick, not a "talk loud, yell people down, act like retards" type of network. We have some solid, eager, and talented people on board already, with many more to come. Support it, share it, and be a part of helping Herp Nation (YOU!) change the idiocracy that has been infiltrating in our community for far too long. HN is standing up, putting our foot forward and saying, "Not here!". Buy some mags, listen to the shows, share it on FB, help us out! If we were a greedy corp, just out to make a buck, we would have shut down years ago! We are here because we are like many of you, we f'n care! We too are sick and tired of having idiots represent our community! Again...."Not here!". Help out the cause of education-first. Plant your foot in the ground with us, by supporting FHF, Herp Nation, and the new "HNRN".

I get a lot of sub-forum ideas sent my way, and these ideas are all given consideration. The audio forum will be given consideration......but I'd rather create a radio show around the idea. Seems to make more sense, don't ya think? That's my idea, anyway. What's yours?

Scott

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by Don Becker » August 6th, 2012, 12:52 pm

I like the idea of an FHF "Sound Booth" :)

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by Scott Waters » August 6th, 2012, 1:00 pm

Yeah, good name psyon! You mean as an audio show or a forum?

Based on the immediate response I have received via email, I think an audio show is now in the works. :) Gonna be fun.

scott

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by Don Becker » August 6th, 2012, 2:59 pm

Sorry, for a forum, but I guess it could be both? I just figured if we have the Image Lab for discussing photography, that it makes sense to have the Sound Booth for recording techniques.

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by Kelly Mc » August 6th, 2012, 6:36 pm

Tom Lott wrote:I agree with Chrish, I think an Amphibian Forum would be a long-overdue addition to the site where recording techniques, equipment, analysis, etc., could be discussed in addition to other specifically amphibian concerns.

I don't always record amphibians, but when I do, I prefer that they be posted on an Amphibian Forum. :beer:
:thumb:

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Re: Do we want an Frog Recording Forum?

Post by chrish » August 7th, 2012, 4:40 am

Scott Waters wrote: have some other ideas on how audio could be discussed/shared. Chris, in our email exchange I mentioned one way.......a segment on the Dan Krull Show......or better yet......an entire audio show on the Herp Nation Radio Network dedicated to recordings. Anyone want to host it? I'll produce it, along with Chris! :)
Scott,

I think the show is a good idea, but at this point I don't think we have had enough (any) exchange of ideas to be able to put together a good discussion.
I believe if we created the forum and let it run for a few months, we could then have enough exchange to develop a coherent synopsis and discussion for the radio show.
For example, until we get our heads together about this, I'm not sure we really even know what resources are available to the aspiring "anuran recording artist".

I think I prefer the name Audio Lab to Sound Booth simply because of its symmetry with the Image Lab, but you know what they say about opinions. ;)

Chris

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by Kelly Mc » August 7th, 2012, 6:14 am

'Sound Booth' pops uncommonly genuine though. The sounds we hear in nature.

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by stlouisdude » August 7th, 2012, 4:57 pm

I do feel when a place has a zillion subforums it feels like "work" going through them all and activity seems to drop with some forums being basically inactive. I think it's better to have one very busy forum. However, I think the audio aspect is worthy of discussion, too. Perhaps the audio thread of all audio threads could be stickied for 30 days to allow sufficient discussion for the show? It could then be searched for thereafter as a point of reference. Perhaps a hall of fame for the best how to and posts of all time might be another thing to consider. Perhaps a sticky with links or even a totally different page with links or similar. There are many aspects of audio worth discussing from automation to quality.

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by Shane_TX » August 7th, 2012, 7:46 pm

The image lab is a great place to discuss such interests. I don't buy things to record frog calls, but I do keep in mind that my camera can do it in the off chance that I hear a species of interest. Wind and distance are always the biggest factors.

I have some pretty good recordings that came from a simple point and shoot. I'm too stubborn to not chase down an exciting call under the cover of darkness, but at the end of the day I had to know the call in the first place (or at least be puzzled by it).

Shane

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Re: Do we want a Frog Recording Forum? PLEASE VOTE!

Post by chrish » August 8th, 2012, 4:47 am

stlouisdude wrote:I do feel when a place has a zillion subforums it feels like "work" going through them all and activity seems to drop with some forums being basically inactive.
I actually think FHF has about the right number of subforums. I feel I can look at 3-4 forums quickly and find out what's going on here. Most of those forums don't move very fast so even checking weekly keeps me "informed".

I don't think one more specialty subforum would throw us over the edge. Do you feel like you are missing stuff because you don't check the Mammal or Birding Forums?
I think it's better to have one very busy forum.
The problem with one busy forum is that posts with fewer respondants get pushed down off the first page where they die. This can be due to something as innocuous as a bad post title.
These quality posts are often booted into obscurity in favor of posts with 15 pages of replies where 2-3 people are arguing about something or talking something to death (I hope I'm not doing that here... :oops: ).
Perhaps the audio thread of all audio threads could be stickied for 30 days to allow sufficient discussion for the show? It could then be searched for thereafter as a point of reference. Perhaps a hall of fame for the best how to and posts of all time might be another thing to consider. Perhaps a sticky with links or even a totally different page with links or similar. There are many aspects of audio worth discussing from automation to quality.
That seems to be based on the assumption that we could get all the good information out and the issue would be finished after 30 days. Take a look at the Image Lab. It has been going for years, yet there are continually interesting and informative discussions about photography technique and technology. These discussions have changed over the years as technology has changed. Having a sticky or link to the best posts from the first 30 days of the Image Lab would miss a lot of its best content.

Sorry if I sound overly passionate about this, but I think documenting amphibian populations and breeding is a crucial role that we herpers can play in protecting these species. And because sound travels through fences, it gives us a feel for what's going on in inaccessible private lands.
The problem is that it isn't as easy (at first) as taking a photo with your phone and there is no single source (book, web, anywhere else) where people can put it all together to learn the best approaches.

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