Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

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periglenes
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Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by periglenes »

I just saw this posted on Facebook by Herp Digest:

http://www.wmctv.com/story/19467904/gra ... nationwide

I think there is an educational opportunity here, but I think the way the snakes are handled is a concern. People would be in a uproar if someone handled a mammal in this fashion. But is this an opportunity to help more people learn to properly identify venomous vs. non-venomous snakes and not just to shoot them all?

So, on balance, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

-Frank Hensley
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jayder85
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by jayder85 »

I still dont think it is a good thing. Still looks to me like it will be another bunch of roughnecks that enjoy doing this stuff for the notoriety. Looks to me like they are looking for another slot on the reality show channel that they call Animal Planet. I think that it does nothing more than promote rough and unnecessary handling to the masses to make them wanna "try this at home".
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mywan
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by mywan »

Of the few snakes I do bother to catch it is generally by hand. Watching that video, that they are doing is no way to treat a snake for any reason. They are swinging the snakes around by the tail, to keep them from getting a chance to bite. Snake handling skills demonstrated here is zilch. Just stupid and pointless.
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by mikemike »

I was just about to post on this.... glad someone beat me to it.
Anyhow, I see no good coming from this... at all.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Kelly Mc »

Wow ! Burly Alpha Warriors able to out-maneuver lower vertebrates! . . .

Sorry about your penis!
Tamara D. McConnell
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

Wow ! Burly Alpha Warriors able to out-maneuver lower vertebrates! . . .

Sorry about your penis!
:lol:
This is awesome, Kelly.
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by muskiemagnet »

it appears rather dumb to me. let's just hope they get eaten by a rogue gator. at least it will most likely be short-lived if it gets of the ground at all. or some kid emulates them and gets tagged by a cotton. i'm guessing that would be news worthy.

-ben
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

it appears rather dumb to me. let's just hope they get eaten by a rogue gator.
Agreed.
Terry Vandeventer
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Terry Vandeventer »

I know these guys personally. Pereglenes is also a friend of mine and I feel that he is asking for an honest opinion of us forumites on these guys' actions. Since I am intimately familiar with the situation, I think that I can shine some like on their activities.

They are respected law enforcement officers who do this for relaxation. None of the snakes are harmed. The snakes' feelings aren't hurt and many of the snakes are captured repeatedly over the years with no ill effects. These guys are engaging in harmless fun. They keep a couple of live examples that they display at wildlife events to educate the public. Sure, their videos are silly and corny but they should not be placed in the same class as the trash on Discovery and Animal Planet.

Recently an elequent young man showed pictures of the Timber Rattlesnakes he and his grandfather tonged in Pennsylvania. I stayed quiet on this forum while his photos of snakes that were tonged while in their shedding phases were displayed. Most if not all of them had their skins torn and tattered prematurelly by tonging and pulling them out of brush and rocks. All he got on the forum was kudos. No challenge here for the rough and careless handling techniques on a highly sensitive species.

The "Grab-u-one" guys risk their lives daily (SWAT & DEA) to keep us safe. They never kill snakes. All but two or three snakes (out of hundreds) are released unharmed, and these fellows do their part, face to face, to inform the public about the importance of snakes to people and the environment. They shake the hands of thousands of people every year while educating them to the fact that snakes are essentially good things. They do educational seminars for law enforcement throughout Mississippi. Dare I say that they do more to educate the public than most of the people on this forum? Considering the number of people they encounter, I do say so. Different is not always bad.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by stlouisdude »

It's good to hear that these guys are concerned with the snakes' safety. I do not believe that snakes have never been harmed, though. I've either accidentally killed a kingsnake before or had it feign death and I am incredibly careful. I'm sure I've had another snake or two that I accidentally covered with a heavy rock with unknown consequences (they are easier to miss than people think). Two slimy salamanders also suffered a terrible fate back when I still believed you could turn rocks with a tater rake (in my defense the only training available was a page in the Peterson guide). I think an honest assessment is that a capturing and holding snakes, however carefully, might occasionally result in an injured snake. I'm not saying that it is even an issue, but I just can't believe anyone active in the field does not eventually cause some harm.


I didn't pay any attention to the snake pictures of the "rattlesnake hunter" as the idea of putting a bunch of snakes in a pit seemed an odd practice to me, but if you noticed signs of poor handling a quick but respectful comment may have helped to resolve the matter, though unlikely to change the snake pit practice. There are just too many Indiana Jones fans for that to happen.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Kelly Mc »

People can be sparked with enthusiasm and learn about snakes without buffoonery. They can.

Like all things potentially emulated by watching big shots , so can courtesy.
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periglenes
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by periglenes »

Thanks for weighing in everyone, but especially Terry, since you offer some direct knowledge.

A couple of years ago I grabbed a N. sipedon to show to some of my students, but I accidentally got the tail without realizing it. When I lifted the animal it twisted violently and snapped off most of the tail. I felt terrible.

In my opinion, if you'r going to grab a snake you have to be willing to take a bite (or several). I suppose elbow-length gloves are an alternative. But I think tail grabbing, and in particular, lifting a well-fed snake by the tail, is too likely to injure the animal. I try to catch Nerodia by the mid-body and quickly gain control of the head, but I fully expect at least one bite.

Education that minimizes injury risk for the animal is the best.

-Frank
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mywan
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by mywan »

When I say "Just stupid and pointless" I'm not necessarily passing judgement on the individuals involved. By dad killed every snake he got close to, which was even more stupid and pointless, and he was far from a stupid person. The people involved changes nothing about what I think about the activity.
Terry Vandeventer wrote:I know these guys personally. Pereglenes is also a friend of mine and I feel that he is asking for an honest opinion of us forumites on these guys' actions. Since I am intimately familiar with the situation, I think that I can shine some like on their activities.

They are respected law enforcement officers who do this for relaxation. None of the snakes are harmed. The snakes' feelings aren't hurt and many of the snakes are captured repeatedly over the years with no ill effects. These guys are engaging in harmless fun. They keep a couple of live examples that they display at wildlife events to educate the public. Sure, their videos are silly and corny but they should not be placed in the same class as the trash on Discovery and Animal Planet.

Recently an elequent young man showed pictures of the Timber Rattlesnakes he and his grandfather tonged in Pennsylvania. I stayed quiet on this forum while his photos of snakes that were tonged while in their shedding phases were displayed. Most if not all of them had their skins torn and tattered prematurelly by tonging and pulling them out of brush and rocks. All he got on the forum was kudos. No challenge here for the rough and careless handling techniques on a highly sensitive species.

The "Grab-u-one" guys risk their lives daily (SWAT & DEA) to keep us safe. They never kill snakes. All but two or three snakes (out of hundreds) are released unharmed, and these fellows do their part, face to face, to inform the public about the importance of snakes to people and the environment. They shake the hands of thousands of people every year while educating them to the fact that snakes are essentially good things. They do educational seminars for law enforcement throughout Mississippi. Dare I say that they do more to educate the public than most of the people on this forum? Considering the number of people they encounter, I do say so. Different is not always bad.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer
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gbin
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by gbin »

Looks to me as if their primary purpose in this activity is macho "fun," not educating the public about snakes, raising money for kids with cancer, etc. (And of course what they do for a living, how much they love their country or how they treat their dog is totally irrelevant to whether they deserve criticism for this behavior.) It's even plainly said in the linked video that the "fun" started with one of the guys grabbing a snake in this manner so that he could use it to taunt a frighten friend.

It also looks to me as if they have no regard whatsover for the injuries their "fun" might be causing the snakes involved, and I suspect the probability of injury is fairly high and the actual incidence of injury is totally unknown to them. And, of course, they're teaching this disregard for animal welfare to others.

I understand and admire someone trying to defend their friends, so please don't take any of this as a slam on you, Terry, but from where I sit it looks to me as if their behavior is indefensible. I think Kelly's comments were spot on (and hilariously so, at that :thumb: ), and on the chance that these guys do care at all about matters such as animal welfare, they should be encouraged to learn better techniques for handling snakes or to leave them alone.

Gerry
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chrish
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by chrish »

I agree with Gerry. If these folks were really concerned about the animal's welfare, they would just leave them alone or at least handle them more carefully.

As for the practice being pointless bravado, I agree as well. I feel the same way about catfish noodling.

Maybe these guys could be convinced to start pit tagging the snakes and even weighing/measuring them? Then there would be a point to the whole process. They could have fun and be doing something good at the same time.
I'm sure they could be convinced to gather data and probably find some funding for pit tagging gear. Maybe just scale clipping would work? Seems like an opportunity to bring some folks over from the dark side.
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

Terry,
I respect your wisdom, in general, so I tried real hard to see this from your point of view...and I just can't.
I don't see how what the snake grabbers do for a living has any bearing upon this, either. Being a cop doesn't give you a pass to mishandle animals.
Since you brought the law enforcement thing into it, let me just say that there are good cops and bad cops, just like there are good shoe salesmen and bad shoe salesmen, good nurses and bad nurses, good carpenters and bad carpenters. I know some very good cops. However, I don't buy the idea that a person is inherently noble just because he/she is law enforcement. Some folks are in it for the wrong reasons, and I've met some of them, too.
I'm not preaching from a proverbial mountaintop, because I have certainly mishandled animals, out of ignorance. I think this is what is happening with these cops...they don't appear to know any better. This doesn't make them bad people, but it does mean that they are in need of some herp education.
Perhaps someone who knows them could teach them.
I definitely don't feel that they are setting a good example.
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jayder85
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by jayder85 »

I am still in complete agreement with what I posted previously. And like others have stated, cop. SWAT, grocery bagger, President, it doesn't matter. Nobody can tell me that the handling techniques used is in no way harming the animals that they are catching.
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Eric East
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Eric East »

gbin wrote:Looks to me as if their primary purpose in this activity is macho "fun," not educating the public about snakes, raising money for kids with cancer, etc. (And of course what they do for a living, how much they love their country or how they treat their dog is totally irrelevant to whether they deserve criticism for this behavior.) It's even plainly said in the linked video that the "fun" started with one of the guys grabbing a snake in this manner so that he could use it to taunt a frighten friend.

It also looks to me as if they have no regard whatsover for the injuries their "fun" might be causing the snakes involved, and I suspect the probability of injury is fairly high and the actual incidence of injury is totally unknown to them. And, of course, they're teaching this disregard for animal welfare to others.

I understand and admire someone trying to defend their friends, so please don't take any of this as a slam on you, Terry, but from where I sit it looks to me as if their behavior is indefensible. I think Kelly's comments were spot on (and hilariously so, at that :thumb: ), and on the chance that these guys do care at all about matters such as animal welfare, they should be encouraged to learn better techniques for handling snakes or to leave them alone.

Gerry

I agree with you 100%!
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by muskiemagnet »

all i know is that i would be scared s**tless if a giant, scary animal tried catching me. it's bs. there is no need for it. it is selfish, and has nothing to do with the snakes. if they are trying to educate, then they are doing an even more disservice to the animals by teaching the wrong way. if someone chased down one of their children, and scared the heck out of them, they would be pissed off i guarantee. this is no different. i saw that they tail them without supporting the body. not cool at all. the only time tailing should be done is for hots, and this should only be done with the body supported with a hook. if they are too pansy-ass to accept a bite from a watersnake :lol: , they should just stay home.
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

all i know is that i would be scared s**tless if a giant, scary animal tried catching me. it's bs. there is no need for it. it is selfish, and has nothing to do with the snakes. if they are trying to educate, then they are doing an even more disservice to the animals by teaching the wrong way. if someone chased down one of their children, and scared the heck out of them, they would be pissed off i guarantee. this is no different. i saw that they tail them without supporting the body. not cool at all. the only time tailing should be done is for hots, and this should only be done with the body supported with a hook. if they are too pansy-ass to accept a bite from a watersnake , they should just stay home.
I have to agree with every bit of this.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Grab-U-One - on balance is this good or bad?

Post by Kelly Mc »

But how r folks to learn about the Bandy Waterloo Snake? Who are roger fer slingin cause they got no poison.
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