ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

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tabernaclegary
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ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by tabernaclegary » November 14th, 2012, 5:06 am

From the Philadelphia Inquirer today;
Snakes on a plane: 2 accused of rattler rustling
Two alleged rattlesnake rustlers are facing federal charges in the illegal capture of venomous snakes in Pennsylvania and New Jersey to sell through their mail-order reptile business. Robroy MacInnes, 54, and Robbie Keszey, 47, co-owners of the Glades Herp Farm in Bushnell Fla were indicted Tuesday, prosecutors said. According to the indictment, MacInnes and Keszey made several trips to Easton, Sellersville, and Jim Thorpe Pa, in 2007 and 2008 to illegally trap, and sometimes buy federally protected Eastern Timber Rattlesnakes, returning to Fla on commercial airlines.
The pair bought 15 juvenile and 2 adult rattlers in Easton on one trip. Other trips to the Northeast allegedly took them to the Pine Barrens for King Snakes and NY for Rattlers.

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Ridge Walker
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by Ridge Walker » November 14th, 2012, 8:05 am

Thank you for posting this. There are people that don't believe that poaching of rattlesnakes is an issue in the northeast. Maybe this will help them open their eyes.

RW

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kyle loucks
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by kyle loucks » November 14th, 2012, 12:29 pm

Federally protected... funny.

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kyle loucks
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by kyle loucks » November 14th, 2012, 12:35 pm

Keszey and Macinnes are accused of taking the protected snakes, including the Eastern Indigo snake from the wild in New York and Pennsylvania and transporting them to Florida in 2007 and 2008 so they could be sold at the Glades Herp Farm.


Hard to trust breaking stories... until all the facts are revealed. This is not a defense, just that I see bad reporting and sensationalism in many of these articles.

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roosters977
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by roosters977 » November 14th, 2012, 12:38 pm

I think I may have bought a snake or two from the Glades herp farm if I remember correctly...

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brick911
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by brick911 » November 14th, 2012, 12:41 pm

From Facebook:

Herp Nation's Dan Krull just spoke with Robby Keszey, and he said,"The stories of me collecting snakes illegally in Pennsylvania and New Jersey are completely made up." Much more from Robby on this later at Herpnation.com

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kyle loucks
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by kyle loucks » November 14th, 2012, 1:04 pm

Image


a better article.

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 14th, 2012, 1:44 pm

i dont know who to believe... but if this is true its a sad day for the herp hobby

ugh
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by ugh » November 14th, 2012, 3:17 pm

Kyle can you repost ur link I didnt see anything. I do know most of the stuff they sell on their table is wild caught.

Think of this story next time someone asks you to go herping with them that you may not know so well....


I also wonder how such a story gets 'completely fabricated' as he claims, from a major and (relatively specking) reputable news outlet. Does anyone here suspect the paper found this story so important to include, that they'd hustle it out to press before checking some facts?

I don't. Yes, the 'federally protected' line is wrong of course-I've never read a news story about snakes that didn't get something wrong- but boy it is funny how quick some are suddenly so quick to holler about this guy being innocent till proven guilty...

Lol I love seeing this shit get publicized. Where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust me these guys' balls have BEEN on fire one way or another, hopefully this time they finally got caught.... But they'll live to see another day behind their table, with their smug look on their faces, countin' their cash. Man I wish I could be the one that catches them in the act just once.....

Ah but who knows, more will be revealed.Probably all just a misunderstanding. :lol:

herper1
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by herper1 » November 14th, 2012, 3:24 pm

Well obviosly if its true its bad, my my question is this. Why come to PA and NJ to catch snakes if they are from FL ? I mean I know we have Rattlers and Kings, but wouldnt there be easier places to go and get more?

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paturtlelover
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by paturtlelover » November 14th, 2012, 3:31 pm

I have been to Glades herp in Florida and it's a dump at best. Cages full of snake sheds, crap and emaciated animals. I seen a tank full of 3 striped muds out front with dozens of half dead animals and a few dead ones. There is a case in PA. were a guy was buying timbers from people at the Hamburg show and shipping them to glades . The story goes that he would ship the animals back with all the animals that didn't sell at the show. Never did hear what the out come was.

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roosters977
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by roosters977 » November 14th, 2012, 3:33 pm

Yeah really, the only thing I can think of is the Timbers. I think they are (were) selling on "not allowed" some WC timbers.

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paturtlelover
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by paturtlelover » November 14th, 2012, 3:58 pm

They have Timbers for sale all the time just look on kingsnake. They have been convicted of breaking wild life laws many times in the past. I remember in the mid 90s they imported 100+ 2 inch Mata mata's hidden among fresh water fish. They broke the 4 inch import laws and were fined in addition to losing all the animals. I am sure the large reptile dealers break the laws all the time but the small scale breeders/ hobbiest get the bad rep.

tabernaclegary
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by tabernaclegary » November 14th, 2012, 3:59 pm

since he isn't mentioned by name the Sellersville guy game them up, you don't get indicted unless there is good evidence.
Different story;
Published: Nov. 14, 2012 at 12:04 AM

Fla. snake farm owners charged in Pa.

PHILADELPHIA, Nov. 14 (UPI) -- The owners of a Florida reptile farm were charged Tuesday with trafficking in endangered snakes illegally trapped in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

Investigators said Robroy Macinnes and Robert Keszey, owners of the Glades Herp Farm in Bushnell, Fla., teamed up with a Philadelphia-area man who helped them collect two eastern timber rattlesnakes in the Lehigh Valley and king snakes in the New Jersey Pine Barrens in 2007, Phillyburbs.com reported. An alleged effort to collect more rattlesnakes the next year was unsuccessful.

Keszey has also appeared on a Discovery Channel show, "Swamp Brothers."

Macinnes and Keszey were charged in a federal indictment with conspiracy to violate the law barring interstate trafficking of illegally obtained wildlife. Their alleged confederate was identified only as a Sellersville, Pa., man.

Rattlesnake collecting requires a permit in Pennsylvania, while in New Jersey many snakes are classified as endangered or threatened.

The Pennsylvania man also allegedly agreed to breed two eastern indigo snakes obtained without a permit in New York State and to buy two adult and 15 juvenile rattlesnakes. In late 2008, investigators say, Macinnes told him to dispose of the indigo snakes because the men who collected them had been targeted for a search.

ugh
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by ugh » November 14th, 2012, 4:02 pm

kyle loucks wrote: Hard to trust breaking stories....
Kyle have you not SEEN what they sell on their tables?

Pretty hysterical what some people's eye first sees as suspicious.
"hard to trust"
What I'd find 'hard to trust' is the two guys that MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF SELLING SNAKES .......

especially in a news report about two guys being BUSTED FOR POACHING SNAKES......

But hey that's just me :lol:
unbelieveable.

Lireptiles
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by Lireptiles » November 14th, 2012, 4:07 pm

The federally endangered may have been taken from the fact that Robroy shipped indigo snakes to PA and they are federally protected. Let's hope, if true, they use the Lacey act to its fullest...

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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by incuhead2000 » November 14th, 2012, 5:11 pm

Well I think most of us have learned the hard way to only buy from folks who actually care about the herp hobby and breed at home. If someone has more species of snakes on a table than I can count on my hands that's usually a bad sign.

After reading several books and articles on this topic I highly doubt they will get punished much for their shameful behavior and that kinda sucks. Keep us posted and let us know how far it gets.

dragoncjo
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by dragoncjo » November 14th, 2012, 6:24 pm

I knew of the kingsnake story and its one of the reason I'm as protective as I am. Glad to see something came to fruition and I tip my cap to fish and game for getting the job done. These guys are idiots and are guility of this, don't believe any other BS. This hobby is filled with crooked shifty jerkoffs and its good to see them get busted whenever possible.

dragoncjo
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by dragoncjo » November 15th, 2012, 6:04 am

Who is 'we' you have a mouse in your pocket? I don't need studies and evidence to prove to me that collection is harmful to a population, its common sense. I've seen the effects with my own two eyes and don't need some study to prove that. There are very few TRs left in some northern states from harvesting which is no different then commercial collection for the pet trade. I don't think its natural to have dozens of adult snakes removed from a population in one year and not have some effect. Our obsession with needing to justify common sense with a study is getting carried away. Let the games begin...

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 15th, 2012, 9:26 am

i agree with dragoncjo

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kyle loucks
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by kyle loucks » November 15th, 2012, 1:24 pm

ugh wrote:
kyle loucks wrote: Hard to trust breaking stories....
Kyle have you not SEEN what they sell on their tables?

Pretty hysterical what some people's eye first sees as suspicious.
"hard to trust"
What I'd find 'hard to trust' is the two guys that MAKE THEIR LIVING OFF SELLING SNAKES .......

especially in a news report about two guys being BUSTED FOR POACHING SNAKES......

But hey that's just me :lol:
unbelieveable.
I was merely criticizing the reporting. I am well aware of Glades Herp.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/Nove ... -1351.html

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Andrew G
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by Andrew G » November 15th, 2012, 1:37 pm

dragoncjo wrote:Who is 'we' you have a mouse in your pocket? I don't need studies and evidence to prove to me that collection is harmful to a population, its common sense. I've seen the effects with my own two eyes and don't need some study to prove that. There are very few TRs left in some northern states from harvesting which is no different then commercial collection for the pet trade. I don't think its natural to have dozens of adult snakes removed from a population in one year and not have some effect. Our obsession with needing to justify common sense with a study is getting carried away. Let the games begin...
Word, but if there is one fact of life it is that common sense isn't common. :roll: I am far from an expert on Timbers, but anyone who has read much on their history can see that rampant killing/harvesting have been HUGE factors with their decline (there are certainly other issues including habitat destruction which have had major roles). From what I have read several of the populations that exist in New England are small enough that the removal of several adults could lead to their demise. Obviously the case isn't so dire in every area that timbers live, but as a timber-loving herper I am concerned with their status throughout their range.

Andrew

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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by heavenscloud » November 15th, 2012, 1:45 pm

Assuming it's true, how stupid do you have to be to poach kings from New Jersey? Is there some super-secret chocolate-covered half-caf caramel morph in the Barrens? (Is my cynicism showing? :?)


-Brandon

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 15th, 2012, 2:03 pm

i love timbers there one of the more common venomous snakes in pa granted we only have three if timbers were gone wed have no diversity cause the only common venomous snake left would be copperheads :[

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kyle loucks
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by kyle loucks » November 15th, 2012, 2:19 pm

Poaching is poaching, no matter how common the animal.

dragoncjo
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by dragoncjo » November 15th, 2012, 3:52 pm

Brandon, i asked someone this back in the summer regarding kings and other species here. I was told that new blood is needed in certain county lines. I guess people are trying to get a couple pairs to get new bloodlines, either way I think its lame and i don't really understand much of this as I'm not breeder or owner of snakes.

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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by heavenscloud » November 15th, 2012, 4:28 pm

dragoncjo wrote:Brandon, i asked someone this back in the summer regarding kings and other species here. I was told that new blood is needed in certain county lines. I guess people are trying to get a couple pairs to get new bloodlines, either way I think its lame and i don't really understand much of this as I'm not breeder or owner of snakes.
That makes sense, but it boggles my mind that they would poach and transport a species that goes for what, $50 per snake? It's not like they would have realistically made enough money to even remotely justify taking that risk (unless there's a high demand for these NJ kings on the black market).


-Brandon

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incuhead2000
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by incuhead2000 » November 15th, 2012, 4:32 pm

Poachers = idiots, hope that answers that for everyone. Larga vida a la serpiente de cascabel!

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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by ugh » November 15th, 2012, 4:59 pm

Don't want to detract from good discussion or get too sidetracked here but I think this is very relevant.
John Vanek wrote:
Ridge Walker wrote:Thank you for posting this. There are people that don't believe that poaching of rattlesnakes is an issue in the northeast. Maybe this will help them open their eyes.

RW
Sigh. Of course poaching happens, we just argue there is little evidence that it occurs at a biologically significant level. It might even actually occur at damaging population levels, but we just don't feel there is much evidence to support this as an ongoing problem compared to other more documented causes of decline like habitat destruction.

Populations of this species can absolutely be, and several already have been, either wiped out or badly damaged by poaching/collecting or any other means of removal (its all the same to the snakes), particularly in the cooler/northerly portions of it range. This fact is well-documented and well-known among people that work with and/or are familiar with the Timber rattler.

To question this is perfectly understandable by someone with little or no experience with the species.

For someone with a decent amount of experience with the species, questioning it or implying otherwise is/would be laughable (it just doesn’t really happen from what I’ve found).

For someone that constantly boasts of having worked intensely with the species and comments on them as such to question it or imply otherwise,

IS FLAT OUT IRRESPONSIBLE.


The absolutely only reason I’m addressing Vanek’s comments is because I think there’s some folks that read this forum that just don’t know any better than to ignore or dismiss his repeated remarks on the species that are so erroneous and ill-advised.

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 16th, 2012, 9:22 am

why dont we put trackers in some hand em off to someone and whoever gets them well know and we can put them in jail or fine them or whatever the court wishes

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 16th, 2012, 3:52 pm

thts a canebreak

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axeman2729
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by axeman2729 » November 16th, 2012, 4:06 pm

oh didnt know tht

dragoncjo
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by dragoncjo » November 16th, 2012, 5:09 pm

Brandon your applying intelligent thought to people who are incapable of doing so. I'm sure these idiots ran up and down the coast as part of a trip collecting in each state. I've said it before I'll say it again, poachers are born losers who are losers at every phase of life, they are criminals and have a criminals mentality, they are a drain on society and on this hobby. Good news is I haven't seen the Glades herp dbags since 2008 in the barrens and i've been waiting for them.

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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by herper1 » November 17th, 2012, 6:46 pm

I asked this before, but I still do not understand. Poaching Kings out of the pines? There has got to be an easier way. Ive herped here for years and seen no more then 3 Kings. Do these poachers know something I dont? Do they have an insider? I like to believe there are larger King populations in other parts of the country, but if I was a poacher (and Im not, I hate them) the only thing I would come to the pines for is ticks and chiggers. So I guess my question is, is someone helping or guiding these guys?

dragoncjo
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by dragoncjo » November 17th, 2012, 8:26 pm

I know where they hit while here and its a spot that will certainly turn up kings with regularity. With that said you don't see alot of them, its a snake that for whatever reason is seen less and less. I think it very likely they had a guide or where given instructions were to go, these spots are really big secrets though.

Notread
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Re: ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT!!!!

Post by Notread » November 18th, 2012, 5:57 pm

Wow, another incident close to home. :(

People need to stay the hell away from my areas, not that anything lives here, but still.

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