Herpin' Hounds...

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

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Andy Avram
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Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Andy Avram »

Look at my dog, my dog is amazing. (Bonus points to anyone that can tell me the reference)
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His name is Timber, he is a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, and he can do things like:
Jump over lesser dogs.
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Eat other lesser dogs. (Not the same black dog as above.)
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Take on a car going 35mph and come out on top (well, aside from a broken pelvis and during the incident I guess he was on the bottom).
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Move large branches from my house when hurricanes, such as Sandy, throw them at my dwelling.
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He can also do a number of other things, one of which is to be my herpin’ hound. Which brings me to my real point, which, by the way, is more than just be showing off my dog like parents do with their children. Who here herps with their dogs? I know a few people do. As of now, we haven’t had too many issues, but I haven’t had him in venomous country either. I am curious as to any precautions people take with their dogs, or issues they have come across, specific to herping. Not general things, like keeping them watered and not have them out in hot weather.

Like visiting wetlands in the spring? As of last year, we didn’t hop between wetlands, but if anyone does bring their dogs to wetlands to you ever sterilize the dog? Spray them with a mild bleach solution or what not?

Or herping in venomous territory. Millions of people, and dogs, live around venomous snakes. Is it mostly a non-issue or do you specifically train your dog to obey your commands or avoid snakes?

In the desert, do dogs get nailed by cactus? This is more just me begin curious.

Does anyone have a dog that actually finds herps for them? I saw a show on a dude with Boykin Spaniels (my families last dog breed), that finds box turtles.

Any other stories or pictures of people herping with their hounds?

Here is some of Timber with herps.
With a Queen Snake. Image

With a Milk Snake that the dog actually found! It was his only self-found snake (he has self-found toads before).
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Meeting a large Black Rat Snake basking in some saplings.
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And a smaller Black Rat Snake on a trail.
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I was at a park where some Spotted Turtle surveys happened to be going on. Timber got to sniff some spots.
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It’s winter…

Andy
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Owen
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Owen »

Yeah, but does your dog roll in snake musk to camouflage it's smell? ;)
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VanAR
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by VanAR »

This is my dog, my dog is amazing. (Bonus points to anyone that can tell me the reference)
Does he taste just like raisins? :lol:
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Andy Avram
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Andy Avram »

Owen, I wouldn't put it past him. He has been struck at by a few snakes (including those pictured) and goes nuts barking and dodging them when he comes across them now. We were at my parent's house this summer and there was a snake skin on the steps. He barked at it for about 10 minutes before he grabbed it and ate it.

Van, bonus points awarded!
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pete
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by pete »

I had a lab mix named Maui that loved to flip tin with me. She would eat any rodents that were under the tin and leave the herps for me. When we lived in So Cal you could watch her walk through tall grass and check the spots she veered around. Always would be a helleri or a ruber right there. She was a big mellow happy dog, I miss her still.
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gbin
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by gbin »

Timber looks to be a mighty fine dog, all right! I'm happy for you, Andy!

I just put down the older of my two German shorthaired pointers, Elmo, as he'd gotten to the point were he was suffering too much (all the time there at the end, really) from various problems associated with his advanced age. He was without any doubt the one great dog of my life, and I miss him terribly. When I first got him I seriously thought about training him to hunt snakes with me, and I've no doubt he would have excelled at it as he had an incredible nose, a ton of drive and a gorgeous point, but I decided not to as I realized that part of every pointing dog's training includes a period where due to youthful inexperience he's avidly interested in his quarry but not yet steady on point when he finds it. As wonderful as it would have been to have a snake dog, I just didn't want to risk the possibility of him creeping up on a rattlesnake before he got the hang of things. So instead I had him professionally snake broke (trained to avoid rattlers) so he could more safely accompany me in the field. I did the same with my younger GSP, Fay, too. Simply from being with me and watching what I did when in the field, though, she taught herself to work ahead of me and point out to me any holes in the ground she encounters; back in rural northcentral FL it was gopher tortoise burrows (which she quickly picked up on my interest in, even if she didn't realize it was because I was looking for tortoises or other herps making use of them), but here in suburban northcentral TX it's generally storm drains. :lol:

Gerry
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Ribbit
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Ribbit »

My wife has founded two different dog rescue organizations, and as a consequence we always have three or four dogs of our own, and often a foster dog or two as well. I haven't tried taking any dogs along when I'm seriously herping, but we're often hiking with dogs and I'm always casually herping along the way. We've had one close encounter with a rattlesnake relaxed on a trail -- one of the dogs stepped right over it, but the snake just continued relaxing. Max the miniature pinscher has found one western yellow-bellied racer and a couple of short-horned lizards (I am not counting zillions of fence lizards).

On a trail near a Tucson-area campground, Diva the miniature pinscher had an unpleasant encounter with a loose hunk of cholla, which became attached to the side of her head for a while. So yes, cactus can be a problem.

John
chad ks
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by chad ks »

If this is a post intended for all of us to share our herping hounds, then cheers to a great novel idea for a thread, or at least an idea I've yet to see on this forum.

I'm happy to oblige!

This is Somalia, or Molly for short. She's a purebred American Bull dog Scott type x Johnson type, and I can't image a better dog.

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…she runs like greased lightening passed incredible platter-rocks that are loaded with milk snakes, sprinkling good luck dust all over the place.
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she's frightened by thunder and lightening…
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…but is comforted by awesome herpers…
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And whenever I hop out to look at a massive viridis, she takes over the pilot's seat to ensure safety for all involved…
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She ignores milk snakes, but is fascinated by collared lizards…
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Thanks for the great thread!
hellihooks
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by hellihooks »

We kinda touched on this idea, on another thread, this year... but it certainly rates it's own thread... :thumb:
My son's pit (female, just over 1 yr old) has figured out she gets lots of praise for barking and pointing out 'loose herps' both in and out of the house.
Here she is alerting to a juvie Coach she spotted in the backyard...
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"What is it Girl... show me"
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She flushed it out and it went behind a screen door, I had leaning against the house (which she didn't see happen) She looks at me as if to say "Where'd it go?"
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"Behind the door" I said, and swear to god... she understood :shock: JUMPED over to between the screen door and house and sniffed her way in... :shock: :D
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Why did I have my camera at the ready??? Cause I recognized her distinctive 'herp bark' :D
Gonna take her out in the field, this coming spring, and work on developing her potential, as a 'herp dog' :beer: jim
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dery
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by dery »

Our herping dog is a jackrussel. He always rolls around in snake musk n' such. :lol:
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Dell Despain
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Dell Despain »

Agreed, nice winter thread idea Andy.

Here's my Dog Bob (also a Jack Russell) being held by forum member Cole Grover, w/ Ryan Nafts, and my son Magnus.

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Here he is w/ Jose' Ole, on a milk snake hunting trip. Bob's always a good herping dog, I've never seen him nip at a snake, not even once. Now mice however watch out, he's got murder in his eye for mice.
Often he will dive under the huge rock we just lifted to get after the mice that might be under the rock, which has nearly gotten him flattened by the rock as we drop it back in place.
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Keeping an eye out for mice while we photograph my son w/ a milk.
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The ever intrepid Bob once ruined a good day of trout fishing by chasing a Black bear over a ridge top. It took Cole and I two hours to find him, and we both ended up with a flaming case of poison ivy. Cole still calls Bob an arsshole for that move.
But he's still fun to have on trips, despite his poor decisions at times.
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-Dell
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Andy Avram
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Andy Avram »

Pete, sounds like a great dog!

Gerry, I love German Shorthairs. It was what my family had when I was growing up. I considered getting one, but really didn't want to train a pointer (Timber is trained to retrieve birds when I hunt). Sorry about your old timer. Always sad when you have to make that descision.

John, I think if I gave me fiance an inch she would take a mile and set up her own dog rescue. We each have one dog now (her's is the one my dog is eating in one of the above pictures), but three large dogs seems like a lot. We'll see though.

John V, very cool. Love to see working dogs work!

Chad, awesome. I put up the tread for any and all dog related herping discussion, including showing off your herpin' hounds! Looks like a great dog. Timber also sits where your dog sits when I jump out of the car. Glad you liked the thread.

Jim, great dog. I know that "Where'd it go?" look you have pictured. My dog gives me that look all the time when he is trying to find things.

Dery, or dead fish, squirrels, birds, poop, or other assorted stinky messes. Dogs are great for that...

Dell, great little dog. Chased a bear!!! A little Napolean you got there. I think my dog would chase anything that ran away from him and run away from anything that ran at him.
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dery
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by dery »

Wha?? You calling me stinky??!! :lol:
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nhherp
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by nhherp »

Here is my current group
My primaries are Thain, the Shepard and Sayde is a pit mix.
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We also have Bella . the Dane, seen her behind my son.
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Babycakes (I didnt name her) - a beagle mix found abandoned on the county road at 7 wks.
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I have always kept dogs for two puposes. 1 - the main reason is as family pets 2 -protection. Though #2 is not so prevalent since both my kids have grown up and are no longer small. Lions wont stick around to watch little people when you have 2 or 3 dogs with you, and bears move on once they hear or smell the dogs coming.

When the shepard was a pup he met an atrox under a rock that kissed his cheek...
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He no longer tries to crawl under things into the shade, and the sound of a rattle or smell of musk make him back away and look around.

The pit has run over several atrox and viridis in her life when she wasnt looking. After she is aware of a snake she will not come close.

Here in the desert the primary nemesis is cactus, typically here in central NM its candlestick cholla pieces and every now and then a prickly pear. They learn quickly to watch for them. 'Babycakes" is only 8 months old and growing independent. Thanksgiving weekend we went out and several cholla had dropped some ends in the area we were at. While the big dogs picked their way amoungst them and used their front teeth to pincer out an occasional spine or bud. The pup went willy nilly into them. This result being cholla stuck in the roof of her mouth and all 4 paws. Having to be held down and picked free.
Not pleasant ; but the next cholla pocket we came across that day the pup gave wide berth, careful watch, and delicate teeth to the situation.

Secondary to cactus, is wearing their paws raw on rock.. specifically limestone. Sandstone and granite are not as harsh, but the rough jagged limestone will quickly make it a one day hike for unseasoned paws. I have seen the adventure type people, which the desert often attracts, bring their dogs with them out west and nearly cripple the dog on the first day between the hot sand, cactus, tumbleweed & goathead, heat and rock.

None of my dogs will 'point' a snake, the shepard will chase lizards for fun. The do not care about the box turtles which come into the yard, but seem to believe they have a chance at catching a jackrabbit every now and then. They love water bodies large enough to swim in more then any dog I ever owned in other states I had lived in.

-N-
Jimi
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Jimi »

When the shepard was a pup he met an atrox under a rock that kissed his cheek...
Yep, had that happen. Dogs are TOUGH! Take a snakebite to the head, skip dinner & have a rough night, then - good to go!!! at breakfast. I mean, all this with no vet (way out in the boonies, not dick owner). Tough, tough animals.

I also agree with much said here about cactus: dogs are just a hopeless, hopeless cactus victim a time or two, then tend to learn. ("Whoa, cactus sucks!") Some places (overgrazed places especially) there's just so damned much of it they can't help but get all pin-cushion though. Bring good tweezers and maybe some sliced hot dogs ("being-good treats"). I've never had a spine in the eye with a dog, but that scares me.

Super-rough rock (limestone, & really rough basalt) on the other hand is just a bastard for shredding paws. (Jesus, look what it does to Vibram & leather.) Good, stay-on dog booties help here. Also to consider - the heat, the sun, the dry. Kill a dog quick.

A smart dog and a good trainer/handler are an awesome duo - there is just so much you can do together. Otherwise, leave the dog at home on your herp trips, or somebody won't be happy. Probably you - dogs are always happy!

Cheers,
Jimi
hellihooks
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by hellihooks »

I like Cholla... have several in my back yard, for Cactus Wrens to nest in... the dogs learned faster than my kids did... and make less noise when pulling the spines... :roll: :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol:

And... thinking about 'herping dogs'... a herping buddy of mine (back in the 70's) had 2 well-trained dogs that would go with us... a pit bull that stayed at heel ... and a shepard he'd tell 'Patrol' that would maintain a 200 yrd perimeter around us... and if we so much as stopped walking... would come roaring up in like 15-20 sec... :shock:
While they didn't actively 'herp'... they would sit side-by-side (while we dealt with herps)... till they got their next commands.
Oh yeah... my buddy's pet Raven, Jake, would fly along from tree to tree with us, or circle overhead... :shock: I know... sounds crazy...but true... :beer: jim
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gbin
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by gbin »

I didn't have a dog when I lived in AZ, but the people I shared a house with had a dog and two cats and that helped make up for it. :) None of those pets ever had a problem with cholla while I knew them - I suppose they'd already learned their lessons before I came along - but all three of them had considerable, ongoing issues with foxtails. They're spear-like grass seed heads that readily catch on a pet's coat (especially the aforementioned dog, which had a short, curly coat) and then burrow into its flesh and cause problems there. Nasty stuff.

I somehow never learned to avoid getting stuck by cholla whenever I went afield, myself. Indeed, friends joked that I was something of a cholla magnet. :? I learned to always carry a comb with me to remove the stuff, and otherwise shrugged it off.

Gerry
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nhherp
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by nhherp »

hellihooks wrote: a herping buddy of mine (back in the 70's) had 2 well-trained dogs that would go with us... a pit bull that stayed at heel ... and a shepard he'd tell 'Patrol' that would maintain a 200 yrd perimeter around us... and if we so much as stopped walking... would come roaring up in like 15-20 sec... :shock:
While they didn't actively 'herp'... they would sit side-by-side (while we dealt with herps)... till they got their next commands.
Interesting note on your friends shepard. I had an old dalmation when I first moved back to the desert, he taught the shepard how to take care of the family. Now our shepard Thain operates the same way for us, running the same large diameter around his people during the day, and coming to to check regularly. At night though he drops back to about a 50feet radius from us. When we camp, he gets up every 45 minutes or so and does a 100 foot loop around camp.

The pit, like your friends, is much more immediate to her people and is seldom more the 20 feet from her us on hikes. She sleeps in the tent which my wife is so insistent on bringing, and only gets up at night if Thain says there is reason. Otherwise she arises for an early AM patrol just prior dawn.

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-N-
hellihooks
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by hellihooks »

German Shepards are perfect patrol dogs... they have the longest attention span of any dog. Next to a HUGE Old English Mastiff I had, GS's have always been my favorite dogs... :thumb:
I am getting rather attached to my son's bonehead pit... something I never imagined happening... :roll: :lol: :lol: jim
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bigdonniebrasco
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by bigdonniebrasco »

chad ks wrote:If this is a post intended for all of us to share our herping hounds, then cheers to a great novel idea for a thread, or at least an idea I've yet to see on this forum.

I'm happy to oblige!

This is Somalia, or Molly for short. She's a purebred American Bull dog Scott type x Johnson type, and I can't image a better dog.

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Thanks for the great thread!
Chad -
Great looking pup! From the photo's I wouldn't have guessed she had any Johnson in her!

I too have a little 100% Scott type Female Am Bully! .. well ... my DAUGHTER does, and lord help any man that tries to get close to her!!!!

11 months old and 112 pounds of muscle!
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She tolerates me for the most part...
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She's a great dog, but her protective drive is a challenge sometimes but only in the house, yard or car. In public she's great.

Don
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jason folt
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by jason folt »

Anyone who gets out in the field with me has met my pooches at least once. We have two rescue pits, or officially "lab/terrier" and "shepard/terrier". They are great off leash and I don't worry too much about them here in sauga territory. You have to worry about the male slipping you some tongue with a ball tap dished out on the way. He is a rough date. Prepare yourself for a large amount a dog to be dished out. We don't have kids so... I promise there is a herp or two in here.

Cid - herper in the making
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Dreaming of wood turtles... (wife made me put the vest on him - he doesn't swim too well though)
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Happy happy happy
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Photographing a rattlesnake
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Then there were two - meet Joy.
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We found one!
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Damn fine pups.

Jason
VICtort
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by VICtort »

I do sometimes take my Labrador with me. She is told to stay, and she does, and not participate by sticking her big nose where she may get in trouble. She is a pleasure to have along. Many others dogs have been a curse when friends brought these untrained curs along, scaring everything or chasing wildlife. I have done avoidance training with her, using an e-collar and frozen Crotalus, to get her to avoid them, but there is still the chance she could step on one the same as us, but I am pretty confident she won't sniff one and get bit in the muzzle or head as is so common. I would feel horrible if my dog was bitten due to me taking her into a snake habitat, thus I think one can make a strong argument for not taking them along...but mine will stay until I am done flipping etc. and we move to the next spot.

I also raise tortoises, so I have trained my dogs to show no interest in them. Despite this, an escaped tortoise was quickly tracked and recovered by my dog, whom no doubt was confused when I suddenly urged her to "hunt it up".

I know some dogs have been trained with varying and sometimes impressive results to find Habus, eastern diamondbacks, indigos and others. I see great potential here...given the talents dogs show at scenting drugs, fruit, explosives etc., I think they really don't care as long as they get the reward...these dogs were on well funded projects and very professional trainers.

I worked in a desert state park, and I have seen real trajedys when dogs encountered cholla cactus. They are often "city dogs", and as soon as they get a cactus ball on their paw, they chew it, big mistake... Local dogs often learn to avoid them, and I have seen some ranch dogs do just fine with cactus in the area. I have often wondered how coyotes manage to avoid chollas, I know foxes, owls and others sometimes get stuck, and even snakes... If you bring a dog to the desert, be sure to keep on a leash, it takes awhile for them to learn. Remember they often encounter cholla balls on the ground...not necesarily attached to a standing plant, so not readily avoided at times. Bring an afro-pick comb, they work great to remove catus. Some hysterical tourist dogs had to be sedated by a vet to clean them up, but I cleaned up a few others who had reasonable and controlling owners.

Vic
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by muskiemagnet »

i like the trhread. it seems to have turned into a "herpin' dog" thread, so i'll post mine.

abby barks at everything small. she tends to dig around anything if she can. the blanding's turts were out nesting this evening, and i think she was trying to help.

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she loves going fishing. she barks at every cast, and i'm afraid she will jump in after any top-water i am throwing. i throw big baits, so a hook-up with the dog would suck.

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abby is ten right now, and her heart is giving out. she has been hanging on with congestive heart failure for about six months now. she still wags her tail all the time, so she will be around until she can't any more. she is my best friend, and she will be missed, but she is not gone yet, so she keeps a smile on my face every day. unconditional love is what dogs bring into one's life. spell dog backwards once. i don't think it is a coincidence.

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-ben
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ThatFrogGuy
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by ThatFrogGuy »

I really like this thread! All I have is Oreo with a box turtle in my yard. After she very cautiously determined it wasn't a threat, she proceeded to follow the entire path it had walked, which I thought was interesting. Hopefully she will find me some more!
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Andy Avram
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Andy Avram »

Excellent additions to the thread guys!

nhherp - Nice pack of dogs. I think my fiance wants a pack eventually. We have the two and she sometimes oogles other dogs. Glad to see your dog recovered from a snake bite. Seems there are many stories out there with dogs bouncying back from rattlesnake bites.

Don, that dog looks like a beast!

Jason, figured you would post. I love how both dogs look so similar in pictures but in life Cid is high-hyper and Joy is so relaxed. We'll have to go on a float trip with all the mutts one day.

Vic, need pictures.

Ben, it was always intended as a show off your dog (and more) post. Your girl sounds like my Timber. Barks at everything in the hopes it will play with him, and I fear if I try top water baits with him, he'll go get them...

Frog, turn that dog into a turtle tracker! A little encouragement and she;ll probably start on her own.
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Fieldnotes
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Fieldnotes »

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My best hunt’n partner Forrest at camper.

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In Fern Canyon

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Forrest with Diablo Range Garters. He's a "blockhead"
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Ribbit
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Ribbit »

Fieldnotes wrote:Image
My best hunt’n partner Forrest at camper.
Forrest is a fine-looking dog. Is that pug-or-space-alien in the background yours as well?

John
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Owen
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Re: Herpin' Hounds...

Post by Owen »

Up close and personal.

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