China post #48, Taiwan!

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Kevin Messenger
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China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Kevin Messenger »

A link to the previous post, 4 days in Shennongjia: http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... =2&t=14217

This one is quite long. I guess I should stop apologizing for that, because it’s not like I can make a short one. If I did short ones, these “entries” would probably be in the hundreds by now.

17 August 2012
Leave Muyu, take a bus to Yichang.
Leave Yichang, take bus to Wuhan.
Leave Wuhan, take plane to Shenzhen
Leave Shenzhen, take taxi to Hong Kong border
Leave HK border, take subway to Dan’s apartment to sleep for a few hrs before flying to Taiwan!

18 August 2012
Originally I had not planned on a trip to Taiwan, but while in Beijing, Dan told me he found tickets for about $200 USD, so it was kind of hard to refuse tickets that cheap. I mean driving from my school back home to my parent’s house costs almost that much. Moreover, we’d be meeting up with one of Dan’s herping buddies, Bill Murphy. Kevin Caldwell was also going to be joining us on the trip. Last year when they took their annual herping trip to Taiwan their numbers were off the charts, something like 30+ Trimeresurus vipers in one evening. I had a ton of lifers in Taiwan to knock off my list.

Oh, another super thing I was excited about was to actually do some road cruising. In all my trips to Asia, I’ve never done any proper road cruising (always had taxis, or motorcycles to choose from, and locations were not that ideal – whatever the case, it’s never really happened). On this trip, we’d be renting a car and a big chunk of our herp adventures would be road cruising, which aside from walking conduits, is one of my favorite methods – because TYPICALLY it produces more than walking habitat. There are a few places out there in the world where walking habitat will yield more productivity than road cruising. The point is I was excited.

Anyway, back to the story:
We woke up after just a couple of hours of sleep. The flight to Taiwan was pretty short, about 2 to 2.5 hrs. Bill was still working (English teacher), so we stopped by his apartment to hang out until he got off. While at his place I picked up his copy of the herps of Taiwan book – which is awesome! Except for the fact that it’s in Chinese… While flipping through the pages, I saw an awesome salamander, Hynobius sonani (not my image, but one from the Taiwan herp book):
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Unfortunately, its range was just beyond where we were going to be herping. In the future, this is definitely going to be a target of mine.

The plan for the day was to walk some habitat up at Tiger Head Mountain, just a short walk from Bill’s apartment. Dan and Kevin were quite familiar with Tiger Head – Bill had to head back to the office for a few hours and was planning to meet us at Tiger Head later that night.

Before the hike we stopped at a little restaurant near Bill’s place – the place had a very Japanese feel to it – for example, you removed your shoes and sat down at the dinner table (no chairs). The food was excellent as is typical of Asia I have come to figure out.

After dinner, we walked over to Tiger Head. The hike was decent, and as usual when I’m at a new place, I’m taking time to photograph everything – all of the new frogs, the new lizards, things that are old hat for Kevin and Dan.

Rana latouchii:
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8:21pm: Cyclophiops major sleeping in a tree (taken with my 50mm macro):
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Same shot, but with Dan’s 100mm-L lens:
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8:28pm: Bungarus multicinctus on the shoulder of the trail, a gorgeous, high contrasting individual that ended up escaping…

8:35pm: Cyclophiops major, sleeping in some grasses:
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Polypedates megacephalum
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8:46pm: krait in some shrubbery beside the trail – this one had a really cool cream colored underbelly.
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Typical krait behavior, hiding the head:
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The tell-tale trait of a krait:
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Throughout the night we saw tons of sleeping Japalura swinhonis lizards, male:
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Female:
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9:41pm: Dinodon rufozonatum – supposedly one of the most common snakes from Tiger Head
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Around this time some rain started, so we booked it to a pogoda to wait for it to die down some. During the rain, Bill was heading up to Tiger Head (he found 2 Dinodons on the way up. Once Bill joined our ranks we decided to do some more hiking:

Big headed frog (Rana kuhlii):
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Bufo [Duttaphrynus] melanostictus:
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Rana latouchii:

This individual had a leech attached:
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The next snake I got really excited about because from a distance it looked like a Pareas formosanus – the local slug eater, but upon closer examination it ended up being a neonate Psammodynastes pulverulentus:
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Next was a rain covered Cyclophiops:
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We finished up the night a little after midnight with two more Dinodons (not pictured). We hiked back to Bill’s place for the night, tomorrow we’d head to Fuxing for some daytime hiking.

19 August 2012
Today the plan was to spend the day at a little mountain town nearby called Fuxing. Bill wanted to take us to an awesome waterfall. Some friends of his joined us too, two guys from Germany and a local Taiwanese girl, Bill’s girlfriend was also joining us for the outing.

On the hike to the waterfall Dan spotted this Swinhoe’s frog (Odorrana swinhonis):

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Once we got to the actual area of interest, we discovered that a recent typhoon changed a lot of the terrain. It is hard to actually tell the magnitude of the size of these rocks, but they were huge:

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While climbing down, we found another Swinhoe’s frog:
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Everyone took a dip:
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Bill’s dog:
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Kevin being cool
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Trying to do a slow shutter with humans:
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After the swim we decided to get dinner at a local place. I really wish I would have taken more shots of the interior of this place, it is hard to describe. Kind of like an old antique shop, but it was a restaurant. Anyway, it was a great afternoon.

Dinner that night:
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Sunset:
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After dinner we headed over to where “the batcave” was, there was a long paved “trail” we had to walk first. One side of the trail was mountain side going up, and obviously the other side was all downhill.

Buergeria japonica
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Rana guentheri
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As we walked we scanned the trees overhead. Within a few mins we had our first snake. Bill spotted the first greater green (Cyclophiops major) far up in a tree (7:28pm):
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It was a huge specimen (not good pics, but the only ones that show the size):
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Then another:

7:32pm, Cyclophiops major
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another Bufo bankorensis
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Then another C. major (7:40pm)…
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And another, 7:43pm: C. major
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Next (7:53pm) was a species that Bill hadn’t seen yet in Taiwan, the Taiwan Mountain Water Snake (Sinonatrix percarinata suriki) – a lifer for me as well. I’ve seen the nominate form both in China and HK:
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The snake was at a distance, so the images were pretty crappy (he’s much harder to see on this shot).
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Then another lifer, and one of the major species I wanted to see while in Taiwan: Trimeresurus stejnegeri (Green tree viper/ Bamboo viper/ Stejnger’s Viper)

7:58pm: Trimeresurus s. stejnegeri (lifer)
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Some more Odorranas:
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Another T. stejnegeri 8:06pm, in ambush:
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Odorrana swinhonis:
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Bufo bankorensis
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On the return hike, we found a Dinodon rufozonatum (8:22pm):
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A Green tree viper (GTV) from a distance (8:28pm):
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8:35pm: C. major
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and finally one more C. major at 8:39pm (not pictured).

After we finished the hike it was time to head on to the main herping area – the place we’d be herping for the next 2-3 days, BaLing. We all loaded in our respective cars/ motorcycles and hit the road. The Germans were leading the way. They had class the next morning, but decided to drive the 2 hrs down to Baling with us anyway to herp for the night, then they’d drive back home after we were done road cruising.

The Germans turned around a corner, and when we made it around their brake lights were on and everyone was jumping out of the car. Nothing was in the road between them and us. We jump out and ask what they saw. They said they had just straddled a large thin snake, it was in the middle of the road seconds ago, but now it was off. We figured it was likely gone. We all started looking on the shoulder. One side of the road had a concrete barrier. Dan looked over the edge, “here we go” – we looked in his direction. We saw a Boiga kraepelini seconds away from escaping down the embankment. Kevin and Dan grabbed it by the tail. It was a decently sized animal.

9:52pm: transit, Boiga kraepelini
Here are some shots of the animal taken at a later date:

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We bagged the snake, took coordinates, and kept on heading toward our destination, we weren’t far now.

When we got to the bed and breakfast in Baling, the Germans kept on driving down the road we’d be road cruising that evening while we headed over to the bed and breakfast to secure our rooms. There are two places to stay in Baling, the preferred bed and breakfast, and then the lesser preferred B & B. The preferred B & B was booked for the evening, so we had to go to the lesser one for the night. When we pulled in, the owner recognized Kevin and Dan from last year. She said that she had a snake and sent her husband inside to fetch it. The guy came out with one of those crappy plastic type snake bags (for holding seed or grain) – inside the bag was another bag…. We were wondering what species would possibly cause them to double bag like this, perhaps a Deinagkistrodon?? When we opened the 2nd bag, inside was a gorgeous Taiwan beauty! We pulled it out to admire it. The owner said she was going to take it up to Taipei to eat it with some friends…

We asked if we could hold on to it for a day or two so we could photograph it. They agreed. We were going to see if we could possibly buy it from them, or failing that, just release it and make something up.

While getting the rooms squared away, the Germans called and said they found a huge snake on the road, but didn’t know what it was and may need the tongs (which we had), so we all jumped in the car and drove up to meet up with them. We pulled up behind them and asked them where it was, they pointed up ahead in the lights, on the mountain side of the road there was a large snake coming out of one of the holes in the concrete embankment. The mountain side was basically like the setting in Hainan where the cobra escaped:
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(Except that the embankment continued going all the way up)

We slowly approached the snake, it was hard to ID from such a difference. We finally got close enough to ID it, it was a Taiwan beauty, but as soon as we were close enough to ID, it withdrew back into the hole. I took coords, and labeled the waypoint “beauty hole” – not picking up on obviousness of the statement until Dan started laughing.

So back to the night, 11:02pm was the beauty snake

A few minutes later (11:17pm) we drove up on this heart breaker, a would be lifer, a fresh DOR Sinomicrurus macclellandi swinhoei – Taiwan coral snake:
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11:28pm GTV, in ambush in a creek. On the ground, not in an arboreal ambush position:
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11:34pm GTV, in ambush next to the road:
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11:37pm, a would be lifer, a DOR Chinese habu (Protobothrops mucrosquamata)

12:30am to 1:16am:
We made it up to the top of the road, there was a little resort up there. We parked the car and walked around the area. I heard some frog calls and walked over to a small man-made pond, which was full of some Rana adenopleura:
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Walking in the vicinity of the pond we ended up turning up 5 Dinodon rufozonatum and 1 GTV.

(if you listen in the background, you can hear the calls of R. adenopleura)



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Walking around, I looked in a hole in the wall, and found a Dinodon in it. It had a meal in it. It was a very large and dark individual:
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In the parking lot there was a juvie:
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Now that we reached the top, it was time to cruise all the way down, and then repeat of course.

1:35am GTV
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1:51am Lycodon r. ruhstrati

2:35am GTV

2:54am Lycodon

3:18am juvie habu (lifer), with a meal:

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3:38am DOR Sibynophis chinensis (Chinese mountain snake):
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That was it for the night, road cruising until 4am, that’s my kind of night! It was great.

20 August 2012
We sort of slept in… Before we left this bed and breakfast, we grabbed the captive Taiwan beauty and headed up the road to the other bed and breakfast, hoping that the owners wouldn’t ask about the beauty snake, which they did not.

We got our new rooms at the new bed and breakfast (which is almost beside the first one). Here are some shots of the scenery outside our window:
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As we left the bed and breakfast to go do some daytime stuff, we stopped in town to pick up some beverages. While in the shop, someone struck up some conversation with the shopkeep and brought up the topic of herps. The clerk immediately perked up, he bent down and brought out some containers of some arthropods and a glass lizard (Ophisaurus harti).

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He found it crossing the road we were cruising a few days after a typhoon. These guys seem to be way more fossorial than the North American Ophisaurus.

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On the drive up the road, we stopped to refill Bill’s motorcycle, but we realized we didn’t have any funnels, so we cut up some bottles and made a makeshift funnel.
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Hiking around in the daytime, adjacent to the road:
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Dan
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Bill
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We found a diurnal GTV at 3:56pm

Once we got up to the top of the resort, we started flipping some rocks. Dan flipped a vinegaroon with some young on her back:
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While up at the top, we had a light drizzle, and some clouds were forming. It was starting to get late, and we figured we should start heading back down to the cabins and get our gear for the night, eat some dinner while down there. We started heading down the mountain. I could see up ahead a very obvious snake, it looked like a stout log. As we neared, we noticed it was a DOR, we pulled up to it and I looked out the window: “no f---ing way…..”. We pulled the car over and everyone got out and walked back to the super fresh, still responsive DOR. An Ovophis monticola, a species that was very high on my list.

5:44pm Ovophis monticola:
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Mountain vipers are a really cool viper. Typically found in the higher elevations and fairly secretive. As the genus implies, they lay eggs instead of live birth, like so many other Asian vipers. This was another species Bill had never seen before. The year before he found a DOR Sharp-nosed viper (Deinagkistrodon acutus) on this road. Now another rare and awesome species – this was definitely a cool road. Well this was certainly a downer for all of us, but it gave us hope that we might find one later on…

We headed down to the bottom of the mountain, grabbed some dinner, grabbed our gear and started our road cruise for the night. As we drove up the road, we noticed two obvious herpers walking the road, shining the shoulder. We stopped and asked how their luck was. One was a herper, the younger kid, the other was a teacher or something, much older guy, not a herper. The kid said he met the guy on the bus ride over to the area. The whole thing was a bit sketchy. We asked where they were staying – he said he was planning on sleeping up by the resort.

Ok, well we wished them good luck and headed up the road. We gave the kid our cell. A few minutes after departing, we got a text “collar snake” or something like that. “Maybe he means Sibynophis, sometimes called the collared snake. Or maybe he’s talking about a collared reed snake (Calamaria)?” We turned the car around and drove up to the pair, there in the shoulder/ gutter, under some leaves was a CORAL snake! Sinomicrurus macclellandi, the same as the DOR from yesterday.

7:48pm coral:
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we should have bagged the little guy and spent more time with photos, but we didn’t…. so those were my best photos.

The next snake was a big surprise for me, as I thought these guys were primarily diurnal.
8:30pm Elaphe carinata
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This region had a different species of Japalura, Japalura brevipes, the short-legged tree lizard:
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8:48pm Lycodon
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9:10pm GTV
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10:29pm Lycodon

10:32pm GTV
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A gorgeous Bufo bankorensis:
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10:48pm Lycodon
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11:03pm another Elaphe carinata (king ratsnake)! Two in one night. Very weird.
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Switched lenses with Dan, using his 100mm L lens:
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The kid wasn’t far from us when we found the king rat:
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Bill with the king rat:
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Dan with the king rat. This shot looks like its tickling his neck:
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And here the king rat got too close. Had it been an ill-tempered individual, it could have easily got him on the face:
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11:47pm another GTV in ambush:
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When I startled him, he dropped down into the leaf litter and hid under the leaves:
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1:36am DOR Lycodon

1:48am Dinodon in a hole. I actually saw this guy while we were turning around in a cul-de-sac:
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2:07am GTV

2:17am DOR GTV

2:23am DOR GTV

2:35am GTV

2:42am Dinodon

21 August 2012
1:33pm Boiga DOR
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1:46pm Krait DOR (this individual was about 4’ long)
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1:50pm DOR Lycodon

1:56pm DOR greater green

The primary goal today was a photo shoot. We still had the Taiwan beauty that we rescued from the hotel owner that we hadn’t photographed, as well as the king rats.

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Dan and Kevin
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Kevin photographing the beauty
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Then the king rats:
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For a concept of size:
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After the photo shoot, we got some dinner, and started our road cruising.

7:00pm GTV
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9:06pm Dinodon
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9:18pm Dinodon
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9:43pm Dinodon

10:02pm anerythristic Dinodon! pretty cool
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Compared with a normal:
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I’m usually not a fan of the green leaf photos, but it was hard to get the both of them to cooperate at the same time.
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10:07pm Dinodon

Some arthropods, not sure which kind of behavior I was observing, I suppose likely conflict, not a weird courtship ritual of some kind:
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12:00am Habu, large adult
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Bill photographing the habu
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Look at all those L-lenses…
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well originally we were thinking this was going to be it for the night. Things seemed to be winding down, and tomorrow we were leaving. Kevin wasn’t feeling super, so he definitely wanted to stop by the “hotel.” After dropping Kevin off, Bill says “well should we do another pass?” Even I was ready to give in for the night. I was extremely impressed with his all-nightlong attitude. That is how I used to road cruise all the time. So we all jumped back in the car and started heading out for another pass. On the drive out of the “driveway” I made commentary about how the only krait we had seen was the one DOR, yet elsewhere in Taiwan, kraits seemed to be super common (much like they are in HK). A few seconds later, there on the driveway, there’s a krait crossing the road.

12:38am krait (Bungarus m. multicinctus)
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12:52am habu

12:56am GTV way up in a tree – about 30 or 40 ft up:
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12:59am DOR Dinodon. While we stopped for it, Kevin shined a light in a nearby hole and spotted a habu inside:

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1:14am Dinodon

1:30am habu

1:34am DOR Sibynophis chinensis

2:34am GTV, in possibly the worst ambush position possible (essentially on the road itself):
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3:56am DOR Zaocys [Ptyas] dhumnades oshimai (DOR lifer…)
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Last thing for the night, we released the captive Taiwan beauty that was originally intended for consumption (for “good skin”):

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I’m very glad Bill convinced us to make another run!

When we got back to our room, there was a gecko (pretty sure Hemidactylus bowringi) with a bifurcated tail on the wall:
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22 August 2012
11:21am DOR Amphiesma sauteri
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The road:
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11:53am DOR habu

12:17pm DOR GTV

The final parting shot, before we split up and headed to the airport:
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(Dan Rosenberg, Kevin Caldwell, myself, and Bill Murphy)

Taiwan Herp List (18 August to 21 August) * = lifer
1. Amphiesma sauteri* (n = 1)
2. Boiga kraepelini* (n = 2)
3. Cyclophiops major (n = 10)
4. Dinodon rufozonatum (n = 21)
5. Elaphe carinata (n = 2)
6. Elaphe taeniura friesi* (n = 1)
7. Lycodon r. ruhstrati (n = 10)
8. Psammodynastes pulverulentus (n = 1)
9. Sibynophis c. chinensis (n = 2)
10. Sinonatrix percarinata suriki* (n = 1)
11. Zaocys dhumnades oshimai* (n = 1)
12. Bungarus multicinctus (n = 4)
13. Ovophis monticola makazayazaya* (n = 1)
14. Protobothrops mucrosquamata* (n = 8)
15. Sinomicrurus macclellandi swinhoei* (n = 2)
16. Trimeresurus s. stejnegeri* (n = 28)

1. Bufo bankorensis*
2. Bufo melanostictus
3. Buergeria japonica*
4. Fejervarya limnocharis
5. Rana [Hylarana] guentheri
6. Rana [Limnonectes/ Paa] kuhlii*
7. Odorrana swinhoana*
8. Polypedates megacephalum
9. Rana adenopleura*
10. Rana guentheri
11. Rana latouchii

1. Hemidactylus bowringi
2. Japalura brevipes*
3. Japalura polygonata xanthostoma*
4. Sphenomorphus indicus

A link to the next post, #49, "HongKong pre-Noel": http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... =2&t=15648
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Sam Bacchini
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Sam Bacchini »

Great post, I always enjoy your photography and narrative!
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herpseeker1978
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by herpseeker1978 »

Wow! Great post as usual! That beauty snake was awesome! Love those green vipers as well!

Josh
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kkchome
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by kkchome »

Great report! I'm really looking forward hitting Taiwan again after the weather warms up.
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Ruxs
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Ruxs »

So many snakes! Great post as usual...
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by MaartenSFS »

Taiwan is epic! Hans is such a bastard for not being satisfied with that! :P
It looks similar to here, with similar scenery and herps, but those numbers... The Tiger Head area sounds like Yaoshan but without the scooter gangs and with many more herps! The proximity to these amazing places is crazy. It seems like the environment in HK and Taiwan is just a lot better or what?!!! Then again, there is no shortage of DORs on the road here. I just don't get it.

Anyways, I'm jealous, as usual. It was interesting that you found so many snakes in roadside drainage holes. I think I have seen those around here as well, so I'll have to be on the lookout. Do you prefer Taiwan or HK now? Tough choice, right? The only thing Taiwan lacks, really, is the kings. The diversity of habitat and other species make up for the lack of any other missing species, I'd say. Strange that Taiwan and Hainan are even on the same latitude and not that far apart yet you didn't find as much there.
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Hans Breuer (twoton)
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) »

Awesomeness in spades. Been waiting for this post, and it didn't disappoint. Thank you, Kevin!

The Lycodons you show here are L. r. ruhstrati

The "Big-headed Frog" (whence this common name?) is better known as Kuhl's Fanged Frog. It has two blunt, bony protrusions in the lower jaw that make it look like a hippo when the mouth is open; these "fangs" are not used for procuring food, only for fights with mating rivals.

When did Ptyas dhumnades become P.d. oshimai?

BTW, technically this is not a "China post"... Taiwan is NOT a part of China. But I guess that's a matter of the title format rather than a political choice :-)

PS: Maarten, never being satisfied is a big part of the collective German psyche. That's why our cars are so good :-)
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by MaartenSFS »

Well, if I could choose Borneo I perhaps would not be satisfied with the Republic of Taiwan either! *CCP ninja star crashes through window and slices through Maarten's neck*
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AndyO'Connor
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by AndyO'Connor »

Dude these posts make me happy every time, I've decided that Taiwan, China, Borneo, etc. need to be visited. The king rat's heads almost remind me of a king cobra when they are relaxed and not flattening out. Thanks for being so thorough with documenting all parts of your adventures, the people, scenery, food, and other wildlife shots are appreciated and make the area much more tempting to visit to me.
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Kevin Messenger »

MaartenSFS wrote:The proximity to these amazing places is crazy. It seems like the environment in HK and Taiwan is just a lot better or what?!!! Then again, there is no shortage of DORs on the road here. I just don't get it.

Do you prefer Taiwan or HK now? Tough choice, right? The only thing Taiwan lacks, really, is the kings. The diversity of habitat and other species make up for the lack of any other missing species, I'd say. Strange that Taiwan and Hainan are even on the same latitude and not that far apart yet you didn't find as much there.
Hey Maarten, yeah I'd say the environment in Taiwan and HK are much better than typical protected areas in China. I know there are some gems in China, but speaking on averages, Taiwan and HK would be better. As for which do I prefer, Taiwan or HK? That is a tough one. Taiwan does have more overall, and more salamander species (HK only has 1) - but as you say, no kings. But Taiwan has Deinagkistrodon, and Russell's.... I think in the long run I'd like Taiwan more. The major difference is size. HK might be 1/20th the size of Taiwan. To be official, let's look it up:
Taiwan, square KM = 36,000 (total herp species = 125)
HK, square KM = 1,000 (total herp species = 101)

ok, so HK is 1/36th the size of Taiwan and almost has the same number of species... If you account for size, HK is way more "concentrated." About the furthest trip you could make in HK, from one extreme to the other, is maybe 4 hrs. Taiwan is obviously much larger. But that coin has two sides of course - some ppl would say a small place is a con, others would say it's a pro. I think that's why in the long run I'd probably vote for Taiwan, but it would most likely take me several years to reach that mentality.

As for the comparison between Hainan and Taiwan, they are worlds apart, and hundreds of miles. Taiwan is on par with Shanghai, right? Latitude wise. So quite different from Hainan.
Hans wrote:The Lycodons you show here are L. r. ruhstrati

The "Big-headed Frog" (whence this common name?) is better known as Kuhl's Fanged Frog. It has two blunt, bony protrusions in the lower jaw that make it look like a hippo when the mouth is open; these "fangs" are not used for procuring food, only for fights with mating rivals.

When did Ptyas dhumnades become P.d. oshimai?

BTW, technically this is not a "China post"... Taiwan is NOT a part of China. But I guess that's a matter of the title format rather than a political choice
Thanks Hans, Taiwan was definitely a lot of fun and I could easily see myself living there for some years. Pretty sure the first time we found a Lycodon I referred to it as L. r. ruhstrati, and from there on just said Lycodon, since there is only one species in Taiwan.

Very cool about kuhlii, definitely didn't know about the teeth.

I thought I read that the subspecies found in Taiwan was oshimai - I thought it came from the Taiwan herp book. It's back at the office right now, so when I go in this evening, I'll look it up again. I could have been mistaken, but I don't know where else I would have gotten that information.

And yes, it is a "China" post since it happened during the "China trip of 2012," not because of political boundaries - so even when I have the post on Thailand, it will most likely be titled "China post #51 - Thailand"
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Dr. Dark
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

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Once again, AWESOME post! That is an awful lot of success for 4 days! Kudos! Love that adult Habu...gorgeous animal...like an Asian Fer-de-Lance!
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by MaartenSFS »

Although technically Hainan and Taiwan aren't on the same latitude they do share a very similar climate and vegetation zones. Shanghai is quite a bit further north than both of them. I'm glad that HK and Taiwan are so great, but I wish the mainland had such herping paradises. I eagerly await your Thailand report. Also, let me know if you have done any more maps of all of the species. My wife and I just bought an apartment in Xincheng county, Laibin prefecture, Guangxi, which is over five hours southwest of here and just across the Pearl River, which seems to be a large distribution limiter. The climate there is usually more than five degrees warmer than Guilin in winter.
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Kevin Messenger »

here's the newest map, made last night. Yeah, I was quite tired when I responded, Taiwan is nowhere close to Shanghai (well, it's closer to Shanghai than it is to Hainan), but I'm still surprised the two are classified as the same sort of climate. Taiwan is way cooler (in temps).

Still working on plenty of others. Writing the computer code is the hard part, which I do not know yet how to do

Happy to hear about your new apartment, and I'll most likely get to your email later on. I'm on a nocturnal schedule right now, so I just got up not too long ago.

Image
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by MaartenSFS »

The southern portion of Taiwan and Hainan are actually tropical monsoon climates and it has more to do with the ocean currents. Here is another map that I prefer:
http://www.chinatouristmaps.com/assets/ ... rature.jpg
You need to look for a better version of this map to see it clearer (China hates Google). Type in "China January average temperature map" and you should get a good one. The new apartment is in the dark orange in Guangxi, whereas I'm in the light orange, so it's a warmer climate with shorter winters! It's almost right on the Tropic of Cancer. It's like Yangshuo without the people and Damingshan is quite close.
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Kevin Messenger »

wow, very cool map. Definitely some data there I need to try and incorporate. Thanks for the link, now if I can find the data....
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

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I see you are in bat-mode again. Yes, I will send you my big climate map. Data is hard to come by.
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by Kevin Messenger »

Hans Breuer (twoton) wrote:When did Ptyas dhumnades become P.d. oshimai?
Hans, here's the book I was using while in Taiwan:
Image
(it was Bill's copy, and he was awesome enough to give me his copy - we looked in HK for a copy, but couldn't find one. It's dated 2009 - is there a newer book out there?)

Here's what they say about the keel-backed ratsnake (in the upper right you can see the subspecies they provide):
Image

Image

Perhaps it changed since 2009? I wouldn't be surprised with how quickly everything changes these days...
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MaartenSFS
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by MaartenSFS »

I love how in Hongkong and Taiwan you can get the cool field guides we are used to having in our own countries, but I must admit that it is exciting to always have to search to find IDs with a small chance of finding something new in China. :twisted:
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numpty
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by numpty »

Great post ... I've always been more into the amphibians, but this makes me look forward to the warmer weather and a chance to see some of those beautiful snakes (but probably only a fraction of what you saw).

Incidentally, I think the Polypedates megacephalus might actually have been a Polydedates braueri. Apparently the indigenous Taiwan population was reclassified in 2011 after a DNA analysis. The physical differences seem pretty minor to me, but what do I know. Mind you, there are supposedly some P. megacephalus living as aliens here too, especially in coastal and lowland areas, so maybe you did see P. megacephalus after all. Okay ... forget all that.

Oh, and kudos for rescuing the beauty snake. "Good skin" ... really!
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

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The Reptiles and Amphibians of Taiwan book is available from Chimaira in Germany:
http://www.chimaira.de/gp/product_info. ... 44998674a6
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

Post by moloch »

Excellent report, Kevin. You found so many herps. Loved the little Coral, a nicely coloured little elapid.

Regards,
David
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

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numpty wrote:Incidentally, I think the Polypedates megacephalus might actually have been a Polydedates braueri. Apparently the indigenous Taiwan population was reclassified in 2011 after a DNA analysis. The physical differences seem pretty minor to me, but what do I know.
That is really cool (potentially) about the Polypedates. As I have already mentioned, it would surprise me to have it split up. Polypedates is such a massively wide ranging species, you'd expect an island population to at least be a little bit different. You don't happen to know how long ago Taiwan split from the mainland do you? If it ever was part of it. Most "cryptic" species that wind up getting split due to DNA and not morphological reasons are that way. It's one thing I don't really care to much for. I like things you can see. I understand the reasoning behind breaking things up soley on DNA, but I just prefer other things to go along with it - like maybe Polypedates braueri calls at a different pitch? or frequency? if that was the case, I'd be far cooler with them saying "yep, this is P. braueri.

You should go look for that Hynobius and post pics of it. That is a sexy salamander
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Re: China post #48, Taiwan!

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Kevin Messenger wrote: That is really cool (potentially) about the Polypedates. As I have already mentioned, it would surprise me to have it split up. Polypedates is such a massively wide ranging species, you'd expect an island population to at least be a little bit different. You don't happen to know how long ago Taiwan split from the mainland do you? If it ever was part of it. Most "cryptic" species that wind up getting split due to DNA and not morphological reasons are that way. It's one thing I don't really care to much for. I like things you can see. I understand the reasoning behind breaking things up soley on DNA, but I just prefer other things to go along with it - like maybe Polypedates braueri calls at a different pitch? or frequency? if that was the case, I'd be far cooler with them saying "yep, this is P. braueri.
Sorry for missing that you'd already mentioned this. I guess there are physical differences ... "meshing" on the hind thighs of the braueri, as opposed to "spotting" on the megacephalus, and also some differences in the call ("stronger" for the braueri, I was told), but it's still hard to distinguish for the novice such as myself.

Here's a link to the paper describing the species separation, though I haven't got round to buying it. I'm sure some of my vagueness about the species' differences would be cleared up if I did.

http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2011/f/z02744p061f.pdf

I don't want to sound too authoritative on the subject of Taiwan's geology, but Wikipedia tells me that there was a land bridge between Taiwan and the mainland until 10,000 years ago.
You should go look for that Hynobius and post pics of it. That is a sexy salamander
I did! A couple of pics are here:

http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... =2&t=13727

I'm actually hoping to get out to the Central Mountains next week to have a look for Hynobius fuca, though it's a bit of a logistical undertaking, with no guarantees.
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