Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

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bobassetto
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by bobassetto »

i glad none a youse guyz herp south philly......our spots are all safe from your lame exploitation... :P :P

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Fundad
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Fundad »

i glad none a youse guyz herp south philly......our spots are all safe from your lame exploitation... :P :P
What are you talking about :?: , I am coming up in the fall to poach all your Frogs and Salamanders.. :lol: :lol:

Fundad

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rpecora
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by rpecora »

I found my only willardi, a gravid female, out in the open. I'm glad you two came to an understanding.

Crotalus
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Crotalus »

Yea, that rattling willardi diving for the rocks is a collector/method bias IMO.

-JJ

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rpecora
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by rpecora »

Yea, if it didn't rattle I probably would have walked right by it. There was no cover for this one though, no well of rocks to escape to, no thick brush, just a rare lucky find I guess. The blacktail seen the next day shot into the rocks like it had a jet pack on.

Never thought of it as a collector method, but that's usually how you come see most crotes.

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peterknuteberg
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by peterknuteberg »

Isn't the real threat to herping in Arizona, the non stop development? Shopping centers, roads, cars, pollution, houses, more houses, strip malls, another Walmart, another McDonalds, ....and mostly from hordes of people moving from California, Illinois etc. to Arizona to get away from all the hordes that are in our own states?

Herpers generally bring an appreciation and interest in the animals, which spurs on education and more funding, which leads to a better understanding.... How many posts have I seen on this forum by kids that later go into biology and later do really cool projects.

The thing I see here is that human thing where there are little clicks and only some of us know about those really special spots and we are not going to share those with you because you are not in our club.

I can only say that I have really appreciated going to say, "Kansas" and being shown the spots by guys like Chad, a great human being and great herper.....or Mikey Fresh showing me around the everglades, or Pingleton and Justin, or Matt Ignoffo, sharing their knowledge with me. And when a guy comes here from Cali, we try to show him our spots and share what we know with them and in turn are invited out to California to see a whole new world. It is a great circle of sharing and learing.

I know what you mean however, when I go to Snake Road in the fall and see bus loads of people trying to see a snake and then ahead is a crowd of 30, gathering around to see a cottonmouth. It's almost like a circus. This is where the sharing leads to a culture. We are helping to form that culture right here. It's up to us to make the rules. Herping is going to happen. How it happens will depend on us. Hugs to all.

Aaron
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Aaron »

I am in favor of not posting exact localities, exact microhabitats, exact dates and exact hunting techniques(excluding roadcruising and AC) on public forums, and in favor of waiting to post. IMHO it's just common courtesy to locals everywhere and the minimum standard for reducing negative impacts to the animals.

I have nothing against sharing info, I just think public forums are an inappropriate place to share detailed information. Compared to the internet forums, when info is learned from reasearching books, publications and university data it requires alot more time, effort, patience and sometimes money, things which alot of lazy, careless herpers and/or poachers may be reluctant to invest. I think book learning at least helps the user gain somewhat of a greater appreciation and sense of responsibility.

With info obtained via personal communication especially, there is a much greater opportunity screen against potentially unethical personalities and to pass along higher standards of conduct on those "students" who seem most willing to learn and practice ethical herping. Most importantly personal communication is the most sure way to impart a sense of responsibility and accountability on the "student".

I don't think this is sour grapes or selfish. There are a ton of species I still want to find(Timbers, Pines, Indigos, eastern ssp. of kings and milks, etc.) that I know very little about and I would not want to see detailed info posted about them on a public forum.

RobK

Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by RobK »

Paul Lynum wrote:I don't herp SE AZ during monsoon. I'm glad that's when people plan their trips there.
Same here in Colorado, when it snows like crazy and the powder is waist deep, we let all the tourists snag those days. The true natives snowboard when a few rocks are showing on the slopes.

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Steve Atkins
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Steve Atkins »

RobK wrote:
Paul Lynum wrote:I don't herp SE AZ during monsoon. I'm glad that's when people plan their trips there.
Same here in Colorado, when it snows like crazy and the powder is waist deep, we let all the tourists snag those days. The true natives snowboard when a few rocks are showing on the slopes.
I miss the days of hiking berthoud pass when the resorts were crowded

Paul White
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Paul White »

I remember looking at the interstate through binoculars from my back porch, and wondering what the hell made sitting through that sort of traffic for over 100 miles worth it...never did understand it.

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SheriMonk
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by SheriMonk »

I just wanted to mention that I spent a solid week herping Arizona, and only ran into one other herper. This was in August. I have never seen the crowding that is referenced here, during any of my three herping trips to this state.
I hope I never do. :)

Just a quick question about posting pics, I never did post any from my last trip, but if only the animal is shown, and not the background, doesn't that prohibit people from being able to discern the locale? Or is that naive thinking?

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Brendan
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Brendan »

Sheri that may be because you are not spending your time in the spots where the masses go (fortunately for you!) AZ is a huge state and I rarely if ever run into other herpers unless I intend to.
As far as posting a close up shot of a snake in most cases you are fine. Some snakes can be more obvious than others on where they came from and others it really wouldn't matter. If your shots are as good of the ones you posted of the viridis it would be great to see them.

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SheriMonk
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by SheriMonk »

Ok, I will think about that. Honestly, I try to be as low-impact a herper as I can be. I don't touch or hook them unless they need to be moved off a road.
And I don't want to be one of those annoying, out-of-state tourist herpers either. LOL.
On the other hand, your state is genuinely magical to me. And I get so much joy just from sharing the pictures, and it is fin to share that enthusiasm too.
I'll take a look at them and see if any are post-worthy. The most "uncommon" one I found was tigris, so certainly, they are not going to be super exciting. ;)

Thanks for the input.

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Brendan
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Brendan »

Honestly even the most common snakes when photographed well can be as entertaining as the rarest herp posed up on a rock. It sounds like you have a great deal of respect for wildlife in general and that goes a long way and generally shows in your work. If you took the time to take the shots I'd love to see a few. Tigers are an amazing snake and one I spend a lot of time observing. I was fortunate to see some with new babies and some breeding pairs this year.

mikemike
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by mikemike »

I and a couple others just spent a solid week down there herping mostly lesser known spots, but in the well known spots we did hit, and same with my week long trip last year where we herped mostly well known spots, I have yet to run into anyone even remotely resembling another herper. I don't think we encountered a single person that wasn't BP or a ranger in one certain spot.

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Mike Rochford
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Mike Rochford »

I've seen other herpers on two occasions this year and I've been herping all year long. Once was in a well-known locale and the other was very close to Tucson during the Biology of the Rattlesnakes conference because I was trying to conserve gas money but still wanted to see some herps. Otherwise I've been to out of the way places during the "wrong" time of year. I did very little herping during the "right" time of year this year.

That said, I ask this to the local AZ herpers: is it too soon to post pics for the year?

Mike

PS- I know there are still herps to be found!

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azatrox
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by azatrox »

That said, I ask this to the local AZ herpers: is it too soon to post pics for the year?
That's a loaded question Mike....Some would say it's perfectly permissible, while others would get their panties in a twist if you posted in mid-December....

It's your call.

-Kris

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ChrisNM
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by ChrisNM »

azatrox wrote: while others would get their panties in a twist if you posted in mid-December....

It's your call.

-Kris
PHX on south could be in blizzard conditions with 36"+ of snow during the prime of the monsoons and your statement wouldn't be more truer!

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Norman D
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Norman D »

Sherimonk, I love tigers (in my top 3-though I have only seen 10 crote species), and I would love to see photos of it.

Brendan, I am having tigris-withdrawals.

Mike R, I think I may have seen you in the spring. This year was the first time I ran into people in the field (in popular areas) - Rich G, Russ from ASDM, Dave Webber. It was nice to run into some people who are into looking for reptiles - justified that I wasn't the only crazy person looking for rattlesnakes in the dark after working 12 hour shifts.

This forum is a great place to see some great photography, see some cool animals I have never seen, and learn about animals. Some of the threads get too sour, which sucks but pretty much happens on all online forums. There are lots of good points in this (old) thread. The thing that kinda sucks if more people decide not to post photos... then this forum dies.

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SheriMonk
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by SheriMonk »

Norman, you have convinced me - I will post tomorrow (later today, technically).
I was SO excited to see tigris. It was the last night, literally five minutes before we were going to quit. I had given up hope of seeing a new (for me) species and wham! There it was, like a goodbye gift from the state. :)

It is difficult to describe to people that cannot relate, but it really is something special when you feel so connected to a place so far from your own home, and a place you care so much about. I really do hope that the hobby can continue to work out its differences in a healthy way. And not just to ensure sustainability, but because we are all collectively bonded in such a unique way that our differences, when considered in context, are so minute that it would be an absolute crime if any potential friendships or bonds were sacrificed because of it.

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Norman D
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Re: Arizona Herpers and the Herpers from everywhere else

Post by Norman D »

Very cool Sheri and I agree. I am glad Arizona gave you a goodbye gift. There are many people who haven't seen tigris but have seen a lot of the "rarer" stuff.

I know that feeling of finding a new species, especially when you work so hard to find it. There are certain species that get me excited every time even though I have seen them plenty before.

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