There has been a discussion on the International Board of requiring liability waivers on official NAFHA outings.
Should we require signed Personal Liability Waivers at all N.A.F.H.A. organized field events?
Do you agree or disagree with this statement? If not, why not?
Thanks
Dave Weber
AZ Chapter Pres.
Must Read - Liability Waivers
Moderator: Scott Waters
- Biker Dave
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- Location: Wittmann,AZ
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Hold harmless, indemnification agreements, and release of liability are just one part of a legal picture.
If field events occur on private property I could see property owners requiring hold harmless and indemnification agreements signed before allowing an organization to utilize their property. Mind you that these would not cover N.A.F.H.A., but protect the property owners/agents (and most I have had to deal with have also required substantial Certificates of Insurance as well for that specific use).
If N.A.F.H.A. requires releases of liability then they will have to also take steps to create safety protocols, supervision of participants, screening of participants (physically fit enough that the activity by and in itself doesn't pose potential harm) and of course liability insurance coverage adequate enough to realistically cover risk the organization is potentially exposed to. The reasons for adequate protocols, etc.. is that if an organization feels an activity is inherently dangerous enough to make participants aware of the dangers and require the signing of releases then it is in their best interest to follow through with the rest as it helps provide better protection in the event a lawsuit is actually filed.
A qualified attorney in this specific area would be needed to draft the releases, and of course all this costs money.
This discussion also raises questions at an organized level, when do you prohibit minors? Many releases have no bearing what-so-ever with minors, even when a parent or guardian has signed a release for them.
Field herping is an uncontrolled activity with inherent risks and potential for all kinds of unforeseen accidents. We as field herpers are aware of that and we do our best to mitigate potentials for problems every time we go out. From epi-pens and glucose tablets to adequate water and footwear or even something as basic as sunscreen we factor in the needs of our activity and shoulder the burden for our actions.
I know I think too much, and mind you I am not an attorney, but actively sponsoring and organizing an outing does place potential responsibilities upon the organization. In that aspect it may be time for the organization to adopt protocols, guidelines and establish parameters and legal protection up to and including a well composed release of liability.
I personally believe that we as individuals should be responsible for ourselves, and that if we happen to be herping in an area where others are herping fantastic times, learning and camaraderie can occur benefiting all in the experience.
my .02
Riley
If field events occur on private property I could see property owners requiring hold harmless and indemnification agreements signed before allowing an organization to utilize their property. Mind you that these would not cover N.A.F.H.A., but protect the property owners/agents (and most I have had to deal with have also required substantial Certificates of Insurance as well for that specific use).
If N.A.F.H.A. requires releases of liability then they will have to also take steps to create safety protocols, supervision of participants, screening of participants (physically fit enough that the activity by and in itself doesn't pose potential harm) and of course liability insurance coverage adequate enough to realistically cover risk the organization is potentially exposed to. The reasons for adequate protocols, etc.. is that if an organization feels an activity is inherently dangerous enough to make participants aware of the dangers and require the signing of releases then it is in their best interest to follow through with the rest as it helps provide better protection in the event a lawsuit is actually filed.
A qualified attorney in this specific area would be needed to draft the releases, and of course all this costs money.
This discussion also raises questions at an organized level, when do you prohibit minors? Many releases have no bearing what-so-ever with minors, even when a parent or guardian has signed a release for them.
Field herping is an uncontrolled activity with inherent risks and potential for all kinds of unforeseen accidents. We as field herpers are aware of that and we do our best to mitigate potentials for problems every time we go out. From epi-pens and glucose tablets to adequate water and footwear or even something as basic as sunscreen we factor in the needs of our activity and shoulder the burden for our actions.
I know I think too much, and mind you I am not an attorney, but actively sponsoring and organizing an outing does place potential responsibilities upon the organization. In that aspect it may be time for the organization to adopt protocols, guidelines and establish parameters and legal protection up to and including a well composed release of liability.
I personally believe that we as individuals should be responsible for ourselves, and that if we happen to be herping in an area where others are herping fantastic times, learning and camaraderie can occur benefiting all in the experience.
my .02
Riley
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
You are correct.. Financial responsibility also falls upon the board members, and those leading any any event, or those that may give advice at a outing..I know I think too much, and mind you I am not an attorney, but actively sponsoring and organizing an outing does place potential responsibilities upon the organization. In that aspect it may be time for the organization to adopt protocols, guidelines and establish parameters and legal protection up to and including a well composed release of liability.
Fundad
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I wouldn't hesitate to sign a liability waiver for both the organization and any land owners or other people incurring risk of liability. I think anybody that would have a problem with it probably shouldn't be that involved in field herping.
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
As a member of both Az. and Ca. chapters I thought I would through in my two cents. I think anything that could possibly stop a lawsuit or deter one from any member being sued for organizing a survey or official event is worth having...It may not be 100%, but it's better than nothing.
- Brian Hubbs
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Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I agree...waivers are a good idea.
- justin caaz
- Posts: 32
- Joined: December 17th, 2010, 4:49 pm
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I agree. In this sue happy day and age we live in waivers should be the norm anyway.
- Biker Dave
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Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Hubbs - But you never go on any NAFHA outings!
- Biker Dave
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Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Should they be mandatory/required for participation or strongly suggested for participation?
- Kent VanSooy
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- Location: Oceanside
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I think they should be mandatory, there's just way too much exposure for the event organizer without them. One of the things we talked about in CA was that if someone wanted to attend a NAFHA event, before they'd get the meeting time and place, they would need to send in a copy of their waiver, no exceptions.
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I never heard of a suggested waiver. What does that mean?
- Biker Dave
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Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Strongly suggest someone sign a waiver but not force them too.
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
No one would ever sign an optional waiver. Why would they??
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
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- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I meant they are a good idea for those who go on the outings. My time constraints don't allow me to herp in groups anywhere, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have waivers for those who do. It's a simple thing.
- justin caaz
- Posts: 32
- Joined: December 17th, 2010, 4:49 pm
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
I agree. If said person wants to herp with a NAFHA group, during a NAFHA sponsored/organized outing ,waivers should be a must. I guess you really can't force someone to sign, but why would we want to risk NAFHA bearing any responsibility of bodily injury or death during a "sanctioned" event. Just protects the organization I believe imho. I also strongly believe that most if not all would sign the waiver. We all understand that we herp at our own risk, waivers just state that in writing.
- Biker Dave
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 7:56 pm
- Location: Wittmann,AZ
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
The way the organization is formed right now, NAFHA does not exist from a legal standpoint. The waiver would have to say something like ".... NAFHA, its Board members, chapter officers, and assigns shall not be held liable ..." blah blah blah.
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Looks like the AZ member s agree, waivers are good.
Fundad
Fundad
- ThamnElegans24
- Posts: 406
- Joined: November 23rd, 2010, 6:44 pm
- Location: Mesa, Arizona
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
Why not just put a disclaimer in the invite to the event? Something along the lines of "attend at your own risk".
Re: Must Read - Liability Waivers
ThamnElegans24 wrote:Why not just put a disclaimer in the invite to the event? Something along the lines of "attend at your own risk".
Members often bring friends and family. They are the ones safety protocols and waivers are for. More so than the nafha members...