2 Chinese snake IDs

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Kevin Messenger
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2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

Hey everyone, one of the reserve officers here at Wuyishan NNR in Fujian Province asked me to ID a bunch of snakes on his cell phone. I was able to do them all except for these two.

I have my thoughts/ intuitions, but was hoping for 2nd, 3rd, and nth opinions.

These are cell phone shots, and the best and only ones the guy took. I did my best to mess with the contrast to bring out the snake's color and pattern, and to slightly sharpen the pic as it's blurry.


Here is the first animal, from a lower elevation spot (500m):
Image

cropped, and attempted to clean up:
Image

The head is visible in the bottom central-right (if that's a thing).

Here's the 2nd animal. Looks like a combination of two or three species that popped into my mind. This animal was at the top of Huanggang Mtn in Wuyishan, so about 2,000m elevation.

Image

Opinions and thoughts anyone??

thanks a bunch
WW**
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by WW** »

No idea about the first one. The second one.... hmmmm.... if I had to put one name to it, I'd say a juvenile Pseudoxenodon macrops, but I sure wouldn't bet the mortgage on it...
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MaartenSFS
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by MaartenSFS »

Disregarding elevation, could the first be Xenochrophis?
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

No, definitely doesn't look it to me. The body style looks too slender - too "non-natricine" to me.

To me, Pseudoxenodon and ratsnakes ("Elaphe") come to mind.

The second animal is a juvenile Pseudoxenodon macrops by the way - found another photograph online of a juvenile that looks identical
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RCampbell
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by RCampbell »

The stripes on the posterior bug me, but my gut reaction to pic one is Rhabdophis....
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

I could maybe see that in the head, but at Wuyishan the only Rhabdophis is R. tigrinus. The next closest species would be R. subminiatus to the south.

But either way, thanks for the input. I'm hoping to visit the location where this animal was and do a lot of searching. Would love to find another specimen and get some better shots (that is assuming this individual isn't simply an aberrant specimen of a more common species)
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Jimmy_77
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Jimmy_77 »

The first one is Elaphe bimaculata, I think.
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Micha
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Micha »

Hi Kevin,

I think the first one is Pseudoxenodon macrops too. You can still vaguely see the same patern as on the juvenile. Although I have to say that the lines on the tail threw me off for a while, they do seem to have that sometimes. I never saw them this long before, though.

Kind regards,
Micha
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Jeff
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Jeff »

The first snake appears to have smooth scales in about 13-15 rows in the thoracic region, which excludes my initial thoughts of perhaps a natricine or rat snake. That's all I can offer on that one.

I agree with Wolfgang et seq. about the second one being a Pseudoxenodon.

Jeff
aodaisho
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by aodaisho »

Hello everyone,

I am quite confident for believing the first one is also P.macrops...You do have also a lot of variations in this species ' patterns...Some are even bluish (anerythrism???).
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

Thanks a bunch everyone. I'm inclined to think Pseudoxenodon. I'd just love to find such a strange looking individual. The species does tend to lean toward a high amount of variation. In Shennongjia, I routinely found 3 different color phases, but never aberrant patterns.

I still hope to herp the area it was found in, and hopefully turn up more individuals (hoping that the region itself has a higher portion of aberrant individuals)
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

aodaisho wrote:Hello everyone
Thanks for the input. We have very few FHF-ers from China on here. The only ones I can think of are Maarten and Wang Kai. Wang Kai is now living in the US, but he's from Yunnan originally. Maarten's originally from Holland, but has been living in Guilin, Guangxi for a number of years now.

Please post more China stuff if you get the chance, I love it.
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Jimmy_77
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Jimmy_77 »

First one must be E bimaculata (or maybe E dione, they are easily mixed up).

Dorsal pattern and stripe is almost exact like this specimen (link), just a bit more dull:

http://www.google.se/imgres?biw=1920&bi ... =163&ty=96
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

Here are my issues with E. bimaculata:
Image

(not to mention I'm outside of the range of bimaculata - not saying that is the end all of an argument as ranges are extended frequently, I'm just saying that being outside the range makes that even less likely, especially when coupled with the above issues)
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Jeff
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Jeff »

Upon further review, of the first snake, I'm letting the name speak for itself -- Pseudoxenodon stejnegeri striaticaudatus

Jeff
aodaisho
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by aodaisho »

Upon further review, of the first snake, I'm letting the name speak for itself -- Pseudoxenodon stejnegeri striaticaudatus

Jeff
Well done :) ...the name probably says it all...

and...

Tropidonatus dorsalis = (P.s.striaticaudatus) described by Gunther ( type locality was in Zhejiang which is the province just North of Wuyishan)
and P.striacaudatus described by Pope (type locality was in Fujian)
Thanks for the input. We have very few FHF-ers from China on here. The only ones I can think of are Maarten and Wang Kai. Wang Kai is now living in the US, but he's from Yunnan originally. Maarten's originally from Holland, but has been living in Guilin, Guangxi for a number of years now.

Please post more China stuff if you get the chance, I love it.
aodaisho wrote:Hello everyone
Thanks for the input. We have very few FHF-ers from China on here. The only ones I can think of are Maarten and Wang Kai. Wang Kai is now living in the US, but he's from Yunnan originally. Maarten's originally from Holland, but has been living in Guilin, Guangxi for a number of years now.

Please post more China stuff if you get the chance, I love it.
I will try to please you but do not expect any art work...and we are not that rich in species on my rocky island albeit we do have some burmese...
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Kevin Messenger
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Re: 2 Chinese snake IDs

Post by Kevin Messenger »

that's why I so LOVE descriptive scientific names (I dislike the over use of naming animals after people, or simply just putting an -ensis in the name, very few Chinese species, described by Chinese herpetologists are descriptive, they are usually -ensis or named after someone).

I had thought one of the other Pseudoxenodon (non-macrops) had a striped tail, but wasn't sure of which one.

Thanks. I will obviously feel better when I catch one for myself, but for the time being, I feel pretty good with the tentative name.

Aodaisho - it took me a second to realize your locality. You're on THAT island. Very cool. I saw a presentation last year in Chengdu of some radiotelemetry work on the burmese there on the island. One animal was a good 14 ft (~4 m). Very cool to know they are still holding on somewhere
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