I found these three salamanders in North-Central Pennsylvania this weekend. All were found under rocks in very damp areas. I'm thinking that at least one of them may be a wehrle's salamander, but I've never seen one before, and pictures and descriptions I've found on the internet seem to be somewhat variable and a little bit conflicting at times. I'll let you guys judge.
Salamander 1- Couldn't get great pictures because my grandfather had just found a yearling rattlesnake that I wanted to get pictures of before he crawled away.
Salamander 2-
Salamander 3- Found under a piece of flagstone that served as a step up to the porch of our cabin.
Thanks for looking!
salamander I.D. Help
Moderator: Scott Waters
- The Jake-Man
- Posts: 224
- Joined: June 25th, 2012, 4:08 pm
- Location: Lebanon Pennsylvania
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
I never thought I would say this, but they sure look like Wehrle's Salamanders to me too.
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
Characteristics of Wehrles are:
1. Extensive webbing on hind feed
2. White throat
3. 17 costal grooves (sometimes 16 or 18)
4. White flecking restricted to sides of the body
I will leave evaluation of these characters up to you. You have good photographs of the hind feet, but since I have never seen a Wehrles I cannot comment on how "extensive" the webbing of yours are.
Anyone got hind feet of a slimy they can post for comparison?
1. Extensive webbing on hind feed
2. White throat
3. 17 costal grooves (sometimes 16 or 18)
4. White flecking restricted to sides of the body
I will leave evaluation of these characters up to you. You have good photographs of the hind feet, but since I have never seen a Wehrles I cannot comment on how "extensive" the webbing of yours are.
Anyone got hind feet of a slimy they can post for comparison?
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: September 21st, 2010, 12:27 pm
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
From what I can see in the pics the absence of spots on the back and webbing on the feet point to Wehrle's!
- The Jake-Man
- Posts: 224
- Joined: June 25th, 2012, 4:08 pm
- Location: Lebanon Pennsylvania
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
Every other slimy I've seen seemed to have a lot heavier marking on the sides and dorsal surface. In case it helps, 2 and 3 were found in Potter county, and 1 was found in Cameron county.
- Jared Cain
- Posts: 221
- Joined: September 18th, 2012, 7:39 pm
- Location: FL/WV
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
Definitely look like Wehrle's to me, too. Here are the best two photos I got for comparison.
Wehrle's
891832_10200933164200152_1435339334_o by Cain304, on Flickr
Slimy
240339_4499541295423_87506519_o by Cain304, on Flickr
Are they not on range maps for the area you found them in?
Wehrle's
891832_10200933164200152_1435339334_o by Cain304, on Flickr
Slimy
240339_4499541295423_87506519_o by Cain304, on Flickr
Are they not on range maps for the area you found them in?
- kyle loucks
- Posts: 3147
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 1:40 am
- Location: Pennsylvania- Bucks Co. near Phila.
- The Jake-Man
- Posts: 224
- Joined: June 25th, 2012, 4:08 pm
- Location: Lebanon Pennsylvania
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
They are on the range maps I've seen. The only reason I doubted my opinion of their ID was that most of the pictures I've seen online seem to show more white marks on the sides, especially compared to number 3. Also, I had never seen one until this weekend, and I can tell you I've flipped a heck of a lot of rocks in that region and never come across one until now, although that may be because I never went out in the rain to flip. I also noticed that there were a total of 0 records in the database of this species from Pennsylvania. That kind of made me doubt the ID, considering that I didn't target them, much less find them more or less accidentally in 2 different counties over 3 days.
- kyle loucks
- Posts: 3147
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 1:40 am
- Location: Pennsylvania- Bucks Co. near Phila.
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
I look occassionally up in that area, my place is on the edge of range but I just find slimies. The one I pictured was just the across the border in NY. No markings what so ever.
well done.
well done.
- Jared Cain
- Posts: 221
- Joined: September 18th, 2012, 7:39 pm
- Location: FL/WV
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
The Jake-Man wrote:They are on the range maps I've seen. The only reason I doubted my opinion of their ID was that most of the pictures I've seen online seem to show more white marks on the sides, especially compared to number 3. Also, I had never seen one until this weekend, and I can tell you I've flipped a heck of a lot of rocks in that region and never come across one until now, although that may be because I never went out in the rain to flip. I also noticed that there were a total of 0 records in the database of this species from Pennsylvania. That kind of made me doubt the ID, considering that I didn't target them, much less find them more or less accidentally in 2 different counties over 3 days.
This year is the first year I have ever found any unless I did as a kid. I did most of my adulthood herping in MD until this year and have yet to be called back over there for work. I had never seen one in WV when I would come back here and visit but come spring time I was finding them in LOTS of places I had herped before. Of course the conditions were probably not the best when I was out just visiting.
I have found them with almost no spotting like in your pics and some that, at first glance, looked like Slimy sals because of so much spotting and some small flecks on top.
Looks like you hit the jackpot with those!
On a side note. I saw a bunch of baby Slimys over the weekend
Re: Salamander I.D. Help
Dont know if this helps, but here's a definite northern slimy salamander from PA. You can see the feet and grooves pretty well here.
And here's PA herps' account for wehrle's:
http://www.paherps.com/herps/salamander ... salamander
- incuhead2000
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- Joined: November 16th, 2010, 11:04 am
- Location: Germantown, Maryland
- Contact:
Re: salamander I.D. Help
Cool find, interesting traits on the hind foot webbing, and I learned something today, I love this forum!