Anyone know this guy?

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mwentz
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by mwentz » July 8th, 2013, 1:51 am

I couldn't get the first link to work, but I know the classified ad you are talking about. I saw it last night about 10 minutes after it went up. I emailed him immediately about the legal concerns and told him to contact me if he had questions. Over 24 hours later, no reply. I am torn on weather to contact fish and game. He clearly States it is wild caught and the guy breeds snake, so I find it difficult to believe that he has no idea of the regulations.

On my own selfish note: I also said that I would gladly take the snake within the rule of law (no money exchanged and I will even pick it up) because the locality he posted is only 2 miles from the specific locality I have been looking for. I found one nearly exactly the same last year, but let it go after getting a few pictures because I was working. I think the nearly zero percent confluant types are most beautiful. It is what got me back into herping.

Edit: the reason I am torn is that it was pointed out in a tread on the CA forum threads about craigslist, that it might be better if we as a group policed ourselves instead of giving the hobby a black eye.

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herpseeker1978
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by herpseeker1978 » July 8th, 2013, 4:32 am

this site blocks links to kingsnake dot com. Click on the link and then replace the %22not%20allowed%22 in the address bar with kingsnake and it will bring it up.

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Martti Niskanen
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by Martti Niskanen » July 8th, 2013, 6:49 am

What would the penalties be like if caught?

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Jason Hull
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by Jason Hull » July 8th, 2013, 7:09 am

I also saw this yesterday and the first thing that came to my mind is law enforcement fishing for idiots.

BlackPearl
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by BlackPearl » July 8th, 2013, 7:53 am

The kingsnake link is him clearly stating he's selling a wild-caught zonata.
He's located in Tracy, CA and also has some pics of cobras etc on his website.

No idea who he is or what sort of permits he has. He may be perfectly legal for all I know. That's why I was wondering if anyone here knows him.

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Jason Hull
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by Jason Hull » July 8th, 2013, 8:43 am

Is there any kind of permit available for a CA resident allowing them to sell wild caught zonata? That would be news to me.

BlackPearl
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by BlackPearl » July 8th, 2013, 8:58 am

That would also be news to me. I can't think of any scenario by which he'd be able to legally sell a wild caught z. He could potentially have a permit to keep the hots he has on his site though.

mwentz
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by mwentz » July 8th, 2013, 9:11 am

No permit for sales whatsoever, wild caught or captive bred (excluding agalma). You cannot even buy captive bred from out of state. (I'm not sure of buying a single Cb while in another state, and trasnsporting it back and having it count towards your take limit of 1, but that is probably illegal also) .

I contacted fish and game late last year about the legality of purchasing captive bred from out of state and knowing that I would never be able to sell them again (a sort of repatriation) under the noncommercial breeders permit. Because there was commerce involved even repatriation was illegal. The out of state person would need a California noncommercial breeders permit, and would have to gift the zonata. Besides a few out of state guys who have posted on the herpeticulture forum here, I don't see that happening very much.

Also, wouldn't selling wc zonata be a good way to have your hot permits pulled?

Zach_Lim
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by Zach_Lim » July 8th, 2013, 11:49 am

I was under the impression that zonata (sans any protected subspecies) can be purchased legally if out of state (outside of Washington, CA, and Oregon).

There has been numerous zonata for sale through various out of state breeders, such as Ryan Hoyer of Ophidarium, and the now "blacklist" Jerry Kruse.

mwentz
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by mwentz » July 8th, 2013, 12:07 pm

Anything purchased out of state is legal, (sans poached snakes, illegally collected etc...) you just can't have any commerce or anything above your legal take in California (Oregon and Washington are not known to me). Also out of state purchases MAY be illegal to be brought back to California per my communications with Fish and Game. Because out of state purchases have commerce attached to them (they are in effect tainted). And anything bred outside of state and outside of the non commercial permit doesn't have a paper trail, and would likely be considered wild caught, it would count against your 1 wild caught limit (I dont know the legality the ownership in this part). And even Jerry Kruse, wasn't going to ship to California (as far as his website used to say, he has dissapeared and I am not in the know enough to know why).

Zach_Lim
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Re: Anyone know this guy?

Post by Zach_Lim » July 8th, 2013, 12:12 pm

mwentz wrote:Anything purchased out of state is legal, (sans poached snakes, illegally collected etc...) you just can't have any commerce or anything above your legal take in California (Oregon and Washington are not known to me). Also out of state purchases MAY be illegal to be brought back to California per my communications with Fish and Game. Because out of state purchases have commerce attached to them (they are in effect tainted). And anything bred outside of state and outside of the non commercial permit doesn't have a paper trail, and would likely be considered wild caught, it would count against your 1 wild caught limit (I dont know the legality the ownership in this part). And even Jerry Kruse, wasn't going to ship to California (as far as his website used to say, he has dissapeared and I am not in the know enough to know why).
You are spot on with that information!

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