New Mexico Question
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- Biker Dave
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 7:56 pm
- Location: Wittmann,AZ
New Mexico Question
Do I need a hunting/fishing license to herp in New Mexico?
- Bryan Hamilton
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Re: New Mexico Question
Yes. There is a reasonably priced short term small game license for non-residents.
Re: New Mexico Question
Is this something that should be purchased if you are planning on attending the national meeting or is this something that you only need if you plan to collect while herping on your own in NM (i.e. not during the national meeting)? And yes I am interested in knowing the letter of the law.Bryan Hamilton wrote:Yes. There is a reasonably priced short term small game license for non-residents.
-Thomas Wilder
Re: New Mexico Question
Last time I got one (2012) the nonresident, non-game licenses were only sold over-the-counter ($65, no internet sales). This table has vendors alphabetized by "city". Some pretty small towns have vendors, e.g. Winston, Reserve, etc:
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/documen ... rlist.html
If you want to "hunt" BLM or USFS lands then at the same time and place you need to buy a habitat stamp. It's just $5. Personally, I like this feature of hunting in NM. Public lands nationwide get very, very little money from Congress to manage wildlife. In most states they also get little or nothing from the state, or from hunters.
Anyway...here's a list of licenses sold by NMGF. http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... mation.pdf
Honestly, I can't remember why it was the nongame versus some other license I started buying in order to herp there. Somewhere, some time, I learned it was the correct thing to do. The letter of the law is mighty hard to locate! It's hard to find someone other than ourselves who are interested in exactly what it is. Since Bryan actually worked there back in the day, maybe he's right (small game) and I'm wrong (non-game) about which is the right license.
The vendors I've interacted with have no idea which one is right. If it's my first time buying one in a particular town, it's often the first nongame license the vendor ever recalls selling - they often have to dig around some just to find the right license book (you might even call ahead, to give them time to locate the thing, or verify they do not even have one & you need to shop elsewhere). The Deming Wal-Mart is pretty reliable, I might have them trained up by now. Ha ha. While there you can buy a tarp, some fix-a-flat, beef jerky, ammo, cammo, whatever else makes you feel happy, comfy, and secure field herping.
I've never run into a game warden in NM. They might - might - know which is right. The various NMGF web pages don't tell you much. Like so many state wildlife agencies, "it's all hook and bullet" in NM, at least as far as what they portray on the internet - who they seem to want to communicate with. I suspect just trying to do the right thing would earn you a "free pass" with any warden you might be so lucky as to encounter.
cheers,
Jimi
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/documen ... rlist.html
If you want to "hunt" BLM or USFS lands then at the same time and place you need to buy a habitat stamp. It's just $5. Personally, I like this feature of hunting in NM. Public lands nationwide get very, very little money from Congress to manage wildlife. In most states they also get little or nothing from the state, or from hunters.
Anyway...here's a list of licenses sold by NMGF. http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... mation.pdf
Honestly, I can't remember why it was the nongame versus some other license I started buying in order to herp there. Somewhere, some time, I learned it was the correct thing to do. The letter of the law is mighty hard to locate! It's hard to find someone other than ourselves who are interested in exactly what it is. Since Bryan actually worked there back in the day, maybe he's right (small game) and I'm wrong (non-game) about which is the right license.
The vendors I've interacted with have no idea which one is right. If it's my first time buying one in a particular town, it's often the first nongame license the vendor ever recalls selling - they often have to dig around some just to find the right license book (you might even call ahead, to give them time to locate the thing, or verify they do not even have one & you need to shop elsewhere). The Deming Wal-Mart is pretty reliable, I might have them trained up by now. Ha ha. While there you can buy a tarp, some fix-a-flat, beef jerky, ammo, cammo, whatever else makes you feel happy, comfy, and secure field herping.
I've never run into a game warden in NM. They might - might - know which is right. The various NMGF web pages don't tell you much. Like so many state wildlife agencies, "it's all hook and bullet" in NM, at least as far as what they portray on the internet - who they seem to want to communicate with. I suspect just trying to do the right thing would earn you a "free pass" with any warden you might be so lucky as to encounter.
cheers,
Jimi
-
- Posts: 116
- Joined: July 9th, 2010, 5:39 pm
Re: New Mexico Question
My experience parallels Jimi's. I first learned of the need for a Non-game hunting license by calling NMG&F several years ago. Since then, each year on my first trip to NM (whether I plan to collect or not) I bring my previous year's license with me to show the clerk, usually at the Deming Wal-Mart, since, as Jimi said, they usually have no clue which license is required or, & in some cases, how to look it up. For non-residents, the codes needed (at least on my last few licenses) are 045 for Non-game hunting ($65 for annual), 091 for Habitat Improvement ($5.00) & 029 for Habitat Management ($4.00).
Have never purchased the short-term so not sure of the cost; probably pretty reasonable.
Have never purchased the short-term so not sure of the cost; probably pretty reasonable.
- Biker Dave
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 7:56 pm
- Location: Wittmann,AZ
Re: New Mexico Question
Sounds like I may need to make some phone calls then!
- herpseeker1978
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:05 am
- Location: Albuquerque
Re: New Mexico Question
Here is what I found here: http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... me_RIB.pdf
Resident needs nothing, non-resident needs non-game license OR hunting license.
Nongame license:
non - $65 annual (April 1, 2014 - March 31, 2015)
Hunting license:
temporary (4-day) - $33
as mentioned before habitat stamp is required to look on certain lands. prices are correct above
Josh
Resident needs nothing, non-resident needs non-game license OR hunting license.
Nongame license:
non - $65 annual (April 1, 2014 - March 31, 2015)
Hunting license:
temporary (4-day) - $33
as mentioned before habitat stamp is required to look on certain lands. prices are correct above
Josh
- Biker Dave
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 7:56 pm
- Location: Wittmann,AZ
Re: New Mexico Question
There is no mention of herps in the rules... is there a more detailed version of the "guide" linked in the post above?
Re: New Mexico Question
Looks like there's also now a $4 fee "HMAV". Habitat mgt & access validation or some such. That seems new to me, I have zero recollection of that one.
Hey guys, I located (from Josh's link - go to bottom left corner, center link: 19 NMAC 35.10) where I got the idea I needed a nongame license, not something else.
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/conserv ... ibs%20.pdf
See "Take" section A and "Permit" section C.
I know some of us argue "but dammit I'm not collecting, I'm just taking pictures". That argument might work for you. I just buy the license, I find it simpler and also feel it's the right thing - for me - to do. If you look at "Methods of legal take" you'll see a lot of the ways we catch herps in a catch & release fashion. A law enforcement guy isn't going to be able to tell your intent (release or keep). He's just going to see you on the road shoulder, with a snake hook, and he'll probably go with what he sees. $65 is nothing to keep a wildlife violation off your record. You know the states talk about violators to each other, right? We have a "Wildlife Violation Compact". You want to stay off that database.
Dave - that phone call might still be a good idea. Share what you find?
Cheers,
Jimi
Hey guys, I located (from Josh's link - go to bottom left corner, center link: 19 NMAC 35.10) where I got the idea I needed a nongame license, not something else.
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/conserv ... ibs%20.pdf
See "Take" section A and "Permit" section C.
I know some of us argue "but dammit I'm not collecting, I'm just taking pictures". That argument might work for you. I just buy the license, I find it simpler and also feel it's the right thing - for me - to do. If you look at "Methods of legal take" you'll see a lot of the ways we catch herps in a catch & release fashion. A law enforcement guy isn't going to be able to tell your intent (release or keep). He's just going to see you on the road shoulder, with a snake hook, and he'll probably go with what he sees. $65 is nothing to keep a wildlife violation off your record. You know the states talk about violators to each other, right? We have a "Wildlife Violation Compact". You want to stay off that database.
Dave - that phone call might still be a good idea. Share what you find?
Cheers,
Jimi
- herpseeker1978
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:05 am
- Location: Albuquerque
Re: New Mexico Question
The way I read it it seems that you only need to buy it if collecting for COMMERCIAL purposes. Maybe I read it wrong?
Josh
Josh
Re: New Mexico Question
My friend and I encountered NM G&F on a trip to visit a den in late October a few years ago. The 3 officers in two seperate trucks, approached us after seeing my truck, they were looking for a 'suspect' deer poaching vehicle. They had presumably already seen and run my plates to identify I was a resident.
Two of the officers knew exactly what a hook was and its use, the third I believe was a rookie. The asked what we were doing, despite the hook, and I replied that we were checking to see if any thing was still out. I dont believe they knew we were near a small den. The officer asked if we had collected anything, and I said 'No, just looking' . After some small talk and a quick digression with the rookie about hooks and rattlesnakes they looked us up and down, I guess my friend and I were scruffy looking, then said "Ok be careful".
They left but asked us to keep an eye out for a vehicle which I guess looked similar to mine.
The good thing in my opinion was they did ask if collecting was occuring.
-N-
Two of the officers knew exactly what a hook was and its use, the third I believe was a rookie. The asked what we were doing, despite the hook, and I replied that we were checking to see if any thing was still out. I dont believe they knew we were near a small den. The officer asked if we had collected anything, and I said 'No, just looking' . After some small talk and a quick digression with the rookie about hooks and rattlesnakes they looked us up and down, I guess my friend and I were scruffy looking, then said "Ok be careful".
They left but asked us to keep an eye out for a vehicle which I guess looked similar to mine.
The good thing in my opinion was they did ask if collecting was occuring.
-N-
- Calfirecap
- Posts: 638
- Joined: June 16th, 2010, 8:09 am
- Location: Santa Cruz Co. California
- Contact:
Re: New Mexico Question
That's the way I read it too. Has anyone contacted NM G&F about this?herpseeker1978 wrote:The way I read it it seems that you only need to buy it if collecting for COMMERCIAL purposes. Maybe I read it wrong?
Josh
Lawrence
Re: New Mexico Question
I have not contacted NMGF. In my reading of the second half of the first page ("definitions" and "take") of the link I posted, it just looks to me like if:
1) you are actually seen to - or if (say because of your gear, or your behavior) you look like you intend to - "capture" or "seize" herps (for whatever future purpose, including e.g., immediately relocating them off the roadway), and
2) you're a non-resident,
Then - you'd be better off having one of these permits.
For me the path of least resistance is to pay a few bucks at the time of my choosing & convenience (e.g., during my Deming gas & drinks stop), and later - when I'm on-site at my actual herping destination - be free just get on with my business.
My path of least resistance does not, in this NM case, involve spending advance time probably getting transferred on the phone around a series of office staff (for whom this topic is probably very obscure) who very possibly aren't exactly sure of the "right" answer. Which is probably open to some field-agent interpretation or discretion anyway.
Nor does it involve even risking spending would-be herping time trying to explain myself or extricate myself from a close encounter with a field agent. Anybody who's found their self in that situation - standing on the shoulder discussing different possible interpretations of the same vague bit of text, wasting valuable field time - will understand (not to say agree with) what I am saying.
My path of least resistance instead involves whipping out my license in the event of a close encounter, having a pleasant chat (duration being up to both of us, not just him), and then getting back to my business - herping. My business is not getting acquainted with some guy, who happens to have a pistol and badge, on the side of the road in the middle of the night. I have met some cool guys that way. I have also met some real assholes. I no longer wish to chance it. With age, I really value my time and my blood pressure.
For me, a herp trip almost always - sooner or later - includes activities that are encompassed by the definition of take as commonly - including here, by NMGF - defined. Even though I practically never intend to - or do - harvest anything. Since a field agent could think - could be justified in thinking - I was "taking", I buy the license. I do not want a game violation, I do not want to waste my time and money fighting someone else's effort to pin me with a game violation. This is just how I think. Surely this route is not for everyone. But if it also makes sense to you - go for it.
Cheers,
Jimi
1) you are actually seen to - or if (say because of your gear, or your behavior) you look like you intend to - "capture" or "seize" herps (for whatever future purpose, including e.g., immediately relocating them off the roadway), and
2) you're a non-resident,
Then - you'd be better off having one of these permits.
For me the path of least resistance is to pay a few bucks at the time of my choosing & convenience (e.g., during my Deming gas & drinks stop), and later - when I'm on-site at my actual herping destination - be free just get on with my business.
My path of least resistance does not, in this NM case, involve spending advance time probably getting transferred on the phone around a series of office staff (for whom this topic is probably very obscure) who very possibly aren't exactly sure of the "right" answer. Which is probably open to some field-agent interpretation or discretion anyway.
Nor does it involve even risking spending would-be herping time trying to explain myself or extricate myself from a close encounter with a field agent. Anybody who's found their self in that situation - standing on the shoulder discussing different possible interpretations of the same vague bit of text, wasting valuable field time - will understand (not to say agree with) what I am saying.
My path of least resistance instead involves whipping out my license in the event of a close encounter, having a pleasant chat (duration being up to both of us, not just him), and then getting back to my business - herping. My business is not getting acquainted with some guy, who happens to have a pistol and badge, on the side of the road in the middle of the night. I have met some cool guys that way. I have also met some real assholes. I no longer wish to chance it. With age, I really value my time and my blood pressure.
For me, a herp trip almost always - sooner or later - includes activities that are encompassed by the definition of take as commonly - including here, by NMGF - defined. Even though I practically never intend to - or do - harvest anything. Since a field agent could think - could be justified in thinking - I was "taking", I buy the license. I do not want a game violation, I do not want to waste my time and money fighting someone else's effort to pin me with a game violation. This is just how I think. Surely this route is not for everyone. But if it also makes sense to you - go for it.
Cheers,
Jimi