Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

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todd battey
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Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » March 10th, 2014, 10:35 pm

Our tentative Tejon Ranch trips for 2014 are the following dates:

- March 29 - cancelled
- April 12
- April 19
- May 3 - cancelled

These dates are all Saturdays and some may be dropped based in conditions, interest level, etc. With our very dry year and the warm temperatures we have had so far, the later dates may not be so productive. If you are able to commit to a certain date, please notify me with your contact information (name, email, phone number) and I will try to piece together the best weekends for all.

I will add a few pictures of some previous herping highlights. For TR alumni, feel free to do the same. Even if the herping season is limited by the drought conditions, this area usually has something interesting to enjoy.

Todd

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Re: Tejon Ranch 2014

Post by Fundad » March 11th, 2014, 5:49 am

Thank You Todd.. :thumb:

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » March 11th, 2014, 10:18 am

Here is one of the highlights from last year's Tejon Ranch outings. We finally found and got pictures of a zonata at the Ranch with much assistance from Brian Hinds. This may be the same individual that Brian and TRC representative Mike White found in 2012, but it slipped down into a rock pile before they could photograph it. We found it in 2013 during a small group outing under a piece of carpet placed the previous year.

Image
Tejon Ranch Zonata, Shot 1 by Todd Battey, on Flickr

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by gopher » March 11th, 2014, 7:58 pm

I wont be able to make the first trip but I should be able to make the following three dates!

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by jonathan » March 11th, 2014, 9:42 pm

Where are all the other highlights? Integrade ringnecks, bluntnose leopard lizard, the first rubber boa, elevation record Tehachapi Slender, etc.

This is a minor highlight compared to those, but during one of the surveys we passed some rain puddles in the prairie and Todd shouted out, "Maybe there's spadefoot tads in the ponds!" I jumped out of the car, and sure enough - I believe these were the first spadefoot toads ever recorded in Tejon Ranch.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Richard F. Hoyer » March 11th, 2014, 9:53 pm

Todd:
Carpet you say! Ta Dah!!

Richard F. Hoyer

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » March 12th, 2014, 4:44 pm

Richard, whoever thought of using carpet as AC for rock-dwelling species was a genius. Remember this one? How did the total length of this adult boa measure up to the lengths of the dwarf southern populations of "Northern Rubber Boa" (C. b. bottae)?

Here is the first Rubber Boa found in the western Tehachapi Mountains at Tejon Ranch. I believe the events leading up to the initial discovery included Brian pointing to a rock near Matt Leatherman and saying to check that rock. Matt flipped it and BINGO.

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TR Rubber Boa by Todd Battey, on Flickr

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TR Rubber Boa Head by Todd Battey, on Flickr

More good stuff from that day, including this high elevation (>6000') CA King, now a full-fledged species. This snake was found by 15-year old Brett Gaborko, guest of Brian.
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High Elevation CA King by Todd Battey, on Flickr

Adult Ring-necked Snake (Diadophis punctatus) flipped by Brian at TR in Kern County, California. Ring-necked Snakes from this area are considered intergrades between the Coral-bellied Ring-necked Snake (Diadophis punctatus pulchellus) of the Sierra Nevada and the subspecies that occur to the west, the Monterey Ring-necked Snake (Diadophis punctatus vandenburghi) and the San Bernardino Ring-necked Snake (Diadophis punctatus modestus).
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Intergrade Ring-necked Snake by Todd Battey, on Flickr

One of a bunch of snakes that Brian flipped, mostly following behind the herd, flipping rocks the others thought they had checked. This was the nicest looking gopher. Snakes from this area are intergrade between the Pacific Gopher Snake (Pituophis catenifer catenifer) and the Great Basin Gopher Snake (Pituophis catenifer deserticola). Image

This is probably the most commonly encountered amphibian on TR trips. After growing up with the Stebbins guide, I'm a huge fan of Ensatina. This Yellow-blotched Ensatina eschscholtzii croceater) is actually from the Mt Pinos area not far from the Ranch.
Image
Yellow-blotched Ensatina by Todd Battey, on Flickr

That's it for now. Needless to say, there have been some great opportunities to document the herpetofauna of this huge property that encompasses the junction between many geomorphic provinces, including the Coast Ranges, Transverse Ranges, Mojave Desert, Sierra Nevada, and the Great Valley. I'm looking forward to more exploration at the Ranch.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Richard F. Hoyer » March 12th, 2014, 8:47 pm

Todd:
Three adult female boas from the dwarf phenotype populations of the N. Rubber Boa have all measured 22 1/4 inches. The specimen found on Tejon Ranch property you show in your photo was one of those female. There was another large female of that length from Mt. Pinos and a third specimen of the same length from Breckenridge Mt. that was maintained by Robert Hansen (Herp. Review editor) and grew to that length while in captivity.

The largest female from my study of the S. Rubber Boa population in the San Bernardino Mts. I believe was 21 5/8". Gary Keasler once told me that he thought the SRB females reached about 22 inches. It is highly unlikely that during the study, I came across the largest ever SRB female.

As for advising others to use carpet on rock / rock outcrops, Brad Alexander put out some carpet at one of his sites in the Greenhorn Mts. south of Alta Sierra. About 2 - 3 years later, I was searching for boas at his site, I flipped a Mt. Kingsnake under one of the pieces of carpet.

Richard F. Hoyer

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Brian Hubbs » March 15th, 2014, 11:03 am

The Cal King is not a full-fledged species. Some say it is, others do not buy into that nonsense (the majority of herpers, I might add). Please don't pollute the forum with that garbage Todd... :lol:

BTW, I placed carpet on rock slides and around rocks in the Sierra's as early as the late 1980s and found zonata under them in May. I have Richard to thank for that idea, although I had been hunting carpet for cal kings for several years before using it for zonata. Any AC works for fossorial snakes, anywhere...one time I laid out a load of cardboard for cal kings. It worked too...

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by klawnskale » March 16th, 2014, 7:16 am

Unfortunately I will be working Saturdays this Spring. Would have loved to herp that area.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Jeff Lemm » March 17th, 2014, 11:44 am

I'm a no-go for the 29th, but the others look good (Matty too)

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » March 18th, 2014, 2:20 pm

Jeff, dates noted.

Klawnsnake, sorry the Saturday dates don't work for you. I signed up for the Saturday dates thinking they would be better for most.

Brian, I generally rely on the Society for the Study of Amphibians and Reptiles (SSAR) for herp taxonomy and nomenclature, not "The World According to Brian Hubbs." :shock: In SSAR's "Scientific and Standard English and French Names of Amphibians and Reptiles of North America North of Mexico, with Comments Regarding Confidence in Our Understanding, Seventh Edition" (Crother, 2012), the California Kingsnake is now recognized as a species: Lampropeltis californiae. That herpers would argue this (or just about anything the moderators of this forum will allow) comes as no surprise to me. Back on topic...so Brian, when are you going to join us on one of the Tejon Ranch trips? :)

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by hellihooks » March 18th, 2014, 4:30 pm

April 12 works best for me....Sunday 30th I'll have 50 hunters in the field, so I'll be planting 100's of birds like all day... and the 19th conflicts with the RM Panamint survey I want to attend.
I can't think as far ahead as May... :roll: :lol: :lol: jim

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by mattg » March 19th, 2014, 9:50 am

April 12th works for me , ill be out of town on march 29th, April 19th is a maybe , and may could work but its hard to say this far out

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » March 20th, 2014, 12:06 pm

Due primarily to lack of interest, the March 29 trip has been cancelled.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by jonathan » March 21st, 2014, 11:02 pm

Man, the slender salamanders never get any love.

Here is the Tehachapi Slender Salamander that Brian Hinds found in Tejon Ranch at 5908 feet - the highest elevation ever recorded for the species. It was only 39 degrees when it was flipped.

http://www.naherp.com/viewrecord.php?r_id=77703


Image

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Fundad » March 31st, 2014, 10:46 am

Please put me down for the 12th.... I may have GF and her son with me, I ll let you know.

Let it Rain before then...

Fundad

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » April 2nd, 2014, 8:52 am

Brian, I've got you down for the April 12 trip, possibly plus 2.

Regarding weather, the high country got snow from the last storm and it's snowing right now even in Lebec. Finally, some moisture!

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Jeff Lemm » April 3rd, 2014, 4:08 pm

HI Todd,
Matty and I won't be able to make the 12th - hopefully the next one. Good luck!

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by JD Quattro » April 8th, 2014, 6:07 pm

I'm interested in April 19 and possibly May 3.

Thanks,

John

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Re: Tejon Ranch rubber boa

Post by regalringneck » April 9th, 2014, 2:36 am

... hhmm, what a very nice find indeed : } Richard wasn't there a discussion about a Charina reported from around Lake Piru that was at the time doubted? By the map, it looks like continuous habitat between these 2 points & maybe all of 15 mi? Amazing that range extentions are still occurring ... & w/in 100 mi of LA! The whole topic of S. Charina distribution would make a nice topic for a paper ( hint hint).
The zonie is another excellent find, but if it was W of the 5, that makes it the ungliest multifaciata in the world!
This year maybe someone will find the uncommon s. cali racer.

Good luck w/ your surveys / rxr

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Calfirecap » April 9th, 2014, 7:23 am

For the survey on the 12th, what is the meeting time and location?

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by fangmaster » April 10th, 2014, 1:18 am

I would like to go this Saturday, let me know if there is space available, thanks Jeff

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » April 10th, 2014, 3:18 pm

Fangmaster, we have space for this Saturday. I've added you to our list.

Regalringneck, the zonata was east of Hwy 5.

JD Quattro, I added you to the lists for the later 2 dates.

Jeff Lemm, got it.

Calfirecap and others attending the trip on April 12 (this Sat), we will meet at the 300th Street West gate at 8 AM. This is located at the west end of Antelope Valley just east of Quail Lake and southeast from Gorman.
Directions from Hwy 5: exit onto Hwy 138 near Quail Lake. Head east on 138 for ~8 miles to 300th Street. Turn left onto 300th Street and continue ~4 miles, across the aqueduct, and onto a dirt road that will lead to the gate.
Directions from Hwy 14: exit onto Hwy 138 west, then continue ~28 miles to 300th Street West. Turn right onto 300th Street and continue ~4 miles, across the aqueduct, and onto a dirt road that will lead to the gate.
Please bring all the food and water you will need for the day and be prepared to move into another vehicle if necessary, as we need to minimize the number of vehicles. If you have a high clearance vehicle, preferably with 4x4, we may want to use your vehicle to carpool other attendees to the sites we will visit. Please try to arrive with a mostly full gas tank. The closest affordable gas is at the Flying J truck stop just off Hwy 5 to the north at the Frazier Park exit.

If you need more info for the April 12 trip, please call or PM me.

Regards.

Todd

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by mattg » April 10th, 2014, 8:57 pm

I will be cruising up there in my 4x4 4 runner

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Fundad » April 11th, 2014, 5:59 am

Just a friendly Reminder *Everyone* that attends is required to give permission to the Tejon Ranch to have access to *All* of your HERP records that fall on the Tejon Ranch and surrounding areas (Within 5 miles or so).

There are no exceptions to this, and anyone not granting this permission will not be allowed to attend.

As always with our surveys NO COLLECTING is ever allowed.

Thank You for your understanding and cooperation.
Fundad

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by fangmaster » April 12th, 2014, 8:32 pm

Sorry I missed it, hope it was a success, was really exhausted from my sierra trip, slept right thru the alarm!

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by gopher » April 13th, 2014, 10:46 am

anyone interested in the 19th or the 3rd?
hope the last trip went well :)

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by RobertH » April 13th, 2014, 8:39 pm

Greg, I am not sure about April 19 and May 3, Todd will have to chime in on that.

But here is a quick report on the high elevation survey on April 12.

In attendance were:

Todd Battey
Brian Hinds
Jim Bass
Matt Gruen
Lawrence Erickson (who drove all the way down from Boulder City in SC County!)
Nicholas and myself

We were also accompanied by two TR docents in training, who joined us to learn more about herps at TR. Todd took a group picture, which I am sure he'll post later.

As usual, we encountered some prong horn antelope at the lower elevations, on our way up to Blue Ridge.

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At the mid-elevation we laid out some boards for a study by Tejon Ranch on the impact of cattle and wild pigs on herp life. The only promising-looking outcropping produced the first snake of the day, a NorPac found by Matt Gruen:

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A nearby spring turned out to hold some Baja CA tree frogs (sorry, no pics, maybe someone else will post some).

We then continued up to the 6000 foot level, where we checked out various outcrops. The temperature on top was a rather chilly 57 degrees, and it was pretty windy.

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The next snake of the day, found by Lawrence, was this extremely friendly and, for the photographers, cooperative gopher snake, an intergrade between Pacific, Great Basin and maybe San Diego. No one was quite sure.

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At the same outcropping Todd then flipped this beautiful ringneck snake, measuring a proud 18.5":

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A little farther up on the ridge, Todd also managed this striped racer:

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At our final destination, the outcropping where Fundad found the first rubber boa on TR in 2012, more gopher snakes and striped racers were found, plus a number of Gilbert's Skinks and Skilton's Skinks.

Late in the afternoon came the finds of the day: two zonata, the first, a juvie, found by Matt, and the second, a YoY found by Lawrence. The snakes, probably intergrades between Coastal and Sierra, were found within minutes and just feet of each other:

Matt's juvie

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Lawrence's YoY:

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While up on Blue Ridge, we were also treated to several sightings of golden eagles and, as it later turned out when Nicholas reviewed his pictures, at least one CA condor:

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The last bird is the condor.

On the way back down, we made a few short stops at the lower elevations to check some boards. All they produced were a couple of desert night lizards:

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Overall, it was a challenging day. Were it not for the two zonata, the survey would have been less than productive. Conditions were extremely dry (not unexpected, of course), and we found much less both in terms of the number of species and also the total number of herps than on the last high-elevation survey in 2012 (not counting the "closed" 2013 survey). Conspicuously absent, for example, were yellow-blotched ensatina, a local salamander especially Lawrence had hoped to find.

No matter how productive, the survey was another fantastic opportunity to connect with, and in some cases, meet other forum members, and to herp together in one of the most awesome places Southern California has to offer. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Todd for organizing yet another survey for us, which btw was the first time we were not accompanied by any TR staff.

Hoping for another TR survey soon :beer:

Robert (and Nicholas, who as always gets credit for all wildlife photography)

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by hellihooks » April 14th, 2014, 11:37 am

I don't have much to add... a gopher and some big adult Gilberti, which are downloaded but not uploaded to photobucket yet (no time today) I also walked a nice adult SAL, which I handed off to others to collect data/voucher shots for, as I was carrying boards to be laid. While a pretty long tough day... a good one, as usual, herping with friends new and old (though...I was probably the oldest, this trip... :crazyeyes: ) I think the gopher in question is pure pacific...and you guys just talked yourselves into seeing an 'intergrade' I've SEEN a 3-way cross, which (strangely enough) look Sonoran... :shock: :lol: :lol:
And Lawrence lives in Boulder Creek, not city... not that it matters, but that along with (even) one other grammar 'flaw' tells me I'm not the only one this trip took a lot out of...(I'm still sore and moving/thinking slow... :? :lol: :lol: :lol: )
As always... thx Todd for keeping this awesome herping opportunity going strong... :thumb: jim

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Owen » April 14th, 2014, 3:19 pm

You folks did pretty OK. Thanks for the update.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » April 15th, 2014, 9:59 pm

For all who attended the trip last Saturday, good to see you again / meet you.

RobertO, great post and shots of people. You have a great way of describing a trip.

Nicolas, great shots and documentation of the CA Condor. I will pass that on to the TR Conservancy staff. I suspect the birding trip did not see a condor.

Jim, regarding the gophers, I agree at TR they are catenifer for the most part with deserticola influence down toward the Antelope Valley. We've never found a gopher on the floor of AV, but I expect they will be intergrades like we have seen further east. You're welcome for organizing the grueling day. So...when are we having the herpathon followed by the BBQ at the Hellihook's new digs?

I'll add some pictures of the last trip later.

Regarding the next trip to the Ranch, this Saturday is on. The May 3 trip will likely be cancelled due to low levels of sign-up. So Saturday will be the last open NAFHA trip to TR. We will work the San Joaquin Valley side up into Tejon Canyon. Details will be provided later to the attendees. If anyone is interested and has not yet committed, please email me contact information for all in your group, including full names, phone numbers, emails, and let me know if you there will be any minors.

Cheers,

Todd

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by jonathan » April 15th, 2014, 11:21 pm

Was this the first striped racer found in a survey? I can't believe that they haven't, but when I saw the picture I realized that I'd never seen one in TR, and I don't remember them being highlighted in any of the reports. Then again, they're so common perhaps it just didn't get reported or slipped my mind when I read it.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Calfirecap » April 16th, 2014, 5:42 am

I must say this was a great trip and thanks to Todd for making this happen and thanks to those who came along for making this a great trip.
As I needed to be somewhat functional, I traveled up the day before and stayed with Jim Bass at his new resort. I got there kind of late so we made a quick tour of his back yard and promptly came across this young helleri. A lifer for me.

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Not long after that we flipped this striking San Diego Alligator Lizard, another lifer for me.
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My first snake at Tejon was this very well mannered Gophersnake that even stayed posed even after everyone was done with him.
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Next came Todd's Ringneck snake which was a lifer of sorts for me. Todd was going back through and flipping an area that some of us had already passed through.
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San Joaquin Fence Lizard
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Here's a couple of the Zonata intergrade that was found just a few feet away from Matt's. It was small, but because of the short seasons at the higher elevations Brian estimated to be a 3 year old.
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One of many productive photo sessions:
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Nicolas and Todd with Matt's King:
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Desert night lizard
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One more thing I must say is that you Southern California guys sure have to work hard for your herps. In case you didn't know there is suppose to be at least one salamander under every rock ;)

Lawrence

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by regalringneck » April 16th, 2014, 5:58 am

.... looks like a good time was had by all, and what a beautiful zonie ...tho the stellar photography made even that coastal pit look good! Looking across & down @ that young golden were my favs despite the ringer & gorgeous lateralis shot. I'm still bett'n you folks could find a real racer (coluber) on that ranch if you'd really get out there n hunt it :p ... tizapity its so damn far from phx ...

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Zach_Lim » April 16th, 2014, 8:12 am

Looks like an amazing trip.

The zonata are stellar.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Fundad » April 16th, 2014, 9:55 am

Great Photos..

Had a good time working the survey with everyone.

I never saw the Condor when did that happen?

To Mathew and Lawrence (1st Sierra Z) Congrats on their first's. Great Job... :thumb:

To Todd once again thank you for putting this all together for us.

To Everyone else, that worked hard at the survey and placements thank you for your efforts, they do not go unnoticed.

Outstanding Survey and Effort :beer:
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by hellihooks » April 16th, 2014, 2:26 pm

jonathan wrote:Was this the first striped racer found in a survey? I can't believe that they haven't, but when I saw the picture I realized that I'd never seen one in TR, and I don't remember them being highlighted in any of the reports. Then again, they're so common perhaps it just didn't get reported or slipped my mind when I read it.
I'm sure Fundad has seen/flipped Striped Racers at Tejon the day the Rubber boa was flipped, and I ended up on my butt, on a steep grassy hillside, trying to snag a Racer that zipped tween my legs... :crazyeyes: So... they've been seen before....but vouchered? not sure. :) jim

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » April 16th, 2014, 3:07 pm

Jonathan,

The first few years we had a dry spell with the lateralis, probably partly because of the sites we were visiting. Since then we have seen a bunch of them on Blue Ridge and on the Antelope Valley side of that divide.

All,

The final open NAFHA trip will be this Saturday, April 19. The May 3 trip will likely be cancelled due to low levels of sign-up. On the trip this Sat, we'll work the San Joaquin Valley side up into Tejon Canyon. Details will be provided later on this sticky. If anyone is interested and has not yet committed, please email me contact information for all in your group, including full names, phone numbers, emails, and let me know if you there will be any minors.

Cheers,

Todd

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Nature Nate » April 22nd, 2014, 10:02 am

I wish I could have gone. Was it canceled after all?

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by todd battey » April 27th, 2014, 3:00 pm

Nate, we did do the April 19 trip to Tejon Ranch, though it was only attended by me and 2 others. We found the following snakes: a night snake, a gopher snake, and two Sierra Gartersnakes. We also found the usual lizards: western fence, side-blotched, Gilbert's skink, and southern alligator.

Note to all, the May 3 trip has been cancelled due to dwindling participation and the conflict with the northern CA Soquel survey, which I hope to attend. We will probably have a chance for NAFHA members to get back to the Ranch on May 17 and/or May 24 to help with a Blunt-nosed Leopard Lizard project. If you might want to participate in the leopard lizard trips, please PM me. Any updates will be posted to this sticky.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Brian Hubbs » April 28th, 2014, 9:04 pm

Why is the zonata considered an intergrade? Those should be Sierra zonata. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just wonder if anyone knows...

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by mattg » April 28th, 2014, 9:44 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:Why is the zonata considered an intergrade? Those should be Sierra zonata. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just wonder if anyone knows...
the one that lawrence found had red on the snout

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Brian Hubbs » April 28th, 2014, 10:17 pm

LOL! So do some from Fresno county...that's not an indicator... :roll: Oh well, you guys call them whatever you want...I don't really care. :thumb: According to the new SSAR list that Todd worships so much they are just L. zonata with no subspecies...I think I'll just stick to turtles for now until the stupid DNA garbage settles down into the dump it belongs in.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Fundad » April 29th, 2014, 6:33 am

I "suggested" the one Lawrence found looked more 'multifasciata' like than the others found on the range, and it might be an intergrade. But I also "suggested" it be labeled as 'multicincta'

Of Course all of this debatable, if you want, after all lines of morphological differences of the same species are often not clearly defined, as in this case..



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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Calfirecap » April 29th, 2014, 7:26 am

The zonata has been edited in the data base to call it a multicincta as suggested.
I appreciate the input.

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by hellihooks » April 29th, 2014, 11:00 am

Todd... was that our 1st Night Snake at Tejon? what Ele? I've seen nightsnakes up to 6400 ft, in two places. jim

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Re: Tejon Ranch in 2014 and Highlights from Previous Years

Post by Brian Hubbs » April 29th, 2014, 2:28 pm

Let me clarify my thoughts here. I don't dispute that this may be an intergrade zone, just like the other mountain tops across the line in Ventura county, but I think the Sierra influence is the greatest. That's all. I don't use the red specks on the head as an indicator. I have seen a few zonata with red on the head in places far removed from the coastal subspecies influence, so I don't think it matters. I pay more attention to the width of the white rings. I just wondered what everyone was basing their ideas on. :thumb:

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