Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

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BillMcGighan
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Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

Maybe some of you wizards can help clarify some 3 separate IDs for me.


ID#1

These bad pics of some very small tadpoles might not be sufficient for vouchers, but we’ll give it a try.
These creatures that were wogging their polies were found in a retention pond in Marion county.
I lean towards the more probable Southern Toad or the less probable, Spadefoot.
Conditions were good for anything since there had been serious rains.



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ID#2

Bulls, Pigs, or Rivers?

All three were possible with these Liberty County, FL, jewels.
We know Rivers have red eyes as tadpoles, but what about metamorphs?
They were on the edge of a borrow pit by the dozens:


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Note: Upside down frog is perfectly healthy; just put in the herp upside down frog sleep spell that works so well on gators and Horned-lizards.





ID#3
Dark Snake climbing tree.
Found north of Bristol, FL. Black Rat? Gray Rat? Racer? Ramphotyphlops?


Image
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Noah M
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Noah M »

#1 I have no clue.

I think #2 is a river frog. Here is a young/small river frog, and it still had a red coloration in the eye.

Image

Here is the belly pattern of the same frog too.

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#3 I must be blind, I don't see a snake in the picture. It looks like a vine or branch on the tree.
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dery
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by dery »

As for the snake id, If I'm looking in the right tree(middle pine), It's a P.o. spiloides
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RCampbell
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by RCampbell »

Is the "snake climbing a tree" a snake at all??
To be honest I think it is a vine...look at the top of the picture...
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Josh Holbrook
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Josh Holbrook »

RCampbell wrote:Is the "snake climbing a tree" a snake at all??
To be honest I think it is a vine...look at the top of the picture...

Yeah, I agree -

#1 is Southern Toad;

#2 is River Frog - the webbing goes all the way down the toe (get rid of bullfrog) and white spotting on the jaw confirms it as hecksheri.

#3 Doesn't look like a snake to me. Was this sighting made after a couple beers? :beer:
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Noah M
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Noah M »

#3 I must be blind, I don't see a snake in the picture. It looks like a vine or branch on the tree.
This seems to be the consensus.

Also, we all seem to agree #2 is a River Frog.
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks all. I do appreciate the responses.
You confirmed what I thought for #1 and #2.


With #3 I was trying to play straight man to setup some jokes like "it's a Pantherophis obsoletus smilaxus" or "It's an Oxybelis!"
Josh came closest with the beers.

Here's the vine a lttle closer,

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and closer yet:

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But it did remind me of this "white oak on a white oak" from a 2006 trip to the same general area.


Image
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JakeScott
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by JakeScott »

Awww man, everybody is party pooping. For what it's worth, Bill, I would have given a smart-ass response to your #3. :)

-Jake
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Noah M
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Noah M »

How about Pantherophis carpinus caroliniana?

I was a bit suspicious that you didn't catch it yourself, but I didn't want to suggest that your eyes had lost their sharpness in your golden years.
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

but I didn't want to suggest that your eyes had lost their sharpness in your golden years.
I think they have because sometimes I can't always find my walker when I'm herping. :oops:





"Give us Matlock"
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Noah M
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Noah M »

You mean that pole wasn't a snake hook but actually your cane? I feel terrible now.
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Josh Holbrook
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Josh Holbrook »

BillMcGighan wrote:
but I didn't want to suggest that your eyes had lost their sharpness in your golden years.
I think they have because sometimes I can't always find my walker when I'm herping. :oops:
Herper's ego at being on the right side of the debate firmly trumps herper's humor :beer:

That said, could it be the elusive Oldman's Ratsnake, [img]Pantherophis%20geriatricus[/img]?
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

At one point, to see that plant better, I approached it, and, as I did, a rabbit ran right in front of me.

Losing short term memory in my old age, I forgot my plant mission, and spent the next five minutes chasing the rabbit.

Again, I approached the tree with the climbing tendrils and saw a lizard higher up, so I used the creeper as a ladder.
It lost its grip on the tree and we both came tumbling down, but I caught the lizard.


It was at that moment that I came to realize:
to hare is human;
to herp, devine.

:roll:

(and I had such grape expectations!)
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BDSkinner
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BDSkinner »

Sounds like me everyday.

Sees log in distance, steps on rock, flip rock, oh a beetle! Stand up, walk, oh yeah, the log! Walks toward it, sees mushroom, etc.... An hour later gets to log.

About those tadpoles, they look pretty young but I would go with southern toad for them. The color is dark and they seem more narrow in shape. Spadefoots I have seen are all brown and have wider heads that taper, and grow to a larger size. Maybe head back and check them out again?


-Brad
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

Thanks for confirming the ID, Brad. The wogs were tiny; probably less than a cm.


On another note:
Hey, guy, we went for a thoroughly enjoyable drive just north of you up to Ashe county yesterday; beautiful area; seemed more affluent than over here.

Weren’t looking hard and saw 3 road kills: 2 racers (vouchered) and 1 garter (unvouchered).
1 AOR Black rat (unvouchered), saved from certain death in traffic.
2 "orestes" (vouchered)in a seep.
1 "Nerodia" in a tree at a stream (vouchered).



Adult D. orestes
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Little D. orestes
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Water in tree:
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A little closer:

Image
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Noah M
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Noah M »

That one there, the last one, is what we call your big-headed brown snake. Not sure what this "nero-dia" is your talkin' about.

--Cliff Clavin
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

Not sure what this "nero-dia" is your talkin' about.
Well, as a matter of fact, I was just about to tell Normie here that the roman emperor, Nero, was herper and found water snakes only in daytime, thus they were named "Nero dia" back then. (I was only a boy, but I remember.)



Of course, uh, it's a little known fact that his slave and aid, Nathan Augustus, would put water snakes in unsuspecting places to surprise him, and these events he referred to as “Nate tricks”.
:roll: :roll:
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BDSkinner
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BDSkinner »

hahah I can't wait to tell people some herp jokes.

Oh yeah, Ashe is fun to drive around in. I really should get my car running... Racers too! I had no idea they would be up here. Hopefully I'll have my head out of the creeks enough to actually find some snakes this year.

That tiny dusky is awesome! The patterns they get are endless and always enjoyable. I've been out the past few days, hopefully I'll get to posting some tonight. Great stuff!

-Brad
Carl D. May
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by Carl D. May »

Josh Holbrook wrote:
RCampbell wrote:Is the "snake climbing a tree" a snake at all??
To be honest I think it is a vine...look at the top of the picture...

Yeah, I agree -

#1 is Southern Toad;

#2 is River Frog - the webbing goes all the way down the toe (get rid of bullfrog) and white spotting on the jaw confirms it as hecksheri.

#3 Doesn't look like a snake to me. Was this sighting made after a couple beers? :beer:
Ditto. But as I am late for this one, I guess you've all already arrived at this conclusion.
Still, that 'vine snake' had me going as a spiloides for a moment.
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BillMcGighan
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Re: Help with three separate IDs for the data base.

Post by BillMcGighan »

I guess you've all already arrived at this conclusion.
Thanks, Carl.

Did you ever go up there. The high water was incredible. At one flooded forest site, you could here no less than 7 or 8 frogs calling:
Bulls
Pigs
Barkers
Cope's
Bronzes
Ornates
Green Trees
Crickets
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