what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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Saybs444
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what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

I'm dying to hear about people's encounters with them. I have tried and tried catching them for so long and only recently did I succeed. It was a goal that I was very excited to fulfill, and I hope that I have many more encounters. I don't do any activities ON water so it makes it sort of hard when they can so easily retreat to the water and then are out of reach. I'm never equipped to jump in the water, spur of the moment and even if I were, it would slow me down. Any tips on how to make apprehending these guys easier? Also, I've had countless ALMOST catches with them. Even when I had hold and somehow they slipped through my fingers (literally blows my mind every time bcuz somehow or other this happens with no other snake) anyway my reason for including that is because I never have sensed, even REMOTELY, that they were biters (by body language and gut instinct in that specific encounter) and also the adult that I caught recently never once attempted to bite me. I hear so much about how they can almost always be counted on to bite. This simply has not been my experience. Although I suppose it is rather limited regarding ACTUAL handling. How have your water snake encounters gone and have they been "bitey"?? I'm eagerly curious about this and must know! Thanks for reading and I genuinely appreciate any input anybody wants to share with me! I'm so happy to have joined this forum, as these topics have long been something that I have nobody to share with lol
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ZantiMissKnit
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

I think one of the tricks to catching them is to see them before they know you see them (or catch them sleeping). I don't think they bite as often as people say (certainly not as much as racers do), but their musk packs a real wallop; to me it smells like unwashed armpits mixed with freshly stepped-in dog crap. It also doesn't wash off easily, so you get to enjoy the stench all day.

We've been able to get decent in situ shots of them. As long as you don't get too close to them, they won't flee.

ImageDSC_0049 by ZantiMissKnit, on Flickr

If you have a decent zoom on your camera, you can get pictures of them when they don't even realize you are there:

ImageDSCN9888 by ZantiMissKnit, on Flickr

We had been watching a male and female mating, and a third male joined the party:

ImageDSC_0101 by ZantiMissKnit, on Flickr

I think this one thought it was camouflaged well enough that we couldn't see it; it was in shallow water surrounded by tadpoles:

ImageDSCN8369 by ZantiMissKnit, on Flickr
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

Wow GREAT SHOTS Zanti! :) these pictures look EXACTLY like pictures I've ATTEMPTED to take, That I see with my own eyes, but am never able to get good footage of to share with people lol. I do absolutely need a better camera. I just love the NWS so much. Whenever they're slithering away I just get a different feel from them. I know it sounds silly but it is as though they're big scaredy cats. Their body language is always very meek. Upon the countless encounters where I've attempted to apprehend them but been unable, they don't even lift their heads up in curiosity. With my experience even the smaller and known for being more docile snakes do this. I enjoy our water snakes so much! I seriously love these pics thank you for sharing!!! :)
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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Also, the individual that I caught this past week did musk, but I didn't really find it too bad. Although I do agree with your description of the smell. Lol it just wasn't too strong at all. I do know that depends on a lot of factors so it may very well just have been the specific encounter and variables surrounding the event. I will post my video if you'd like to see it. I believed this guy to be a male. From tail shape and length.
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ZantiMissKnit
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

They ARE big scaredy cats! That's what most people don't realize; snakes are much more afraid of them than they are of snakes.
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

Gorgeous northern water snake MA: http: ... obb2tMjEco

Now while this specimen does seem to be on the bigger side I guess, observing the cloaca after musking, it seemed to me that it exhibited maleish attributes. More abrupt tapering and longer tail. I know this depends on the individual (again) but if this was a male then I feel he was all the more impressive :)
Jake Schneider
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Jake Schneider »

This is what every Northern Watersnake I catch initially does to me, although this is a banded watersnake in the photo. This was the only time I had someone else to get the photo. You can also see musk on my shorts from the snake.
ImageBanded Watersnake by JakeSchneider., on Flickr

The Watersnake's first tactic is almost always to bolt to some type of safe area like rocks or water, but I've noticed they will occasionally stand their ground if caught sort of like racers do. This was from 2 days ago by a river. The snake could've just gone down the hill into the river, but sat there striking instead. It also curled it's tail over its head and covered itself with musk.
ImageNorthern Watersnake by JakeSchneider., on Flickr
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

Please don't take this the wrong way (I find without inflection on the internet things are often misinterpreted) but is there any reason you are holding it by the tail like that?
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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In the second photo is that a young snake or also a diff species? There's not much of anything close by to compare for size reference. I know that they differ from individual to individual of course as all do, but, this one here has a very obviously pattern on the dorsals.
Jake Schneider
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Jake Schneider »

Saybs444 wrote:Please don't take this the wrong way (I find without inflection on the internet things are often misinterpreted) but is there any reason you are holding it by the tail like that?
It was just to get a picture before I released it. It wasn't meant to be cruel or harmful. I could never hurt a snake. I usually don't hold them by the tail like that though because it's mean.
Saybs444 wrote:In the second photo is that a young snake or also a diff species? There's not much of anything close by to compare for size reference. I know that they differ from individual to individual of course as all do, but, this one here has a very obviously pattern on the dorsals.
The second is a Northern Watersnake, and was an adult male. It was pretty bright for being so big. The ventral patterns were also a weird color. Instead of bright red, they were sort of greyish.
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

Wow that's really cool. I love seeing the variations in our native species! Thank you for sharing your photos/experiences! :)
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ZantiMissKnit
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

They can be really variable. We have one spot where they retain their red banding, even at a larger size:

Image

At a different spot we found this very oddly patterned juvenile:

Image

Image

Image
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Saybs444 »

Wow those are great pics! I've yet to ever see juvie nws in person. I hope to in my travels though. Just a matter of time I suppose. The adult pictured here looks a lot like the one I caught last week. Very brightly patterned. In some of the other videos where I am closer to the water, you can see the lateral Markings fading into the more matte looking, "solid" Brown. Though in some lighting you absolutely can still see the pattern on the dorsals.
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cbernz
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by cbernz »

My experience with water snakes is that they are ferocious biters. Their teeth are long and sharp, and their bites bleed a lot. And that musk is pretty terrible. I try to avoid catching them as much as possible. On land, one good trick is to drop an inverted pillowcase or bag on top of the snake and grip the snake through the bag to pull it inside. They are harder to catch in the water. It's best to find a place with open shoreline. Often, when you spook a watersnake, it will swim away from shore for a bit and then arc back to shore further away from you. If you can see where it stops, you might be able to sneak up on it and grab it out of the water. Just be prepared to have your skin shredded.

I think it's more fun to just watch them bask and hunt. Sometimes you'll get lucky and come across one dragging a big frog or catfish out of the water, usually at night.
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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cbernz wrote:My experience with water snakes is that they are ferocious biters. Their teeth are long and sharp, and their bites bleed a lot. And that musk is pretty terrible. I try to avoid catching them as much as possible. On land, one good trick is to drop an inverted pillowcase or bag on top of the snake and grip the snake through the bag to pull it inside. They are harder to catch in the water. It's best to find a place with open shoreline. Often, when you spook a watersnake, it will swim away from shore for a bit and then arc back to shore further away from you. If you can see where it stops, you might be able to sneak up on it and grab it out of the water. Just be prepared to have your skin shredded.

I think it's more fun to just watch them bask and hunt. Sometimes you'll get lucky and come across one dragging a big frog or catfish out of the water, usually at night.
I feel as though I just may be immune to snake musk lol. I'm never much bothered by it. I mean yeah it isn't pleasant, but idk I guess the goal I have in mind is more important to me than being unable to withstand the stench lol. I probably just don't focus on it enough. I actually do everything you mentioned in your post here aside from the pillow case. I may try that simply for a method of temporarily rendering them unable to see, but I personally wouldn't feel it necessary to use the pillow case beyond that but thank you for your input, you have given me an option I never thought of before! :) I'm aware I have a pretty high pain threshold, but the natives we have around here have yet to get me to the point that I thought it wasn't worth the effort and discomfort of apprehending them.
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Mike VanValen
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by Mike VanValen »

Pretty much what everyone else is saying : The are definitely quick to bite, quick to musk, and quick to flee into the water....but they are approachable with a little patience.

Image

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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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Wow great pictures Mike!! One of those guys looks like they just had a really large meal. Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing!
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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ZantiMissKnit wrote:They can be really variable. We have one spot where they retain their red banding, even at a larger size:

Image
Do u recall the story behind getting hold of this beauty? As in how you managed it? .... Did he/she bite? Gorgeous example of an NWS
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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cbernz wrote: Often, when you spook a watersnake, it will swim away from shore for a bit and then arc back to shore further away from you. If you can see where it stops, you might be able to sneak up on it and grab it out of the water. Just be prepared to have your skin shredded.

I have noticed that also. Once they're in the water it seems they almost always come right back to the shore again within seconds only this time JUST out of your reach lol I'd say that shows some intelligence. They have to know they're more than likely safe doing that our they wouldn't do it. Many snakes will flee until they're either far away, or absolutely hidden.
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ZantiMissKnit
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

Saybs444 wrote:

Do u recall the story behind getting hold of this beauty? As in how you managed it? .... Did he/she bite? Gorgeous example of an NWS
My husband Mike caught it in shallow water a couple of years ago. It was those high reds that made him want to get a closer look. I think it did give a quick nip, but calmed down.
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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ZantiMissKnit wrote:
Saybs444 wrote:

Do u recall the story behind getting hold of this beauty? As in how you managed it? .... Did he/she bite? Gorgeous example of an NWS
My husband Mike caught it in shallow water a couple of years ago. It was those high reds that made him want to get a closer look. I think it did give a quick nip, but calmed down.
Wow awesome. I sorta feel like a quick nip could almost be likened to no bite at all, as compared to some of the stories I hear about people calling them "aggressive". I"ve come to literally hate that word. So very interesting! I see that you are near my location. I wonder if that has anything to do with disposition at all regarding this species. Like I said, although I was only recently able to interact much with one, many of the times that I've tried to grab them and failed I still had them in my hands. It's just that they got away before I could actually get a secure grip. (I won't try to get a snake from the end of the tail, that really bothers me for some reason, so it is never that I'm just catching the tail end. It's ironic how much I love them, and how they're the ones always getting away). I'd say that that contact alone could potentially present an opportunity to get bit as well (though maybe less of one). I've just yet to get a bite. I wonder if it has to do with the way the snake is being apprehended as well. Some people have a way about them. I'd almost LIKE to think that it has something to do with our area though, although I'm not sure, realistically, if that comes into play much. lol Temperatures I know factor in but I'm not sure how big of a difference that would consistently make in New England. Very different from MA weather compared to say, CA. Lol
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by juicebox »

Goodmorning Tuff Girl,

I have hand caught many of these water snakes in Wisconsin. I have always had to be very fast to get em. In most cases I find them on shore laying in the sun and get within 3-4 ft away and then just with lightning speed grab em. I usually try to get em buy 3/4 of the body and keep em out aways from me until they calm down, once they do I will support them with my other hand so as not to get bitten as they so often do. Best story I remember was in Sheboygan Co. about 7pm in late June, the sun was almost at the horizon and I had just gotten down to the shore line with a girl to take her out and paddle her around the lake, something nice and romantic. However someone at that same unforgettable moment started screaming something about a large snake in the water and without any hesitation I ran straight into the water seeing the snake and swam after it through lily pads and all until I caught it by the tail and swimming backward to shore came out all covered in some sort of pond muck. The girl I was with wasn't to thrilled but after several attempts to strike the snake finally calmed down. I paddled her around the lake as I promised I would and later that evening we sat around a camp fire with a large group as I began to tell everyone about 15 people or so that we do not have water moccasins here in Wisconsin. Good times

-troy
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

Post by MCHerper »

My experience with them (abbreviated): roll...poop...bite....repeat :)

In all honesty, they were the first of two snake species (the other being a racer) that gave me my formative experiences with herping in general, and snakes in particular.
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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juicebox wrote:Goodmorning Tuff Girl,

I have hand caught many of these water snakes in Wisconsin. I have always had to be very fast to get em. In most cases I find them on shore laying in the sun and get within 3-4 ft away and then just with lightning speed grab em. I usually try to get em buy 3/4 of the body and keep em out aways from me until they calm down, once they do I will support them with my other hand so as not to get bitten as they so often do. Best story I remember was in Sheboygan Co. about 7pm in late June, the sun was almost at the horizon and I had just gotten down to the shore line with a girl to take her out and paddle her around the lake, something nice and romantic. However someone at that same unforgettable moment started screaming something about a large snake in the water and without any hesitation I ran straight into the water seeing the snake and swam after it through lily pads and all until I caught it by the tail and swimming backward to shore came out all covered in some sort of pond muck. The girl I was with wasn't to thrilled but after several attempts to strike the snake finally calmed down. I paddled her around the lake as I promised I would and later that evening we sat around a camp fire with a large group as I began to tell everyone about 15 people or so that we do not have water moccasins here in Wisconsin. Good times

-troy
Im glad you did! People need to be educated a bit more, even if not to any impressive degree, on the native serpents in their area. Mostly I say that for people who are afraid of them. I feel it truly would help a lot to know that their fears are irrational. however i realize most fears are not rational I suppose. lol
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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MCHerper wrote:My experience with them (abbreviated): roll...poop...bite....repeat :)

In all honesty, they were the first of two snake species (the other being a racer) that gave me my formative experiences with herping in general, and snakes in particular.
For sure MCHerper! I feel the same way! ... I love all of our Natives here in MA, but I do love the typically livelier and more challenging species. There's a beauty they possess that I cant quite put into words. i feel this way about all snakes, but experiencing these things hands on is something I'm so very grateful for!
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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Image
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Saybs444
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Re: what's everyone's experience with northern WATER SNAKES?

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Joe Mahoney wrote:Image
Thanks for sharing! Amazing pic!!
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