Chameleon exploration

[biancacao626]

for the last few months i have embarked myself in finding the population of chameleons in florida, if anyone knows about there secret location please message me. i love chameleons and want a male to breed with my female.

[TravisK]

There is a population at 26.3193715,-80.153576. They are non-native so collect away.

[Josh Holbrook]

Except for joke responses (like I'm assuming Travis's is since it's the lat/long for Underground Reptiles); you probably wont get m(any) responses for a few reasons:

1.) First and foremost, it's against the terms of service to give out specific locales.

2.) This is your first time posting and your first post is to ask people to give you spots. Most of us are very apt to help newcomers to the hobby, but we typically do so through general advice like "look at this time of year, in this habitat," rather than saying "Look at xx and they're there." Why? Because many of us put many hours of blood and sweat into finding species, so to give away spots to someone new, who we don't know, online, is sacrilege to all the effort we've put into it. Typically most of us will give spots (if they're ours to give) to people who have posted a bit and shown their maturity in the hobby, but that's only because we know there's mutual effort and respect for the hobby and the animals that've gone into it.

3.) Most of the chameleon populations are on or near private property, and many landowners have gotten very angry at the flood of illegal trespassers that inevitably come once a spot is advertised publicly - some even to the point of brandishing firearms against perceived threats. I myself (with a group of quite a few others) were shot at on a public road because of a angry landowner who'd previously had collectors trespassing on his property. Attempted murder is not something I enjoy as part of my herping trips, and most south Floridian herpers wont be quick tell chameleon spots to anyone but the most trusted friends.

I hope that helps, though it certainly wont in the way you mean it to... My suggestion would be to post some of your finds and let everyone get acquainted with you, find some other southern Florida people to join herping and enjoy it - you'll be amazed at how many herping spots (with good memories) you know in a year.


-Josh

[The Real Snake Man]

I agree with what Josh posted above, and I would like to add that you did not specify what species of chameleon you own, and thus would not be guaranteed finding a male that would be reproductively compatible with your female. Overall, on introductory posts, I would add a little more about yourself, what you're looking for, what experience you have, and what your herping ethics include. You still wouldn't get any locales, but at least some more experienced people here would be more willing to point you in a general right direction.

-Gene

[biancacao626]

I currently have two vieled chameleons and one oustalet's chameleon(female). i have been researching hand have trekked through the everglades to find them with noc luck. i have been at it for months with no sightings

[biancacao626]

And besides those coordinates are incorrect

[biancacao626]

And i agree with you Josh, but i have been obsessed with chameleons ever since i adopted my first chameleon Rango, who has been with me since 2011. i am simply trying to see something that i have never experienced in the wild and would like only one.

[TravisK]

And besides those coordinates are incorrect

I didn't say you wouldn't have to walk around a bit

[Noah M]

i have been researching hand have trekked through the everglades to find them

Bear in mind I've never seen one "in the wild" (can we call it this since they're introduced?) but my understanding is that they are not in the everglades.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

And besides those coordinates are incorrect

Woooossssssh....

[The Real Snake Man]

And besides those coordinates are incorrect

Woooossssssh....

Rrrrriiiight over the head.

[PrimitiveTim]

Isn't this information open to the public? If you google a little more... Eddmaps gives specific locations for all kinds of exotics. I wouldn't be surprised if this information is out dated as populations seem to disappear and pop up in other areas. Yeah... I don't think you're gonna find any in the everglades. lol

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... ation+maps

[BillMcGighan]

If Boy George's reptile bites 5 people in one day.


Does he needs a calmer chameleon?

[Kelly Mc]

If Boy George's reptile bites 5 people in one day.


Does he needs a calmer chameleon?

When I read that I actually said : Duuude..! Outloud.

[Christopher]

Isn't this information open to the public? If you google a little more... Eddmaps gives specific locations for all kinds of exotics. I wouldn't be surprised if this information is out dated as populations seem to disappear and pop up in other areas. Yeah... I don't think you're gonna find any in the everglades. lol

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... ation+maps

It surprises me how often people ask questions, I mean really take the time to write it out, when they couldve just as easily typed it out into google or do a little research and found their answer faster than asking a person.

[Mike VanValen]

if anyone knows about there secret location please message

Would you like fries with that?

Ah yes...gotta love the era of social media herping.

[gbin]

It surprises me how often people ask questions, I mean really take the time to write it out, when they couldve just as easily typed it out into google or do a little research and found their answer faster than asking a person.

Doesn't this suggest that they're really after more than just an answer, i.e. they're also seeking to make a connection to folks here? Granted it's not the best way to go about that, given how jealous so many herpers are about "their" spots...

Gerry

[Josh Holbrook]

It surprises me how often people ask questions, I mean really take the time to write it out, when they couldve just as easily typed it out into google or do a little research and found their answer faster than asking a person.

Doesn't this suggest that they're really after more than just an answer, i.e. they're also seeking to make a connection to folks here? Granted it's not the best way to go about that, given how jealous so many herpers are about "their" spots...

Gerry

Jealousy has nothing to do with it. Bullets do.

[gbin]

Point taken, Josh, but the possibility of gunfire (which I certainly didn't mean to make light of) isn't normally what motivates folks to stonewall/scold people who ask for herp locations here.

Gerry

[Josh Holbrook]

Point taken, Josh, but the possibility of gunfire (which I certainly didn't mean to make light of) isn't normally what motivates folks to stonewall/scold people who ask for herp locations here.

Gerry

You're right. I probably wouldn't tell him via the internet anyway, I prefer to get out herping with people then show them things if they don't seem like the type to sweep through and collect everything they see... But the attempted murder supersedes with chameleons.

[gbin]

It seems to me that getting to know other herpers and, if new to the hobby, learning from them used to be a major purpose of regional herp societies. I don't really know the current state of such societies, though, and haven't personally belonged to one in a very long time. Has the internet more or less eliminated them from consideration? Or is there one in South FL that the OP should look into?

Gerry

[Kelly Mc]

Does the world really need more cb calyptratus?

[Josh Holbrook]

There's a SFL Herp Society. I'm this year's VP.

[gbin]

Well that seems the best course of action for biancacao626 to take, then. S/he can join the SFL Herp Society, get to know some of the folks there (and vice versa), and then maybe get some help learning what field herping is like in the area.

Problem solved!

Gerry

[Josh Holbrook]

Well that seems the best course of action for biancacao626 to take, then. S/he can join the SFL Herp Society, get to know some of the folks there (and vice versa), and then maybe get some help learning what field herping is like in the area.

Problem solved!

Gerry

Sounds good to me. We do field trips 4 or 5 times a year. Too bad he missed out June talk on Invasive Chameleons.

[Noah M]

I can remember not long ago when I first came to this forum. I don't think I was as forward about asking for secret spots, but this group of people is the only group of people I've ever met where you must trade information to get information. I think most new folks are just naive to the methods of data sharing. The only group of people I can think of that comes close to this type of data sharing might be anglers, but I've never been part of that community. You don't just blab your best fishin' hole to anybody, right?

Perhaps given the exotic standing of chameleons in Florida s/he though people would be more willing to share locations. It isn't like s/he was asking for a rattlesnake hibernaculum.

But also given the brevity of the message and lack of proper capitalization, maybe they were of a younger age class, and just naive. Either way, they seem to have an answer.

[chris_mcmartin]

Well that seems the best course of action for biancacao626 to take, then. S/he can join the SFL Herp Society, get to know some of the folks there (and vice versa), and then maybe get some help learning what field herping is like in the area.

I address this topic (essentially, the continued importance of physical herp clubs in an age of "internet clubs") in the forthcoming Reptiles USA 2015 Annual--should be out soon. I suspect the publisher may eventually post it on their website as well if you don't want to pay the $8.95 for the print version.

Either way, they seem to have an answer.

I hope their main takeaway isn't, "Wow, these folks were no help--I can find the answer I want from Facebook or other less-judgmental forums." I think most of us understand there are valid reasons for being less-than-forthcoming with information given to newcomers--especially those who haven't built a rapport with existing members, but FHF also has the potential to tactfully explain WHY some folks don't want to blindly share favorite sites--if we don't scare off newcomers first.

I don't know if such considerations of "herping etiquette" necessarily exist in other venues/sources (especially those forums catering to younger and/or less-experienced crowds), so I'd rather shoulder that burden (shepherding newcomers through generally-accepted "best practices" in starting their adventure) here.

[luv_the_smellof_musk]

Gerry,

It's not fair to blame herpers for this issue. The anti-pet industry has spent decades repeating (without any associated evidence) that collectors cause the decline of herp populations. I've even met well educated persons who should know better that have repeated these statements to me. I believe the sleeper effect is responsible. After something is stated enough times, one tends to forget the original source. These statements are very popular with the general public because it allows us to become disillusioned into thinking our current lifestyles can sustain herps *if only* we could stop those collectors. Personally, I believe if the collection of all herps in the US stopped tomorrow, it wouldn't make one bit of difference, but try convincing the folks on this forum of that..... you'll never win.

[chris_mcmartin]

These statements are very popular with the general public because it allows us to become disillusioned into thinking our current lifestyles can sustain herps *if only* we could stop those collectors. Personally, I believe if the collection of all herps in the US stopped tomorrow, it wouldn't make one bit of difference, but try convincing the folks on this forum of that..... you'll never win.

Out of sight, out of mind...being able to observe and care for herps on a routine basis may help foster more helpful attitudes toward them. If a person has never seen a real live kingsnake, maybe they won't care less if the house they plan to build will plow several into the earth. But if they had one as a kid (or an adult), or they got to hang out at their neighbor's house and THEY had one, maybe they'll think twice before supporting habitat-destructive projects--for other species as well.

*I didn't say those projects would stop, but maybe there wouldn't be such a cavalier attitude and perhaps more creative mitigating measures could be taken.