zoos in the US that have best representation of China herps?

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Kevin Messenger
Posts: 536
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:00 pm
Location: Nanjing, China
Contact:

zoos in the US that have best representation of China herps?

Post by Kevin Messenger »

Does anyone know of any? A zoo which either has an impressive assortment of snake species, or turtles, or lizards, or frogs, or any combination there of?

edit: I changed the title from Asian to China, as that is my main area of interest. And I've been getting lots of emails and messages from individuals with tons of Asian stuff, but sometimes their China collection may be 1/10th of the Asian overall species.
User avatar
klawnskale
Posts: 1211
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:09 pm

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by klawnskale »

The San Diego Zoo. They have a Mangshan Viper! Beautiful animal!
User avatar
Kevin Messenger
Posts: 536
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:00 pm
Location: Nanjing, China
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Kevin Messenger »

yeah, I had the pleasure of photographing some mangs at the Riverbanks zoo in SC the other week:
ImageMangshan pit-viper (Protobothrops mangshanensis) by Kevin Messenger, on Flickr

ImageMangshan pit-viper (Protobothrops mangshanensis) by Kevin Messenger, on Flickr

Riverbanks also had these guys (photographed at an earlier time):
ImageFea's Viper (Azemiops feae) by Kevin Messenger, on Flickr

ImageFea's Viper (Azemiops feae) by Kevin Messenger, on Flickr

Do you know what else San Diego has??
User avatar
chrish
Posts: 3295
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:14 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by chrish »

Zhaoermia seem to be more common in US zoos now. I actually saw one for sale in a deli cup at an expo last year.
They are cool looking though.

Image

Azemiops is certainly a cool zoo critter.

I don't know which zoos have the best collection of asian species though. That's a good question. San Antonio has quite a few, but I doubt it is in the top 10.
I emailed a buddy who might know. We'll see what he says.
User avatar
Curtis Hart
Posts: 595
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:07 pm
Location: Hillsdale County, Michigan

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Curtis Hart »

I think the Columbus Zoo has a pretty good variety of turtles. That Chattanooga Aquarium also had and endangered turtle display when I was there several years ago.
User avatar
Paul Freed
Posts: 130
Joined: November 10th, 2013, 12:14 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest (Oregon) U.S.

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Paul Freed »

Kevin,
Many of the Texas Zoos (Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio) have fantastic herpetological collections and likely have a good cross-sampling of Asian species. I retired from the Houston Zoo ten years ago and we had a rather significant collection from that region. Are there any specific species you are looking for? You might be able to contact the various zoos and ask the staff for their specific herp list. It's probably even possible to access that list on line these days, although I'm not exactly sure of that. Good luck!
-Paul
User avatar
chrish
Posts: 3295
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:14 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by chrish »

Paul makes a good point. Some zoos do list their "holdings" online.
Often they use common names which doesn't help.
And then there is the issue of how often they get updated.

Does the AZA have a way of searching for zoo holdings on their website?

From the San Antonio zoo website, we can see that their Asian amphibs include -

Japanese giant salamander
Vietnamese mossy frog

And Asian reptiles include:
Annam leaf turtle
Gharial
Habu
Hamilton’s pond turtle
Indian flapshell turtle
Kanburian pitviper
King cobra
Komodo dragon
Malay gharial (tomistoma)
Malaysian painted terrapin
Mang mountain viper
Radiated tortoise
Red mountain racer
Rhinoceros snake
Snub-nosed viper
Tentacle snake
Turanian viper
User avatar
Kevin Messenger
Posts: 536
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:00 pm
Location: Nanjing, China
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Kevin Messenger »

damn. Yeah, I did a search on the Chattanooga aquarium, which supposedly has the largest collection/ diversity of turtles. They had some online images/ names.
User avatar
SurfinHerp
Posts: 653
Joined: October 18th, 2010, 8:55 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by SurfinHerp »

Hi Kevin,

The San Diego Zoo certainly has one of the best collections of Asian herps in the US.

Here is a partial list:

king cobra
Chinese alligator
Komodo dragons
Burmese pythons
Indian python
blood python
Chinese three-striped box turtle
Roti Island snake-necked turtles
gharials


I know there are many, many more Asian reptiles, and probably some amphibians as well.



Jeff
User avatar
Tuataurifer
Posts: 52
Joined: November 6th, 2013, 6:38 pm
Location: STL

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Tuataurifer »

Here at Saint Louis we have a decent collection. We have Azemiops, Mangshans, P. jerdoni jerdoni, P. cornutus, Tomistoma schlegelii, a few Cuora species, Chitra chitra, a few Heosemys, Ovophis, etc.
User avatar
Kevin Messenger
Posts: 536
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:00 pm
Location: Nanjing, China
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Kevin Messenger »

well hmmm...... I definitely think I might have to put Saint Louis on the list! You have several species that I've never seen, or know anyone else has seen. Would a behind the scenes/ photo opportunity be a possibility there? Pretty sure I will be driving through Saint Louis in December (on my way to KS for the holidays)
User avatar
Knightkrawler5
Posts: 257
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 6:54 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Knightkrawler5 »

And the Saint Louis Zoo is free!
User avatar
jonathan
Posts: 3689
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:39 am
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by jonathan »

Yeah, St. Louis Zoo has a fantastic reptile house. Of all the American zoos I've been too (at least, of the ones that still exist), St. Louis and San Diego had the best array of Asian herps, but Saint Louis had a far larger reptile house than San Diego did.
User avatar
justinm
Posts: 3423
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:26 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by justinm »

Just took my kids to the St. Louis zoo last week. It's world class for certain. The reptile house is very well done, and I know that they do often allow behind the scenes for herp groups, so I would think that it's not out of the realm of possibility. I had met someone from their herp keeping group last year at the Midwest Herp Symposium, unfortunately that contact has never responded to emails or I would give you their information.
Jimi
Posts: 1955
Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Jimi »

St. Louis and San Diego had the best array of Asian herps, but Saint Louis had a far larger reptile house than San Diego did.
Huh. I wonder if you missed SD's big house and just hit the 3-4 little outliers down by the tortoises? I was also in St Louis late last week (rain!) and hit the zoo. Yes, nice collection (and with more Asian vipers - SD has Mangs and jerdonii (xanthomelas), but not the Tri-viper nor Azemiops nor Ovophis like St Louis). But in overall herp-collection diversity and scale...I found it nothing like SD's. Unless they also have several herp buildings and I missed the big one. I doubt I did though - it was the one kind of reminiscent of Steinhart Aquarium, with the big (and Asian!) aquatic turtles in the central atrium. And it said "Reptiles" in the ancient-looking stonework.

Free (or put more correctly - with a different revenue model than "big entrance fees") is a major added bonus of St Louis zoo. I think they cover costs with the same state sales tax that funds their Dept of Conservation? Could be wrong...

cheers
Jimi
User avatar
justinm
Posts: 3423
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:26 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by justinm »

Jimi wrote:
St. Louis and San Diego had the best array of Asian herps, but Saint Louis had a far larger reptile house than San Diego did.
Huh. I wonder if you missed SD's big house and just hit the 3-4 little outliers down by the tortoises? I was also in St Louis late last week (rain!) and hit the zoo. Yes, nice collection (and with more Asian vipers - SD has Mangs and jerdonii (xanthomelas), but not the Tri-viper nor Azemiops nor Ovophis like St Louis). But in overall herp-collection diversity and scale...I found it nothing like SD's. Unless they also have several herp buildings and I missed the big one. I doubt I did though - it was the one kind of reminiscent of Steinhart Aquarium, with the big (and Asian!) aquatic turtles in the central atrium. And it said "Reptiles" in the ancient-looking stonework.

Free (or put more correctly - with a different revenue model than "big entrance fees") is a major added bonus of St Louis zoo. I think they cover costs with the same state sales tax that funds their Dept of Conservation? Could be wrong...

cheers
Jimi
Jimi,

The majority of their operating costs come from the family that used to own Budweiser. The same family that built the original paved roads in St. Louis. There is only one main reptile building with what I understand is an even larger collection behind the scenes.
User avatar
gbin
Posts: 2292
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 4:28 pm

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by gbin »

chrish wrote:Does the AZA have a way of searching for zoo holdings on their website?
Another organization maintains a database of zoo animal holdings, ISIS (International Species Information System). They used to allow internet searching of their database, but don't at present. Apparently one can e-mail them with a request for inventory information on up to five species, though.
Jimi wrote:Free (or put more correctly - with a different revenue model than "big entrance fees") is a major added bonus of St Louis zoo. I think they cover costs with the same state sales tax that funds their Dept of Conservation? Could be wrong...
A substantial portion of their funding comes from taxes, all right, but I believe it's property rather than sales. They also have a strong association and active membership program, and attract considerable donations from certain wealthy individuals/families (as justinm mentioned) and corporations (including some unsavory characters trying to rehabilitate their reputations, such as Monsanto). Finally, although there's no entrance fee, they do have a parking fee and a long list of attraction fees once one is inside. None of this is meant as criticism - I too think they're one of the world's best zoos, and I'd like to see them get even more money than they do - but just to point out that there of course isn't really any such thing as a free zoo. Nor should there be.

Gerry
Jimi
Posts: 1955
Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Jimi »

Jimi,

The majority of their operating costs come from the family that used to own Budweiser. The same family that built the original paved roads in St. Louis. There is only one main reptile building with what I understand is an even larger collection behind the scenes.
Cool, thanks Justin!

Yeah, I think it's pretty standard to have a lot of one's collection off-display, particularly in the case of those species for which an institution is an important member of a conservation coalition - as St Louis is for several Montivipera species; some zoos have species in their collections, behind the scenes, that are never put on display.
there of course isn't really any such thing as a free zoo
Right, a point I was making when I said "more correctly - a different revenue model than big entrance fees". There has to be revenue from somewhere, to cover costs and launch new endeavors. Payroll, utilities, insurance, facilities maintenance, and then the animal feed - the costs must be incredible. That's just to "stay in place" (which must actually be a hard run, every day). Any new construction or remodeling would seem to be almost impossible...hats off to the leadership and also the development staffs.

For anyone who has not been there yet - the zoo in DC (part of the Smithsonian) also has no entrance fee. And is quite nice, with a good herp collection. Or used to - I haven't been in years.

cheers,
Jimi
User avatar
Tuataurifer
Posts: 52
Joined: November 6th, 2013, 6:38 pm
Location: STL

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Tuataurifer »

gbin wrote:
chrish wrote:Does the AZA have a way of searching for zoo holdings on their website?
Another organization maintains a database of zoo animal holdings, ISIS (International Species Information System). They used to allow internet searching of their database, but don't at present. Apparently one can e-mail them with a request for inventory information on up to five species, though.
Jimi wrote:Free (or put more correctly - with a different revenue model than "big entrance fees") is a major added bonus of St Louis zoo. I think they cover costs with the same state sales tax that funds their Dept of Conservation? Could be wrong...
A substantial portion of their funding comes from taxes, all right, but I believe it's property rather than sales. They also have a strong association and active membership program, and attract considerable donations from certain wealthy individuals/families (as justinm mentioned) and corporations (including some unsavory characters trying to rehabilitate their reputations, such as Monsanto). Finally, although there's no entrance fee, they do have a parking fee and a long list of attraction fees once one is inside. None of this is meant as criticism - I too think they're one of the world's best zoos, and I'd like to see them get even more money than they do - but just to point out that there of course isn't really any such thing as a free zoo. Nor should there be.

Gerry
I work in the Herpetology dept here in St. Louis. Well said.
Barry R
Posts: 463
Joined: March 16th, 2011, 11:27 am
Location: Shawnee Hills, IN

Re: zoos in the US that have best representation of Asian he

Post by Barry R »

Image
I think this is a Pig Nose Turtle, from the Chattanooga Aquarium

Image
I don't recall the species, but I think they were Chinese, C. Aquarium

Image
Tomistoma, St. Augustine Alligator Farm, FL.

Image
Mangrove Snake, St. Augustine

Image
Komodo Dragon, St. Augustine
Post Reply