Texas ID ?'s

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krismunk
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Texas ID ?'s

Post by krismunk »

I'm getting my pictures from my recent Texas trip sorted out now, so ready with a slew of ID questions. I had more but I have by now contented myself that a slightly odd looking young toad was just another valliceps, the narrowmouth from the forest carolinensis despite the lack of dorsal markings, the nearly unicolour whiptails marmoratus, all the small brown Big Bend lizards uta, etc.

These, then, are the ones I'm still not quite certain of. Please excuse the poor pics but if they were better I might not have been in doubt ;)

#1: A rather large and stocky dark water snake from the Woodlands. At first I thought it was an erythrogaster but when I saw a beautiful juvenile fasciata just a couple of feet away I started to wonder whether it wasn't in fact just a big ugly broad banded - still not certain.

dark:
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pattern discernible:
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#2: A small lizard from Big Bend NP - by the river in the south eastern end of the park. For some reason I have a hard time with this one. When I saw it (quick glimpse) I thought earless but looking at the picture I think maybe Sceloporus merriami? I'm a little embarassed because the two shouldn't really be candidates for confusion.

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#3: A very large Sceloporus, same location. There were plenty of smaller twin spotted scelops running around and then two much larger casing each other through the bushes. I only got this one poor pic. I guess it's just a large male twin spotted but they were so much larger than the others, without the spots and much more vivivly coloured, the other one more so - darker bluish / greenish. I saw a large twin spotted elsewhere in the park of nearly the same size but with pattern and colours much more like the smaller ones.

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#4 + 5: More Big Bend lizards, this time two whiptails from the south western end of the park, seen about 1/4 mile apart. I'm thinking tessellatus but I'm not comfortable without a question mark behind that.

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#6: Small toad from Big Bend Ranch State Park, muddy river bank next to flat desert - red spotted?

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#7: Tree frog seen at night ten feet up a tree in the Woodlands. I believe I see a green stripe along the side in the first picture so I guess it must be cinerea rather than a green squirella. I heard odd calls from the trees that I couldn't ID, sounded anuran though. I haven't had any luck looking for a sound file of the squirrela rain call but that was what I thought it might be at the time, hence the confusion. It wasn't raining, though, and didn't start to.

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#8 + 9: More frogs - well, frog spawn. I'm not used to anurans breeding at this time of year so I was wondering what species did? Both pics are from the Woodlands. Pics are from the edge of a rather large lake and a tire track or similar along a forest road respectively. The only anuran species I saw at this location were chorus frogs and bronze frogs but I don't doubt there are several others.

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#10: Not a herp this time but a mammal track that confuses me - from the muddy banks of the Rio Grande at the south eastern edge of Big Bend NP.

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Thanks for any and all help.
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Berkeley Boone
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Berkeley Boone »

Not much help on the herp stuff- just glanced quickly.....

The track looks to me like an otter. (I think I see six toes though- that would be unusual. But otherwise, it strikes me as otterish)
--Berkeley
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Rich in Reptiles
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Rich in Reptiles »

The track looks like a set of one track on top of the other (which isn't unusual to see). If I had to guess it would be some sort of canine like a coyote, but there's no size reference. You can faintly see the heel pad and 4 toe pads from the more evident track.
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krismunk
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by krismunk »

With the position of the toes I don't agree with the otter theory. I hadn't thought about the possibility of two tracks on top of each other. Size could be about right for coyote but to me it still looks like on clear track with four toes next to each other and a fifth at the side. It's the four next to each other that confuse me.
simus343
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by simus343 »

For the Nerodia its a tough call. Adult fasciata sometimes loose all discernible pattern on the dorsal side, and may appear like an erythrogaster. I would say a belly shot would be needed to determine the difference. I have seen Nerodia fasciata fasciata and Nerodia erythrogaster flavigaster that for all the world look the same from the top. The belly is the give-away in these events, where the N.e. flavigaster has a yellow ventral surface, and the N.f. fasciata has markings along the ventral surface.

The pattern in the second and third photograph are too blurry for me to get much from them other than it is a water-snake, which is obvious from the first pic haha, not a cottonmouth.

I don't know much about lizard IDs unfortunately, I can only give a solid ID on lizards of NW Florida.

The toad, I am not sure either, but if I were to guess I'd say red-spotted as well.

The Tree-frog to me appears to be Hyla cinerea. There are tonnes of Hyla squirella and Hyla cinerea around where I live. Though out-of-focus, the Hyla appears to have a solid white stripe past the region of the tympanum, much thicker than I have ever seen in a squirella. As far as the calling I have heard squirella calling and found cinerea, vise-verse, and both. They seem to co-exist quite often in my area and use the same ponds at the same time of year for breeding. Also, neither really requires rain to breed, I have seen both species in amplexus in swamps, ditches, lakes, and ponds during mildly warm to hot nights without rain present or on the forecast.

For the frog spawn I'm afraid I'm not too good with that unless I have an obvious size comparison. Even then I still go off educated guesses from what I have seen in the area.

The tracks to me appear otter. They are not coyote, and as far as I can tell not canine in origin. Canines, from a quick search, leave only four toe/claw marks, and your track leaves 5 obvious toe/claw marks, something that is characteristic of otters. The tracks are also not feline because 1) felines keep retracted claws while walking, and 2) the same 4 toe/claw rule as applies to canines. Also the spread of the print in general has a more otter-like appearance.
The sixth impression to the side could possibly have been from walking over its own tracks, tracks of another animal that was there prior to what I believe to be an otter, perhaps one of those unusual birth defects, or just a coincidental impression in the dirt from who-knows-what.
The track is also too short to be a beaver from what I have seen here in FL. From using FWC track guides, it seems beavers have more typically elongated feet/tracks than that of otters.
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Rich in Reptiles
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Rich in Reptiles »

Maybe this will help visualize what i'm seeing in the track photo. Tracks are very variable, one of the reasons why it can be hard to identify tracks in the field. Books and photos online most often show only illustrations, but tracks vary considerably depending on lots of different factors (e.g. substrate type, weight/age of the animal, locomotion type, etc.). Anyway, this is my contribution to the track I.D., hope someone will chime in and know for sure what it is. My guess is coyote!

Image
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cbernz
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by cbernz »

I agree with likely coyote. In any case, it is definitely two tracks overlayered. Just look at the position of the far left toe compared to the others - no mammal has a toe arrangement like that.

Also, it appears otter is not on the park's checklist.
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Jeff
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Jeff »

The water is N. erythrogaster - pattern clear in the underwater shot
First lizard is Sceloporus merriami
Spiny is S. magister/S.bimaculosus, whatever you wish to call it
First whiptail is Asp. tessellatus
Second is A. septemvittatus

I'd be guessing on the rest....

Jeff
simus343
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by simus343 »

Ah okay, thanks for outlining the image :). I didn't see it like that at first. It makes sense now. The missing claw could be explained by a coyote or other canine getting in a fight or snagging and losing it somehow.
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chrish
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by chrish »

Jeff wrote:The water is N. erythrogaster - pattern clear in the underwater shot
First lizard is Sceloporus merriami
Spiny is S. magister/S.bimaculosus, whatever you wish to call it
First whiptail is Asp. tessellatus
Second is A. septemvittatus
Jeff
Jeff is correct on the reptiles and the amphibians are
Anaxyrus speciosus (Red-spotted).....although something about the angle of that shot makes me want to say something else
Hyla cinerea

Could the eggs be salamander eggs?

The foot print makes me want to say it is a bear track, but that's just a feel. Of course, size would matter!
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krismunk
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by krismunk »

Thanks.

Assuming those of you who seem to think you know what you are talking about are right - and I'm rather comfortable with that - we got them all by now except the eggs which I didn't really think I'd get an ID on anyway adn perhaps the tracks.
chrish wrote:...the amphibians are
Anaxyrus speciosus (Red-spotted).....although something about the angle of that shot makes me want to say something else
That comment makes me slightly uneasy - care to elaborate?
chrish wrote:Could the eggs be salamander eggs?
I would have thought they were anuran but then again, sallywise I'm used to newts laying single eggs and unfamiliar with those of North American species so if you think so...?
chrish wrote:The foot print makes me want to say it is a bear track, but that's just a feel. Of course, size would matter!
That was my first thought as well. Size could probably fit with a young 'un but it didn't seem quite right anyway + apparently they aren't really "supposed" to be in that part of the park.
Rich in Reptiles wrote:Maybe this will help visualize what i'm seeing in the track photo. Tracks are very variable, one of the reasons why it can be hard to identify tracks in the field. Books and photos online most often show only illustrations, but tracks vary considerably depending on lots of different factors (e.g. substrate type, weight/age of the animal, locomotion type, etc.). Anyway, this is my contribution to the track I.D., hope someone will chime in and know for sure what it is. My guess is coyote!

Image
Thanks - seems reasonable, I guess. At first I hadn't even noticed the apparent impression of the sixth toe to the far left. I'm still not entirely certain that really is a toe print though and not just some sort of "smudge" from something unrelated to the track. What puzzled me was the position of the to the extreme right in relation to the four to the left of it.
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Berkeley Boone
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Berkeley Boone »

Looking at the track photo again, and Bethany's outline of it, I can agree with a double-registered (overlaid) coyote track. I adjusted the contrast on the picture on my end, and that made a bit of a difference. With the greater contrast, you can make out that there are two different impressions within her circled area of overlap, showing that there are two toe pads making it.

It is definitely NOT a bear. Having raised bears, I can guarantee you it is not a bear track.

--Berkeley
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Re: Texas ID ?'s

Post by Coluber Constrictor »

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