Pet Peeves

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » May 30th, 2015, 7:01 pm

What are your herper/herping/forum pet peeves? Here's a few of mine:

!. People who start a thread and ask a question and then never return to thank the responders (Not aimed at anyone in particular here-Jerry Hartley...

).
2. People who PM and ask a question and never respond after the answer is given.
3. The lack of participants here in the last 2 years, and the length of time it takes to get another response to a post.
4. The lack of interest in the database this year, and in the CA contest.
5. Newbies who ask for help and then disappear when we tell them to stick around and get to know the group.
6. Mistaking a dead bird for a dead box turtle at 65 mph...of course, this can be blamed on cataracts...

Those are a few I can think of right now...I'm sure there are more.

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » May 31st, 2015, 6:35 am

posts like this??

shredsteban · Post by **shredsteban** » May 31st, 2015, 6:51 am

I may be victim to Brian's #2 pet peeve. PM'd you about buying your books but never got around to getting them from you. My wife bought your Mtn King book for me this past Christmas from God only knows where..even after I gave her your email and directions on how to obtain the book from you! Sorry

#1 has to do with other herpers getting handouts/info from people, bringing new people to other peoples spots/lines to appear like they know it all AND THEN brag about how they've done all this groundwork and research all on their own and pat themselves on the back. These people have had more help than they would ever admit. Very frustrating for me because the same herpers are people that I taught a lot to at the beginning of their hobby. Granted, I only showed them what I knew at the time, which wasn't a lot, but it was invaluable information for them. I wouldn't be as frustrated if they didn't talk crap about different people behind their backs. Especially about other people who are putting in MORE work to further their hobby and the database. These people are burning other people's bridges and I hope they either get straightened out or figured out at some point.

#2 When people are overly competitive. I like competition. Even if I lose drastically, as long as it's all in good fun. At the end of the day, if people could just shake hands and say "good job", that would be awesome. I'm not saying we all need to be best friends and give free back massages, but you know what I mean. I'm tired of people putting others down just because of their pride.

#3 People who spread lies and rumors about others in the herping community because they don't like them for whatever pathetic reason. Grow up and get out of high school.

#4 People who come off as prestigious and "Holier than thou" herpers. This one really ticks me off because I am a part of "Generation Me". The social media using, selfie taking, entitled generation. It APPEARS that the majority of my generation of new herpers has brought this attitude into field herping. Personally, I think this is sad, but that's just my opinion. We'll see how this mentality plays out in the future of field herping.

Seems like I just dislike people and am very bothered by them. I'm not that upset over these things, just pet peeves and YOU asked Brian!

RobertH · Post by **RobertH** » May 31st, 2015, 8:48 am

The problem I see with this forum in general, and this is not a new problem, is that no one can say anything really interesting here because of our self-imposed code of silence. And since no one's posting anything really interesting, no one is really interested in reading this forum. At some point, when things are especially dead, as they are right now, someone, in this case you, Brian, will throw up a post like this just to kill the boredom that has set in. But, as we all still recall, stirring controversy didn't really help our problems back then. If anything, we lost even more people in the process.

What we need to do is not complain about things, but make them better somehow. Until then, the interesting stuff will continue to happen offline in pm's, by phone, etc. I have had fascinating exchanges with forum members, mostly database contributors, about hard to find species, etc.. Obviously, this forum would not have been an appropriate place for those exchanges. But maybe, we can come up with a way to introduce a modicum of depth into this forum, so that people that have something interesting to say will say it and that people who want to read something interesting will have something to read.

What I have in mind are posts that go beyond the usual "here's some pics of what I road cruised last weekend" posts. I suggested before that posters share particularly interesting and/or difficult finds explaining - without getting into locality-specific information - what it took to make the find. But again, the poster will be severely hamstrung by the code of silence. Locality-specific information is only one type of information we don't share here. We also don't meaningfully talk about herping technique, again out of fear that this information will be abused by some, as it surely will in a small number of instances.

So, I don't know whether the situation can be fixed. As for me and Nicholas, we will continue to communicate with people through the database and by pm, to keep things interesting and meaningful.

Robert

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » May 31st, 2015, 1:47 pm

shredsteban: I wasn't really thinking about book sales or inquiries when I wrote #2, but I guess some of those can apply. Several people have asked me on Facebook why I do not ship books to other countries, and this is a classic reason. I research the cost and write back to those asking about overseas or Canadian sales, and then they never get back to me. I finally decided to just shun foreign buyers unless they were serious and wanted to buy a lot of books. Anyway, that's another peeve...

Robert mentioned our code of silence. We have that code to protect our spots and herps from those who do not respect the habitat or the animals. We have lost many regular forum members over the years because they got tired of going to their spots just to see damage and no animals because some forum member told his buddies where the place was. I just spoke to a Nafha member today who was complaining about the "entourage herping" ethic we see too much of. He's lost some friends over it.

Many do not understand the need for secrecy when it comes to certain spots, but eventually they "get it" after their own sites are destroyed because of their big mouths. This is not a new problem, and it will not go away soon. It will never go away among those who are too lazy to set up their own sites for herping.

Thanks for the input guys. I know I don't share many pretty pictures here, but i do enjoy the intelligent discussions we have. I also enjoy a little competion when it comes to data entering. My thanks to Nicholas for that...

PS-if you want to see some of my herp pics (and some of my comic book collection) check out my flickr albums. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » May 31st, 2015, 2:30 pm

i remember my 1st EVER pm to Fundad... I offered to split the gas to drive to Fl, to kick KW's ass... ahhhh.. the good ole days...

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » May 31st, 2015, 2:36 pm

Over 7,000 posts and still no content...

SurfinHerp · Post by **SurfinHerp** » May 31st, 2015, 3:30 pm

Hey Brian - I checked out your Flickr pages. You take some good photos! Based on all the voucher shots you enter into HERP, I figured you didn't make the effort to take good shots. Guess I was wrong. You should post a few here on FHF occasionally. I especially liked your Milksnake page

Jeff

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » May 31st, 2015, 4:35 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:Over 7,000 posts and still no content...

I had more 'content' in my few years as an IBM, than you've had before or since then... I don't remember you much when it came to re-writing the bylaws... oh that's right... no bragging in bylaws rewrites...

soulsurvivor · Post by **soulsurvivor** » May 31st, 2015, 5:05 pm

One of my biggest gripes here is people who have asked me directly for help, which I gave, and then they never said thank you, and similarly, people that posted generally, and then never said thank you when I PM'd them. I'm about done bothering trying to help anyone. There are a lot of arrogant arseholes on this forum. Indeed, I miss the old days. What happened?

~Bree

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » May 31st, 2015, 6:07 pm

soulsurvivor wrote:One of my biggest gripes here is people who have asked me directly for help, which I gave, and then they never said thank you, and similarly, people that posted generally, and then never said thank you when I PM'd them. I'm about done bothering trying to help anyone. There are a lot of arrogant arseholes on this forum. Indeed, I miss the old days. What happened?

~Bree

Kids think they are entitled, nowadays... every thing SHOULD be handed to them. Compared to FB, though... this site still draws in the best and brightest... they sometimes either just haven't gotten around to learning manners... or are in the habit of skipping ettiquette, given the fast-paced 4-G info orgy they're growing up in...

soulsurvivor · Post by **soulsurvivor** » May 31st, 2015, 6:19 pm

Hellihooks, the two individuals I'm thinking of are not "kids", to my knowledge. But rudeness can exist in any age group. Just to be clear though, I'm not talking about giving locations. I don't give my spots to people I haven't personally herped with. I have tried to help people with other things, like types of habitat for their targets, and was rewarded with smugness and douchebaggery.

~Bree

Tamara D. McConnell · Post by **Tamara D. McConnell** » May 31st, 2015, 7:42 pm

People who start a thread and ask a question and then never return to thank the responders

I used to do this all the time. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. For an embarrassingly long time, I did not know how to respond. I mean I did not know technically how to work the computer to do it. Moronic, yes. But true. I'm sure people thought I was ungrateful or rude, but I was just absolutely baffled by my computer. It took an even longer time for me to figure out how to include quotes in responses.

LouB747 · Post by **LouB747** » May 31st, 2015, 8:00 pm

Facebook and Facebook Groups

There are so many posts on there it's hard to keep up. You can see what's being found and when. It's easy to upload images without having to upload to a photo sharing sight first and then copy the image code. That's a PITA, especially from phones.

I used to look to this sight first, now I just glance occasionally as it seems not much gets posted. And the guys who find the most snakes seem to post the least.

All this said, The Forum does have some great posts.

Just my thoughts.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » May 31st, 2015, 8:27 pm

OK...you want to see pics? Go to my FB page and look at the 2 newest one's I put up. The first pic is one I added some word balloons to... https://www.facebook.com/tricolorbrian

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » May 31st, 2015, 9:14 pm

SurfinHerp wrote:Hey Brian - I checked out your Flickr pages. You take some good photos! Based on all the voucher shots you enter into HERP, I figured you didn't make the effort to take good shots. Guess I was wrong. You should post a few here on FHF occasionally. I especially liked your Milksnake page

Jeff

Thanks. Once in awhile I either get lucky or take the time to make a picture look good, but usually I just snap a quick voucher and hope for the best. It depends on what the subject is, what the shooting conditions are, and whether I have time to really try. That's a problem for us data junkies...slowing down to really get the best shot. I'll try to post more pics here, but the photobucket and tiny pic.com thing is really a downer. I'd rather just slap them into my flickr pages or put them in FB. Guess I'm like a lot of the people who seldom post pics anymore. It just takes too much time. But, here's a recent pond turtle pic. I like the colors on this male:

And a YOY:

MarcLinsalata · Post by **MarcLinsalata** » May 31st, 2015, 10:21 pm

People who don't add the time found in their database records..............

Helleri · Post by **Helleri** » May 31st, 2015, 11:13 pm

No rant board.

Jeroen Speybroeck · Post by **Jeroen Speybroeck** » June 1st, 2015, 1:42 am

I was going to write "people who never stop promoting their books", but I changed my mind. Or didn't I?

I am one of those weirdos who still tries to deny the existence of FB, but I would also guess a lot of action has moved that way. I'm not a CA member (or even an American), but I can only say how I have highly valued the excellent help I have received from people on this forum, not only for USA trips (3), but also for herping Peru and Malaysia.

I've also been disappointed by people I trusted, but if you're seasoned enough I would think you learn to judge a person's approach quite well. And, yes, that has resulted in me being much more protective and careful than before, so I may only help a minority of obvious "good herpers".

While a certain someone relentlessly bragging about having thousands of records might deter people who yet have to enter their first record, I'm afraid there's a lot of "don't care" in this world if you look at database projects. Another thing might be that people rather use more comprehensive portals instead of one that focuses on a single fauna group (as we have noticed down here).

I think this thread might be beneficial to get stuff off your chest, but not to change anything. A grumpy old men debate is hardly going to harvest good people/posts, right? I think Robert raised some useful, more constructive points. I am quite sure that the enthusiasm of many starts ánd persists mainly because of people posting pictures here. Brian, you can just as easily post pics from Flickr.

Brian Hubbs wrote:too lazy to set up their own sites for herping.

Off topic - I call this the "gardening version" of herping. I'm not saying it's not a lot of fun or even the basis for research if you want. Yet, to my mind laying out some "habitat bait" is more lazy than working non-managed or even "unknown" territory. I have no trouble confessing that's why I laid out my boards. But of course Brian most likely refers to people who are too lazy to do either.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 1st, 2015, 8:26 am

Despite your little jabs at me once in awhile, I think you are a good person and a good herper, despite being a Belgian...

Seriously though, it's still a hassle to post pics from flickr here. I just wish we could upload directly from our computer files.

Jeroen Speybroeck · Post by **Jeroen Speybroeck** » June 1st, 2015, 10:08 am

Brian Hubbs wrote:Despite your little jabs at me once in awhile, I think you are a good person and a good herper, despite being a Belgian...

We all have our flaws

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 1st, 2015, 10:26 am

And, the only reason I sometimes brag about DB numbers is to motivate others to catch the fever and enter more data. Most humans are competitive in nature, so I think the contests help, but I actually have my own goals and agenda for entering data. I'm trying to fill my google earth map with voucher icons...

Kent VanSooy · Post by **Kent VanSooy** » June 1st, 2015, 4:28 pm

What not to post on a fish report forum:

1.Photos of your half eaten breakfast
2.Photos of your friends sleeping
3.Comments like "we killed it at our secret spot"
4.Bashing sport-fishing open charters or asking for dope on "fish reports"
5.Inaccurate fish weight claims
6.Fishing videos exceeding 2 hours and the use of "The Final Countdown" music
7.Justin Bieber

Ah crap....wrong hobby!

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » June 2nd, 2015, 7:58 am

Kent VanSooy wrote:What not to post on a fish report forum:

1.Photos of your half eaten breakfast
2.Photos of your friends sleeping
3.Comments like "we killed it at our secret spot"
4.Bashing sport-fishing open charters or asking for dope on "fish reports"
5.Inaccurate fish weight claims
6.Fishing videos exceeding 2 hours and the use of "The Final Countdown" music
7.Justin Bieber

Ah crap....wrong hobby!

I am shocked and dismayed Kent, that you would make such an egregious error... mentioning Bieber on these forums...

Fieldnotes · Post by **Fieldnotes** » June 2nd, 2015, 3:07 pm

Pet Peeves: People who post "I love L.A." videos on a herp forum.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 2nd, 2015, 3:15 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

SurfinHerp · Post by **SurfinHerp** » June 2nd, 2015, 5:03 pm

Nice high-yellow pond turtle Brian! Thanks for posting that.

Fieldnotes · Post by **Fieldnotes** » June 2nd, 2015, 8:23 pm

Dang, Someone is stuck in the 80's... https://youtu.be/hFWngq2L99o

Yeah, like Jeff said, cool turtle. But when you think of it, after photographing a jillion turtles your bound to come across at least one that is interesting.

Like Yoda said to Luke, "when your ready I'll help you find something cool, like a Mountain King." (episode 1)

shredsteban · Post by **shredsteban** » June 2nd, 2015, 11:43 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

&#*$^@RH#R

Did I just get RICK ROLLED? I haven't even ventured onto the weird side of youtube..

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 3rd, 2015, 10:46 am

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » June 3rd, 2015, 6:05 pm

I like Rick... and his songs... so ya all can kiss my butt... lol

shredsteban · Post by **shredsteban** » June 4th, 2015, 8:43 am

Fieldnotes wrote:Dang, Someone is stuck in the 80's... https://youtu.be/hFWngq2L99o

Yeah, like Jeff said, cool turtle. But when you think of it, after photographing a jillion turtles your bound to come across at least one that is interesting.

Like Yoda said to Luke, "when your ready I'll help you find something cool, like a Mountain King." (episode 1)

Brian just wants to be "Forever Young"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TcDHrkQYg

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 4th, 2015, 9:53 am

Brian just likes music...and there's so little that's really good today that I like to listen to my favorites from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s...along with a few current good ones...

hellihooks · Post by **hellihooks** » June 4th, 2015, 4:19 pm

Straight, Bi, Gay, tran-hubbsian... who cares...

THIS guy (not gay enough to remember his name) was at a birthday party in hollywood and sang happy birthday in 4 octives... record producer heard him and said... I'm gonna make you a STAR!!! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bG_zk6 ... dded#t=176

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 5th, 2015, 3:24 pm

Is that Richard Simmons?

shredsteban · Post by **shredsteban** » June 6th, 2015, 7:18 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:Brian just likes music...and there's so little that's really good today that I like to listen to my favorites from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s...along with a few current good ones...

I'm a youngster, but grew up listening to Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Tom Petty, Pink Floyd and the list goes on. But I think you should give the band "Dawes" a listen. One of my favorite modern bands. They have a sound that is very reminiscent of some of the artists I've already listed. Their album "Nothing is Wrong" is a personal favorite, but I like just about anything they come out with. Here's a taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtxKFpJ39HM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdjxDLZrtKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuu4MRVfAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XWoi_1TfgE

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 7th, 2015, 5:41 pm

He sounds a lot like Neil Young...but you gotta see this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohwftj6mMSw

and this is just awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=wqg-MA6-X0M

condyle · Post by **condyle** » June 7th, 2015, 9:34 pm

1. Herp Forum's that sound like a group therapy session from a Ken Keasy Novel.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 7th, 2015, 10:47 pm

Which one is nurse Rachet?

KichiMark · Post by **KichiMark** » June 15th, 2015, 8:29 pm

I lurk here mostly because even though I feel like I am an O.K. herper it can be sometimes intimidating with the herping God's around

haha nah I am joking. I just noticed I missed a trip to survey Blunt Nosed Leopards which I have been trying to find for a while but with work and baby it really limits my free time. I really need to make it a habit to visit the site more. For all those who have helped me (Robert, Fundad, Hubbs) I thank you for your patience and hope to see you guys in the field one day soon.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » June 23rd, 2015, 11:14 pm

I'm changing my name to "Seldom Seen Slim"...

mattg · Post by **mattg** » June 29th, 2015, 7:13 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote: 3. The lack of participants here in the last 2 years, and the length of time it takes to get another response to a post.
4. The lack of interest in the database this year, and in the CA contest.

Only 6690 records so far in CA.

Top 2 people have almost 40% of total records entered. (amazing efforts by the way

)
Top 5 people have approx 62.5% of the records entered.
Top 10 people have approx 77% of the records entered.
Only 13 people have 100+ records entered

This is a bummer to me, i understand there are a couple people who are not entering as many as they normally would due to personal things. I also know that some people ( myself included) lag on getting records entered . I also know some people wait until the end of the year( out of season) to enter their records. That being said i have noticed some newer people contributing more regularly, and i am happy to see that. I am hopeful we can hit 10,000 records this year. maybe even 12,000 is not to far out of reach?? As of right now 2014 saw us enter 12,797 records!! soo lets get out there in this crazy heat and (Drought?) and find some fence lizards!!!

FunkyRes · Post by **FunkyRes** » July 15th, 2015, 11:56 pm

Sorry I kind of dropped out for awhile.

I'm kind of back, maybe, we'll see.

KichiMark · Post by **KichiMark** » July 16th, 2015, 7:27 am

mattg wrote:
Brian Hubbs wrote: 3. The lack of participants here in the last 2 years, and the length of time it takes to get another response to a post.
4. The lack of interest in the database this year, and in the CA contest.

Only 6690 records so far in CA.
Top 2 people have almost 40% of total records entered. (amazing efforts by the way )
Top 5 people have approx 62.5% of the records entered.
Top 10 people have approx 77% of the records entered.
Only 13 people have 100+ records entered

This is a bummer to me, i understand there are a couple people who are not entering as many as they normally would due to personal things. I also know that some people ( myself included) lag on getting records entered . I also know some people wait until the end of the year( out of season) to enter their records. That being said i have noticed some newer people contributing more
regularly, and i am happy to see that. I am hopeful we can hit 10,000 records this year. maybe even 12,000 is not to far out of reach?? As of right now 2014 saw us enter 12,797 records!! soo lets get out there in this crazy heat and (Drought?) and find some fence lizards!!!

Wow, that is a big difference. I am trying to get enough records as I can with the free time I have but I also tend to just focus on the more unusual (I don't see very often) species. I tend to ignore the uta's and other common lizards but if I didn't my records would be growing exponentially. I guess I am in the stage still focusing on finding lifers and find excitement in that.

One thing I do enjoy about this place is making new friends and just recently herping with Robert and Nicholas Hess and they helped me find two lifers and it was actually pretty fun to learn new things and chat with like minded folks.

ricrabt · Post by **ricrabt** » July 28th, 2015, 3:32 pm

Herpers that tail rattlesnakes in front of young and impressionable herpers....

kingsnakeadam · Post by **kingsnakeadam** » July 30th, 2015, 9:54 pm

People who care way to much about the data base and competition...... haha j/k.

Actually what does bother me about this forum is a huge lack of respect some people have and the ganging up on newbies, I've seen this a few times and you know that really turns people off. You older more experienced herps should be hear to help the next generation of herpers not discurag them. It happens way to often on hear from people just asking simple question. I do think some stuff people do need to figure out on their own but general tips and info I think is great and should be shared and general info has been shared with me over the years. With that said I'm not new at all to herping, I have been herping for about 13 years now and just the last few years have been involved with the forum and stuff. I have learned a lot on my own and am still learning. I go herping during different conditions to different places and that's how I have learned a lot on my own. Others should do the same.

MarcLinsalata · Post by **MarcLinsalata** » July 30th, 2015, 11:51 pm

kingsnakeadam wrote: Actually what does bother me about this forum is a huge lack of respect some people have and the ganging up on newbies, I've seen this a few times and you know that really turns people off. You older more experienced herps should be hear to help the next generation of herpers not discurag them. It happens way to often on hear from people just asking simple question. I do think some stuff people do need to figure out on their own but general tips and info I think is great and should be shared and general info has been shared with me over the years. With that said I'm not new at all to herping, I have been herping for about 13 years now and just the last few years have been involved with the forum and stuff. I have learned a lot on my own and am still learning. I go herping during different conditions to different places and that's how I have learned a lot on my own. Others should do the same.

Brian Hubbs · Post by **Brian Hubbs** » July 31st, 2015, 12:06 pm

We're rude? No...

I think we might be a little rude to some newbies who just come here to find out where to hunt and how to find stuff...but I don't think we are rude to most newbies. You gotta ask for it for us to be rude to you. Heck, there ain't many of us left here to be rude. It was a lot worse in 2003...I was there...

Kelly Mc · Post by **Kelly Mc** » May 5th, 2016, 1:22 pm

It didn't start out to be a peeve because of interest in subjects would be overriding ..

but when people PM correlative discussion, but for some reason wont apply it to the publicly viewed thread.

They could add something of value for the topic, even the body of knowledge, but seem to weigh it on a social scale or some such nonsense of associative pettiness.

Thorny · Post by **Thorny** » May 5th, 2016, 5:29 pm

Brian Hubbs wrote:And, the only reason I sometimes brag about DB numbers is to motivate others to catch the fever and enter more data. Most humans are competitive in nature, so I think the contests help, but I actually have my own goals and agenda for entering data. I'm trying to fill my google earth map with voucher icons...

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that when people compare themselves to someone leaps and bounds ahead of them it is more likely to hurt their motivation than help it. Look in the mirror and you will see why more people don't use the database Mr. Hubbs.

I don't have a great reason for not using the database more often and I guilt trip myself for not contributing more to herp science and conservation on a regular basis. However, I don't have wifi and going to Starbucks to submit photo vouchers was getting in the way of valuable herping time. Given the database may have evolved since then is something I may need to look into...

The fact that only 13 people have 100+ accounts will likely do more to inspire me since my contribution will likely be noticed. I am motivated for the wrong reasons but motivated none the less.

I agree facebook is just easier but, while am a I lurker, I am glad this site exists and believe that the more united and connected herp enthusiats are the better.

Pet peeve, Tinder dates that agree to go on a date with me without reading my profile and then proceed to tell me "I never really did like turtles" over coffee.