My sister found this snake in her yard recently. I assume this is T. sirtalis fitchi? Are there other possibilities for Stockton?
Only one image available - here:
https://flic.kr/p/xnoANv
Thanks!
Ken
Valley Gartersnake?
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- yoloherper
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
It actually looks to be a mountain garter snake, T. e. elegans, which has a population on the valley floor in that area. Cool find!
-Elliot
-Elliot
Re: Valley Gartersnake?
Thanks Elliot! Can you tell me briefly how to tell the two species apart? I know the photo isn't great...
Best wishes,
Ken
Best wishes,
Ken
- yoloherper
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
Generally fitchi has faint to prominent red markings along its sides which this snake lacks. Other than that, elegans often has faint black markings where the upper labials meet creating little verticle lines of black on the lips which are pretty visible on this snake. If you look at californiaherps, there are loads of pictures of both and you can see what i'm talking about. I think somewhere on the site, there might be a thamnophis ID key which could be useful.
- Chad M. Lane
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
Actually I'd reckon that, it's a Diablo Range Gartersnake (Thamnophis atratus zaxanthus), not a Mountain Gartersnake (Thamnophis elegans elegans), I've found quite a few Diablos in Stockton, and a Coast Gartersnake north in Lodi.
Cheers,
Chad
Cheers,
Chad
Re: Valley Gartersnake?
Thanks for your comments Chad. Since there seems to be some disagreement on the ID of this snake, could you explain why you think it's a Diablo gartersnake? I realize that we only have the one low-power photo, so maybe it can't be definitively identified? I've entered this observation into the HERP database, and would like to get the ID correct if at all possible!
Re: Valley Gartersnake?
I'm on the elegans side of the fence with this one, though the wide dorsal stripe is more of an atratus feature. I have seen T. e. terrestris looking similar to your snake:
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
While certainly not qualified to have an opinion... it seems to me that perhaps 'secondary' factors, like proximity to water, could tilt the scales. (no pun intended, for once)
Of the two leading candidates... isn't one more terrestrial, and one more aquatic? How far from water 'in her yard' was the snake found?
Also... I believe the DB will accept species entered at the 'family' level... jim
Of the two leading candidates... isn't one more terrestrial, and one more aquatic? How far from water 'in her yard' was the snake found?
Also... I believe the DB will accept species entered at the 'family' level... jim
Re: Valley Gartersnake?
This snake was found in a suburban backyard in Stockton - about 100-200 meters from a slough that is currently dry....
- yoloherper
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
Chad could you post a pic of a stockton atratus? My understanding was that they didn't range onto the valley floor, as historically, the area would have been home to gigas.
-Elliot
-Elliot
Re: Valley Gartersnake?
My albeit poor gartersnake IDing skills also call it a Mountain Gartersnake (Thamnophis elegans elegans). It seems if atratus occur in this area it may represent a range extension.
I too would like to see a stockon atratus photo?
I too would like to see a stockon atratus photo?
- Chad M. Lane
- Posts: 567
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:40 pm
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Re: Valley Gartersnake?
The quick ID character for it being a Mountain Garter is the finely serrate margins of the vertebral stripe, which can be seen as tiny pale marks extending outward from the stripe.
Jeff
Jeff