ID Black Snake from Lebanon

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Brendan Murray
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ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Brendan Murray » September 28th, 2015, 10:50 am

Hi all,

My sister lives in Lebanon and sent me this photo of a snake she found while walking. Any help with the id?

Image

Thanks!

Brendan

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yoloherper
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by yoloherper » September 28th, 2015, 1:03 pm

I'm guessing Dolichophis jugularis based on a quick google search, but hopefully someone with experience herping in the middle east will chime in.
-Elliot

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 28th, 2015, 3:16 pm

Maybe someone else could say something, maybe it would be received better. I really don't want to be the one all the time.

It could be a pm, or a friendly hey bro.

Its not being soft or picky, its just encouraging good form, with the snakes we say we like so much. It also reflects our standard of behavior to the world, who can check out what people who care about snakes are like. Because we want them to like them too, right?

I think we all know what is meant. In these times it all matters.

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intermedius
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by intermedius » September 28th, 2015, 3:35 pm

It is hard to tell due to the photograph not showing the lateral side of the head, but it is either Dolichophis jugularis, a harmless colubrid related to the racers of eurasia and North America or Walterinnesia aegyptia.

The latter is a highly venomous relative of the cobras, often called the "Desert Black Cobra". They are found from Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Syria.

Based on what I can tell from the head, I am tentatively leaning towards Dolichophis jugularis

- Justin

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 28th, 2015, 3:51 pm

Oh yeah, and ignoring it constantly only enforces a lord of the flies image with entities that have say in our pursuits.

Its just common sense responsibility.

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mtratcliffe
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by mtratcliffe » September 28th, 2015, 5:20 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:Maybe someone else could say something, maybe it would be received better. I really don't want to be the one all the time.

It could be a pm, or a friendly hey bro.

Its not being soft or picky, its just encouraging good form, with the snakes we say we like so much. It also reflects our standard of behavior to the world, who can check out what people who care about snakes are like. Because we want them to like them too, right?

I think we all know what is meant. In these times it all matters.
...what? I'm having the hardest time putting this into context.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 28th, 2015, 5:40 pm

This site sets the bar. It is of the highest caliber in members, photography, and mission.

If someone has an avatar that isn't in good field behavior form, perhaps it could be addressed in a helpful spirit. For the collective good.

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mtratcliffe
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by mtratcliffe » September 28th, 2015, 6:13 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:This site sets the bar. It is of the highest caliber in members, photography, and mission.

If someone has an avatar that isn't in good field behavior form, perhaps it could be addressed in a helpful spirit. For the collective good.
Ohh, gotcha. It wasn't clear that you were referring to his avatar, but I see what you mean.

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chrish
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by chrish » September 29th, 2015, 4:42 am

Kelly Mc wrote:This site sets the bar. It is of the highest caliber in members, photography, and mission.

If someone has an avatar that isn't in good field behavior form, perhaps it could be addressed in a helpful spirit. For the collective good.
Or people could just let it go and move on.

Having the responsibility of being the morality police for the forum must be a burdensome task.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 29th, 2015, 6:05 am

Catch phrases like "morality police", wont make me choose apathy instead.

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krismunk
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by krismunk » September 29th, 2015, 6:09 am

Dolichophis jugularis

MCHerper
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by MCHerper » September 29th, 2015, 6:11 am

I thought that Kelly was referring to the fact that the snake looks like it had been macheted about 1/3rd to 1/4 of the way up the back.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 29th, 2015, 6:18 am

No, I was referring to the herper.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 29th, 2015, 6:36 am

Snakes just get the shit end of the stick I guess, huh.

Not just from the GP but from the people that 'think they're amazing

That's great.

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Noah M
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Noah M » September 30th, 2015, 5:25 am

I honestly didn't even look at the avatar until it was brought up. My eyes usually just focus on the message and pictures to the right, not the smaller picture on the left.

It isn't the most professional looking of images (behaviorally speaking), but it isn't egregious enough for me to say anything. I mean, it isn't like he's helicoptering it over his head. I don't think it does too much to detract from the FHF image. This may be where I am wrong, but I assume most people reading this forum can pick out the more professional people from the more amateur people. And this forum is welcome to both.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 5:54 am

There was no mention of the terms Amateur or Professional.

There is no need for a helicopter either or to draw this out but you know what? When I see people treat snakes idiotically, I'm calling it out.

I'm not the only one on here with this view

So in the spirit of the Inclusion you speak of, Captain Jack, and good old Balanced representation, I exercise my right to state that view.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 7:16 am

The spiral of silence theory is an interesting human dynamic, especially in what many sociological studies are seeing as a kind of new field laboratory, for though the theory predates the internet, the format of social media has become a fascinating Petri for such phenomenon.

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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by MCHerper » September 30th, 2015, 9:21 am

Okay, I'm going to say what I believe that Kelly has been trying to say with what I feel to be the support, patience, and dignity that we should be showing our fellow forum members. Hopefully examples like this will help with continuing to establish some positively skewed norms in our communication toward one another.

Brendan, good picture of a cool snake, thank you for sharing! Sorry to say that I don't know the identity of the species, however I look forward to seeing the posts of others who may be able to identify it, so that I may learn more about it in the future.

Just a friendly heads-up (not sure if you were aware), but in your avatar it appears that the snake is being 'tailed'. There's been some discussion that this may lead to injury of the snake, such as vertebral breakage or other internal injury. Just wanted to put it out there so you know.

Happy Herping!

MC

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 10:36 am

Dignity, patience and..well, yeah support haha.. thinking these same things - only towards snakes.

Thank you for sorting me out soundly as well. It was a good reminder to absorb.

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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by MCHerper » September 30th, 2015, 12:14 pm

I'm optimistic, and confident, that you will find a far and away greater than average support for the well-being of snakes from members of this forum, given the time and the opportunity. I'm willing to take the leap of faith that Brendan is one as well.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 12:39 pm

Yeah, I know there is. I think I said that up there. That was kind of the point.

Sooo...anything else? Its actually a pretty simple thing.

Like, obvious even to a child.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 12:54 pm

See, this is why I was hoping, like always when I see sketchy stuff, that SOMEBODY ELSE would maybe say a little something, because you see, the reason for the antics is to SHOW it. So, if the general platform reflects a lack of appreciation for such actions then there's no reason to do it. Because its all for the show.

But of course, it has to turn into a long drawn out thing, that ain't my fault actually. But, there ya go!

And if some people don't care, fine. But alot of people do. More than maybe the people who don't care realize.

So I said something for us guys that don't like to see it. Simple.

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rpecora
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by rpecora » September 30th, 2015, 3:46 pm

MCHerper wrote:Okay, I'm going to say what I believe that Kelly has been trying to say with what I feel to be the support, patience, and dignity that we should be showing our fellow forum members. Hopefully examples like this will help with continuing to establish some positively skewed norms in our communication toward one another.

Brendan, good picture of a cool snake, thank you for sharing! Sorry to say that I don't know the identity of the species, however I look forward to seeing the posts of others who may be able to identify it, so that I may learn more about it in the future.

Just a friendly heads-up (not sure if you were aware), but in your avatar it appears that the snake is being 'tailed'. There's been some discussion that this may lead to injury of the snake, such as vertebral breakage or other internal injury. Just wanted to put it out there so you know.

Happy Herping!

MC
Really Kelly, getting all worked up about tailing a snake. Unbelievable. I couldn't understand your comments since you failed to communicate it properly in the first place and it's all about tailing a snake. Incredible. Why didn't you just send him a PM? All that whilst you have an large Black and White Tegu poised at the juggler in your avatar, how appropriate.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 4:17 pm

How do you know if I'm "all worked up"?

I kind of honey badgered it toward the end I admit it. But I think there is merit in reflecting protocols that bring snakes into the same paradigm as other wildlife, even though they are easier to manipulate.

I don't really know how to respond to the tegu poised at my jugular. Thanks for letting me know, as I thought he was asleep, that naughty guy!

Regarding PM, bringing it to the table instead of a pm was a conscious decision.

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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by MCHerper » September 30th, 2015, 5:47 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:See, this is why I was hoping, like always when I see sketchy stuff, that SOMEBODY ELSE would maybe say a little something, because you see, the reason for the antics is to SHOW it. So, if the general platform reflects a lack of appreciation for such actions then there's no reason to do it. Because its all for the show.

But of course, it has to turn into a long drawn out thing, that ain't my fault actually. But, there ya go!

And if some people don't care, fine. But alot of people do. More than maybe the people who don't care realize.

So I said something for us guys that don't like to see it. Simple.
Actually, Kelly, it was me who said something. I take full responsibility for both the message and its delivery.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » September 30th, 2015, 5:50 pm

I sometimes make mistakes in communication with people. I did with you.

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ebit123
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by ebit123 » October 4th, 2015, 8:23 am

I clicked this to see the Lebanese snake! But found the conversation that followed intriguing. Please exp l aim to me how far down the body woukd be considered "holding by tail"? Hard to tell in the photo, but it looks like he is holding the snake 3/4 down from the head. Is that considered tail? Is my avatar pic considered taiiling? (Context: small, juvenile eastern milk snake, had already been handled with 2 hands [slithering between the hands, and had appeared to be comfortable and relaxed). But if the grasp position in the avatar was not good for the snake, please let me know (and at what part of the body relative to distance from the head a snake shouldn't be held), and I will let my son know for the future.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » October 4th, 2015, 9:05 am

Its not considered tailing, or dangling, if the snake is gripped far enough in so that it is able to pull itself up all the way, of its own strength. Sometimes using its own body to assist righting itself. Which is what people try to avoid - when tailing a venomous snake.

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Noah M
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Noah M » October 5th, 2015, 4:22 am

I agree with Kelly's definition. It is hard to put an exact location on the snake because it varies with species and snake size. Some species are climbers and a bit stronger in that regard, and may be able to do "pull ups" with less of their body supporting them. And snake size (both length and girth) matters too as it is harder for heavier snakes to lift themselves than lighter snakes.

The position of your hands that would be considered tailing for a vine snake are going to be different than for a hognose.
I would also argue that you can't tail really long snakes. If you have a 15' python, and you lift its backside up to your head, more than half of the animal is still supported on the ground. You might make it angry doing that, and it may not be very comfortable for the snake, but I wouldn't call that tailing :lol:

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ebit123
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by ebit123 » October 5th, 2015, 1:37 pm

Ok thanks

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TravisK
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by TravisK » October 6th, 2015, 8:32 am

Well things must be pretty mellow in the herping community if this is the current taboo issue on FHF...

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The Real Snake Man
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by The Real Snake Man » October 6th, 2015, 9:44 am

Oh brother. No need to go all passive aggressive on this guy, just tell him his avatar demonstrates a poor handling technique and apparent desire for... attention? I agree that poor handling needs to be addressed in amateur members, but if you see it first, just say something. Brendan almost certainly just doesn't know any better, and would be glad to change his ways if only someone would tell him. I'm sure he likes snakes as much as the next guy on here. So don't dance around the topic and get on your high horse about how you always have to be the moral compass around here. Just say what you feel needs to be said. I know I often point out bad handling, if not here, then on facebook where I'm a member of lots of incredibly active herping groups. I never thought of it as a burden, and when done properly, I don't look like a fun-spoiling stiff, either. People want to do right by the animals they love.

-Gene

PS - I'm sure the post about how my interpretation of your comments is totally wrong is coming, so I'll tell you how to interpret mine: in all truth, I was more than a bit annoyed when I read your multiple comments that said nothing until the cat was out of the bag.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » October 6th, 2015, 7:05 pm

..But I think there is merit in reflecting protocols that bring snakes into the same paradigm as other wildlife, even though they are easier to manipulate.


As for your hefty post Gene, wow I didn't know I meant that much to you!

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Kelly Mc
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Re: ID Black Snake from Lebanon

Post by Kelly Mc » October 6th, 2015, 8:07 pm

It was never about the person in the avatar. But the activity.

It started a dialogue of focus, which could be of good for snakes.

I don't really care about how it happens, or how I look. It wasn't about people or their feelings about other people.

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