Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

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Hadar
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Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » December 18th, 2015, 11:08 am

It is clear that we currently have more male herpetologists and herp enthusiasts on the forum but out of curiosity I was wondering how many women we do have. If you are a female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts would you please say where you are currently (which chapter you are in or if you live outside of the U.S.) and what got you interested in herpetology? As a female herper myself, I just wonder where you gals are since I infrequently run into female herpers in the field and have been trying to inspire young females to follow their herping dreams despite limited role models.

Cheers, Heather

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by MCHerper » December 18th, 2015, 11:27 am

Male herper here but I do know of at least a few female herp enthusiasts here in NJ. Several of them had been naturalists first by profession and their passion for herping grew from exposure to the herps. I do know one young lady who was a student at the school where I taught who would tell me about her weekend herping adventures. I gave her a copy of the Peterson guide and encouraged her to foster it, she seemed to have a good conservation ethic, I hope that she stuck with it. Another student who I had came from a herping family and she was a field herper as well as being interested in herpetoculture. I'm still in touch with her brother, a phenomenal birder and herper. I may be mentoring a female field herper by request of a friend of mine who is a conservation biologist. Hopefully she and I can connect soon.

Female herpers are out there, and sometimes males make good role models too :thumb:

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by klawnskale » December 18th, 2015, 11:58 am

Here are some I know of:
Me: Los Angeles
DeDe Olson: Fish and Wildlife Biologist stationed in your neck of the woods, Corvalis, Oregon
Natalie McNear: just finished getting her degree at Humboldt State. She is located in NorCal
Kelly Mc: herpetoculturalist from San Francisco
Krisitin Berry : USGS Tortoise Biologist stationed at Box Springs, CA
Erika Nowak: Does research and teaches at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, AZ
Laura Patterson: CA Fish and Wildlife Biologist
Katy Delany: National Park Service Biologiist stationed in Thousand Oaks, CA
Tamara McConnell: Alabama
ZanteeMissKnit: from Massachusetts I believe
Emily Taylor: Teaches and has rattlesnake research program at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
Cristina Jones: AZ Game and Fish Biologist from Phoenix, AZ concentrates on turtles and tortoises
The eccentric but very well informed Tanith Tyrr in North Carolina

This is just a tiny tip of the iceberg. If I think of more, I will add. If you attend Conferences and Symposiums it is very impressive to see the number of young women now out there involved in herpetological research. And since they are involved in such, it is by default that they are "herpers" as well.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » December 18th, 2015, 12:07 pm

MCHerper wrote: Female herpers are out there, and sometimes males make good role models too :thumb:
I agree that male herpers can be good role models and there are a ton out there. It is just nice to know of more females too. Thanks for all you do in mentoring any future herper, male or female.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » December 18th, 2015, 12:14 pm

klawnskale wrote:Here are some I know of:
Me: Los Angeles
DeDe Olson: Fish and Wildlife Biologist stationed in your neck of the woods, Corvalis, Oregon
Natalie McNear: just finished getting her degree at Humboldt State. She is located in NorCal
Kelly Mc: herpetoculturalist from San Francisco
Krisitin Berry : USGS Tortoise Biologist stationed at Box Springs, CA
Erika Nowak: Does research and teaches at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, AZ
Laura Patterson: CA Fish and Wildlife Biologist
Katy Delany: National Park Service Biologiist stationed in Thousand Oaks, CA
Tamara McConnell: Alabama
ZanteeMissKnit: from Massachusetts I believe
Emily Taylor: Teaches and has rattlesnake research program at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
Cristina Jones: AZ Game and Fish Biologist from Phoenix, AZ concentrates on turtles and tortoises
The eccentric but very well informed Tanith Tyrr in North Carolina

This is just a tiny tip of the iceberg. If I think of more, I will add. If you attend Conferences and Symposiums it is very impressive to see the number of young women now out there involved in herpetological research. And since they are involved in such, it is by default that they are "herpers" as well.
Thanks for that great list. I'm friends with Natalie and have heard some of these other names but yet to meet them. The main female herpers I currently know are:
Julie Ray
Robyn Nadolny
Jennie Carr
Sheri Monk
Marisa Ishimatsu
Jamie Cummings
Ashley Tubbs

Not all of which are active on the forum.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by ZantiMissKnit » December 18th, 2015, 1:07 pm

As klawnskale mentioned, I'm in Massachusetts (Boston area), and I've been President of the NE Chapter for the past two years. I caught a few brown snakes and redbacked salamanders as a kid, but the first inkling of the herp bug came when I moved to New Orleans in the early 90s and had green anoles in my front yard and geckos in my bathroom. I only kept a passing interest in it until I met my husband, Mike, and together we started going to Walden Pond together and photographing garter snakes there. We went to Orlando for our honeymoon, and had a blast at Gatorland, and I haven't looked back since.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » December 18th, 2015, 2:49 pm

Lisa Powers (Tennessee) is a biologist and one heck of a herper. I pester her endlessly with questions, and she is so gracious and generous with her knowledge.
I've always loved herps. It started with an utter obsessive fascination with turtles (still love them so much). I thought snakes were hardcore interesting, but I also feared them. As I gained exposure to snakes in the field, of course the fearfulness was replaced with pure wonder and awe.
I'm really grateful to the folks here on FHF/NAFHA who have helped me learn, and who have shared field experiences with me that I will enjoy remembering for the rest of my life.
There are female herpers. More and more of us all the time.
I'm in south Alabama. Herping is pretty fun here in the early spring. Ladies, holler at me if you wanna head this way for a Gulf Coast female herpathon. I'd be happy to host one, and provide floors and couches for sleeping. And southern comfort food.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by simus343 » December 18th, 2015, 2:49 pm

Part of my work has me educating the next generation of scientists and naturalists from Northwest Florida. A lot of the recent help me and my mentor have been getting have been females, and as far as the next generation, a lot more of the girls in 4th and 7th grade are very enthusiastic about snakes and even state that they want to study or work with snakes and turtles when they grow up. The younger males on the other hand, tend to be about the same as I see reflected in my generation. If Northwest Florida is any sort of indicator for the globe (or the United States at least), I'd be inclined to think that women will gradually predominate in the field of herpetology as we move into the future.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by klawnskale » December 18th, 2015, 3:08 pm

Since this topic is about women herpers I thought I would post this idea proposal in this thread:I have been corresponding with a couple of other Lady Herpers on this Message Board regarding the planning and organizing of a "Ladies Only Herperama" Event that will probably be based out of the Terlingua, Texas area. Most likely it will occur in the late Spring or early Summer. We haven't pegged down the dates yet because we would like to work it around suitable schedules for individuals who would like to participate. We would be looking into renting one of Daryl Eby's (also a past FHF poster) cabins in the Terlingua area. If you are interested , you can PM me or Tamara McConnell expressing your interest, when you might be able to do it and any questions you may have. It is only in its infancy stage currently and at this point any feedback from interested individuals to make this event a fun success. When we have more information, then I may post a public topic and poll with regards to times and dates. The point of this event is to encourage more women to explore and develop a further appreciation of herps and their importance in the ecosystems they inhabit and have fun doing it. We encourage daughters to tag along. And guys, as much as I love men and being around you, we are sticking to the Ladies Only concept. No one is stopping you from herping the Terlingua area the same time as we do, but our expeditions and cabins are for girls only. :thumb: ;) ;) MAYBE ; we might let you hang out for a beer, cookout, campfire and yarn spinning... ;)

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » December 18th, 2015, 4:00 pm

SO excited about Terlingua and some great fun herp sisterhood!

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by ebit123 » December 18th, 2015, 4:46 pm

Female here. In RI. I enjoyed catching toads as a kid and had pet newts, have always been into viewing wildlife, but didn't get into herping until my son got into it a couple years ago. Mostly interested in snakes and lizards, though of course no chance in seeing lizards where I live. I used to not care for snakes. I did not dislike or hate them...I understood their value, but I'd get freaked out by them. You know when you're hiking or walking across a field and it just startless you out of nowhere. Anyway, I have come to really appreciate them and enjoy looking for them. I find herping really trains your eye, in terms of having to look very closely among leaves, brush, etc, in order to spot them.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by mfb » December 18th, 2015, 5:29 pm

Lot of great responses already about women helpers on this forum.

Just a couple suggestions for finding contacts off the forum. I see you are at o s u. You may want to look up Tiff Garcia and some of her students. Twitter has many active and highly successful women herpetologists. Look up Katy Greenwald's Twitter account and go from there.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » December 18th, 2015, 7:46 pm

mfb wrote:Just a couple suggestions for finding contacts off the forum. I see you are at o s u. You may want to look up Tiff Garcia and some of her students. Twitter has many active and highly successful women herpetologists. Look up Katy Greenwald's Twitter account and go from there.
Thanks Michael! I actually work very closely with Tiff and have had a couple of her students come to my 4-H club meetings to talk to the members about their projects. I haven't been out herping with Tiff yet but I hope to do so soon.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » December 18th, 2015, 7:49 pm

klawnskale wrote:Since this topic is about women herpers I thought I would post this idea proposal in this thread:I have been corresponding with a couple of other Lady Herpers on this Message Board regarding the planning and organizing of a "Ladies Only Herperama" Event that will probably be based out of the Terlingua, Texas area. Most likely it will occur in the late Spring or early Summer. We haven't pegged down the dates yet because we would like to work it around suitable schedules for individuals who would like to participate. We would be looking into renting one of Daryl Eby's (also a past FHF poster) cabins in the Terlingua area. If you are interested , you can PM me or Tamara McConnell expressing your interest, when you might be able to do it and any questions you may have.
We have a small group that was thinking something along the same lines, but in Panama over the summer. Some life changes have come up for me so I'm hoping to move the time frame, still working out details.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by semasko » December 19th, 2015, 8:42 am

Dr. Jayme Waldron teaches at Marshall University in WV. She's the best.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » December 20th, 2015, 8:49 am

There's also Kelly Puckett. I haven't seen her on here in a while, but she's a herper and an awesome artist. She lives in one of the Carolinas. I'll fb msg her about the gals' herp trip when we get plans a little more firmed up.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by chris_mcmartin » December 21st, 2015, 6:58 am

klawnskale wrote:Since this topic is about women herpers I thought I would post this idea proposal in this thread:I have been corresponding with a couple of other Lady Herpers on this Message Board regarding the planning and organizing of a "Ladies Only Herperama" Event that will probably be based out of the Terlingua, Texas area. Most likely it will occur in the late Spring or early Summer. We haven't pegged down the dates yet because we would like to work it around suitable schedules for individuals who would like to participate.
Just don't plan it the first weekend in June--that's Snake Days in Sanderson TX, and lots of ladies attend that event! :thumb:

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Ameron » December 21st, 2015, 11:36 am

I was excited to see your post. Great job! :)

You make some good points, and I'm delighted to see more female participation in almost every social endeavor. (Biased, I personally believe that women make better managers & leaders than men in *many* social situations, especially for long-term decisions affecting entire communities.)

I've often lamented at the lack of other Herping enthusiasts in my area of the Pacific Northwest. I've met with a couple of visiting Herpers, but only a couple of times. My attempts to start a local Reptiles club have been unsuccessful so far. I continue to think of new ideas for generating interest - especially across age & gender boundaries.

I know of an excellent resource in your area, one of the Top Experts on Rubber Boas. If you wish a referral, please reply.

Also, if you ever visit my area in warm weather, or would enjoy hosting a visitor to your area for an afternoon, please let me know. I'd be delighted to meet and chat about so many Herp things.

Seeing my naturalistic setups of my 55-gallon & 100-gallon vivarium "biomes" alone is worth the trip!

Don in Vancouver, WA
Network Engineer (Explorer, Discoverer, Herpetologist, Naturalist, Writer)

1.0 Lampropeltis getula splendida
1.0 Terrapene carolina carolina
1.0 Terrapene carolina triangus
0.1 Lichurana trivirgata trivirgata
0.1 Boa dumerli (reclassified in 2015 from Acrantophis dumerili)

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by klawnskale » December 21st, 2015, 2:36 pm

chris_mcmartin wrote:
klawnskale wrote:Since this topic is about women herpers I thought I would post this idea proposal in this thread:I have been corresponding with a couple of other Lady Herpers on this Message Board regarding the planning and organizing of a "Ladies Only Herperama" Event that will probably be based out of the Terlingua, Texas area. Most likely it will occur in the late Spring or early Summer. We haven't pegged down the dates yet because we would like to work it around suitable schedules for individuals who would like to participate.
Just don't plan it the first weekend in June--that's Snake Days in Sanderson TX, and lots of ladies attend that event! :thumb:
Tamara and I discussed "Snake Days" as a possibility but its dates overlapped with her last week of teaching school so we decided to do an event of our own formulation instead.
Ameron: Who wouldn't know about Richard Hoyer and his work here on the FHF?

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » December 21st, 2015, 3:22 pm

Once when I was younger I went into a bar. The pool tables were taken so I wrote my name on the board and thought I would pass the time shooting darts until it was my turn.

As I walked with the darts in my hand a few guys kind of surrounded me, telling me about darts, explaining the bulls eye, and standing like this, putting their elbow like that.

But I already knew how to play darts. And if any of the demonstrating gentlemen would have had an interesting tip to improve my dart throwing I couldn't have heard it as they were so enamored with their own voices I couldn't hear a thing.

Except I do remember Peter Gabriel was playing.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by klawnskale » December 21st, 2015, 5:01 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:Once when I was younger I went into a bar. The pool tables were taken so I wrote my name on the board and thought I would pass the time shooting darts until it was my turn.

As I walked with the darts in my hand a few guys kind of surrounded me, telling me about darts, explaining the bulls eye, and standing like this, putting their elbow like that.

But I already knew how to play darts. And if any of the demonstrating gentlemen would have had an interesting tip to improve my dart throwing I couldn't have heard it as they were so enamored with their own voices I couldn't hear a thing.

Except I do remember Peter Gabriel was playing.
The shoe has been on the other foot with me a couple of times. While riding my bicycle in Central Park In New York City I came upon a very handsome young man walking his bicycle along the side of the road wearing cleated cycling shoes (Not at all great for walking). It was obviously apparent he had a flat tire and didn't know how to fix it. I stopped alongside him and told him I would be happy to fix his flat. He had no spare tube,pump,patch kit or tools (which I am always equipped with). He was laughing and stated"Just wait 'til I get back home and tell my girlfriend that a lady helped to fix my flat tire". I just stated matter of factly that it is an essential skill to know if you're going to ride a bike. It took me all of 15 minutes. He paid me for the spare tube which I refused at first, but he insisted so I took the money. I was just practicing an accepted form of good samaritan behavior that most serious cyclists feel obligated to help their fellow cyclists if they are in need of aide during their training or travels.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » December 21st, 2015, 6:38 pm

Sometimes its not so much about a shoe on another foot, but constantly walking through the same old assumption of who's wearing them.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » December 21st, 2015, 8:03 pm

If Snake Days works for most of the gals here, then go ahead and do Snake Days. I can catch up with y'all later, if need be. Do whatever works for the greater good for the most herp ladies.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by klawnskale » December 22nd, 2015, 7:33 am

Tamara D. McConnell wrote:If Snake Days works for most of the gals here, then go ahead and do Snake Days. I can catch up with y'all later, if need be. Do whatever works for the greater good for the most herp ladies.
Tamara:
I think we should make this Ladies Trip its own independent entity. Consider it an experiment and an inaugural event to perhaps starting a new tradition.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) » December 22nd, 2015, 8:00 pm

Can someone pin/sticky this thread? Would be great if newcomers saw this right when they enter.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » December 23rd, 2015, 12:18 pm


Tamara:
I think we should make this Ladies Trip its own independent entity. Consider it an experiment and an inaugural event to perhaps starting a new tradition.
Ok. I like that.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Biker Dave » January 22nd, 2016, 11:55 am

There are even more on Facebook.....

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » January 22nd, 2016, 6:24 pm

There's lots of awesome herp ladies. I've met a bunch on fb. I kinda feel like if they are real serious, they will find their way here. Biker Dave, can you direct the ones you know over to here so we can include them?

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » February 3rd, 2016, 12:13 pm

Any female herpers interested in getting to know each other a little better, we are going to have a girls trip in June. Check out this post, http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... 01#p254201, to vote for which weekend works best for you. If the trip goes well I am hoping to organize another one in Panama later on.

Cheers, Heather

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by mfb » February 25th, 2016, 5:12 am

People may also be interested in connecting through the HERpers hashtag on twitter that started yesterday:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/HERpers?src=hash

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » February 26th, 2016, 2:28 pm

I'm out of the Terlingua wonderfulness. Unexpected veterinary bills have consumed my travel budget for this year. So sorry. Will be eagerly awaiting posts about the event.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by regalringneck » March 2nd, 2016, 6:29 pm

.. sometymes it takes a sympathetic xy to ' splain it for you x squareds .. so please indulge me ...
... while we are all human, there really are differences in the way we process " reality" w/ the occasional exceptions of course ... like perhaps my syster mac ... biology is never perfect like physics ... thats why we use statistics to interpret our results ... rather than pure calculus ...
So heres your fundamental dilemma ; in the modern urban world you have the policia to defend you & your offspring, & the most cerebral amongst you have rapidly adapted to that... however... in the recent past, where you're deepest psyches & behavior were largely selected for (or against) ... you had to choose for survival, a mate that would provide high quality protein ( essential for homonid brain development) or risk, especially lone female homonids w/ offspring... becoming prey. The anthropological record is clear; we are one of the few true cannabalistic mammals ... Hence the old adage better the devil you know .. than the one you don't. & that my dears is why so few of you innately do not want to camp alone, or w/ only other females far from the structures of civilization ... & especially when things go "bump" in the night. & to those, like my own daughter ( since she wouldnt tolerate my firearms nor much of my hand to hand nor stick training) i say be smart & play it safe, ...but to those females that defy these general truths ... im all about you doing it, risk mngmt is a huge part of attaining the rareified life, catching air under the glider ... & soaring like an eagle & eagles come in both sexes ... & those eagles are the sexiest women of all ... ah yes the paradox of it all ... : }

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by MCHerper » March 3rd, 2016, 8:32 am

Image

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 3rd, 2016, 2:02 pm

If a person doesn't understand what another person is saying, asking for further explanation is what people do in the real world.

Not being able to comprehend unconventional vigor and dimension in expression is a handicap, IMO.



I do believe males and females have fundamental differences. And I understood Johns post.

They did a social experiment I think, in the 60s, where they monitored children playing with toys of preference. Girl children who were Tomboys, gravitated to the same toys as boys, only played differently with them to greater or lesser extent. Boys tended toward make believe explosions and battle dramas, whereas Tomboys constructed more adventure stories and rescue events. But both the girls and boys liked building things.

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Hadar
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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » March 3rd, 2016, 4:40 pm

regalringneck wrote:.. sometymes it takes a sympathetic xy to ' splain it for you x squareds .. so please indulge me ...
... while we are all human, there really are differences in the way we process " reality" w/ the occasional exceptions of course ... like perhaps my syster mac ... biology is never perfect like physics ... thats why we use statistics to interpret our results ... rather than pure calculus ...
So heres your fundamental dilemma ; in the modern urban world you have the policia to defend you & your offspring, & the most cerebral amongst you have rapidly adapted to that... however... in the recent past, where you're deepest psyches & behavior were largely selected for (or against) ... you had to choose for survival, a mate that would provide high quality protein ( essential for homonid brain development) or risk, especially lone female homonids w/ offspring... becoming prey. The anthropological record is clear; we are one of the few true cannabalistic mammals ... Hence the old adage better the devil you know .. than the one you don't. & that my dears is why so few of you innatel/'y do not want to camp alone, or w/ only other females far from the structures of civilization ... & especially when things go "bump" in the night. & to those, like my own daughter ( since she wouldnt tolerate my firearms nor much of my hand to hand nor stick training) i say be smart & play it safe, ...but to those females that defy these general truths ... im all about you doing it, risk mngmt is a huge part of attaining the rareified life, catching air under the glider ... & soaring like an eagle & eagles come in both sexes ... & those eagles are the sexiest women of all ... ah yes the paradox of it all ... : }
You say that the anthropological record is clear but what you are referring to is actually paleoanthropology which is more of piecing together artifacts to guess what occurred in the past. In doing so, "facts" are subjected to both explicit and implicit biases. I would argue that your position too is biased by your own lens from which you view the world around you. We as humans too quickly accept hypotheses and theories as truths if they aligns with our own beliefs. The concept of women needing men to hunt for them and protect them is speculation with theoretical and evidentiary shortcomings. I'm not the only one to think this, http://www.paleoanthro.org/static/journ ... 080091.pdf.

One of the reason why I started this post in the first place was because too often I was running into male herpers with the mentality that women are delicate beings, moody, difficult, sex objects, or just distracting. I'm not going to try to change the mind of thousands of men but I would enjoy herping with other serious herpers who are focused on being outside, exploring nature, and admiring wildlife rather than judge me. There are just as many amazing male herpers out there as there are ones I would rather avoid but the point of this post was to reach out to the women so we would know we aren't alone and possibly organize a trip so we can meet each other in person. This post is not intended to exclude men but to create a positive environment for women.

As for camping alone far from civilization, I feel a hundred times safer alone in the woods, desert, mountains, etc than around humans. We are the most dangerous and destructive animal on the face of Earth. Like your daughter, I do not like firearms but I do know how to use them. I prefer carrying a metal palm stick to stab and disable attackers. For those who have herped with me before, they know I keep this on me at all times.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Hadar » March 3rd, 2016, 5:26 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:If a person doesn't understand what another person is saying, asking for further explanation is what people do in the real world.

Not being able to comprehend unconventional vigor and dimension in expression is a handicap, IMO.



I do believe males and females have fundamental differences. And I understood Johns post.

They did a social experiment I think, in the 60s, where they monitored children playing with toys of preference. Girl children who were Tomboys, gravitated to the same toys as boys, only played differently with them to greater or lesser extent. Boys tended toward make believe explosions and battle dramas, whereas Tomboys constructed more adventure stories and rescue events. But both the girls and boys liked building things.
Kelly,

I know you aren't trying to be disrespectful but the term tomboy is offensive. It first was used in 1553 to describe a rude boy and in twenty years it evolved to mean an immodest woman. Presently many people still view it as a term for women expressing masculine traits but it creates an archetype and suppresses gender fluidity. Sex should not determine how people are perceived or treated. We are all humans and should be treated as such, regardless of sexuality or gender.

There have been many play studies conducted. Would you provide the source or citation for the study you are referring to? The National Associate for the Education of Young Children reported that toys traditionally viewed as male oriented (e.g. construction toys and toy vehicles) elicited the highest quality play among girls. They suggest setting aside previous conceptions about what inspires male and female play and instead to objectively observe toy effects to ensure children equally benefit from play materials. As a child I grew up playing with play-doh, my pets, science and spy kits, and whatever I found outside. I was raised by parents in the mental health field so they did the best they could not to damage my sister and I. Luckily for me they supported my love of science and bought me my first microscope at the age of 5. Growing up in an university town we had many opportunities like getting to stick our hands into fistulated cow and pull out digested food, or let hissing cockroaches running up and down our arms at the insect fear festival, or see human cadavers at the medical lab and learn what a human looks like with no organs. If it wasn't for my family's support and my community I wouldn't have gotten to assist in a root canal on a Siberian tiger while still in high school, or participated in a castration competition, or discover how to escape quicksand in New Zealand, or learn to swim in the Amazon River, or countless other experiences that have gotten me to where I am now. What I'm saying is, it can be detrimental to box children into roles and tell them what they can or cannot do or what society's expectation of them is. I would think in a community like this one (field herpetologists) and in the 21st century we could look past that.

Cheers, Heather

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 3rd, 2016, 6:04 pm

Well, I'm kind of a blend of a rude boy, and an immodest woman, especially as a youth so I guess it fits me, at least.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 3rd, 2016, 7:59 pm

Before commenting on the political incorrectness of my statement, know that my "gender fluidity" is mine, and mine only to describe. Its not and has never been theoretical ever since my own Tomboyhood, which required a painful bravery a child shouldn't be required to have.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by regalringneck » March 4th, 2016, 2:26 am

really excellent intelligent responses above, Hadar you as you grow older will increasingly appreciate what amazing parents & mentors you've been so fortunate to have. You are a rare bird indeed, most of us had to gain what few insights we have into our amazing psyches, thru the school of hard knocks, tho physiology & psychology helped me enormously, along w/ some therapy :p I have to type in short fairly absolutist statements, otherwise threads become a volume + im limited to 2 finger hunting & pecking .... so believe me, i understand there's much more to it, & differing schools of thought. Still, i've observed 1st hand how even babies are treated differently based on sex, it starts w/ colors/toys even speech patterns, its sick imho .. as theyre just juvenile homonids = children till puberty thru my natural lens, but our society does not allow this & i've learned alas i cannot change the society, so ive learned to adapt, but will not lie for it. Kelly & others who are dancing to a different internal drummer have a very difficult "row to hoe" in such a rigid world view, i admire them (& elements of myself) that refuse to accept the "normal" expectations unless & until the poe poe arrive, & then just for a few minutes :p
Thank ittoi & helios tho, we, the progressives/educated/& enlightened ... are slowly becoming more accepted for our various shades of grey that we live & represent.
My point was simply to point out the evolutionary reasons for the cultural norm; whereby most women do not camp alone, nor soley in the company of other women, it doesnt make them cowards nor fools, & i agree w/ you, its perfectly safe in most of america. Around parts perhaps much the world & certainly
in the sierras of mexico, i think you'd be foolhardy. You & your sisters "owe" your beautiful parents the joy of watching you grow even wiser & one day hopefully/possibly presenting them w/ their 1st grandbaby.
Like Kelly, "tomboy" was a badge of honor when i was a lad, my best friends were often such; playing ball, wrestling in the grass, catching critters, going fishing, etc dang i h8te to hear its fallen into disrepute : {
I thank you both for not taking my comment negatively, rocc on & peace out / rxr

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by MCHerper » March 4th, 2016, 5:08 am

Kelly Mc wrote: Not being able to comprehend unconventional vigor and dimension in expression is a handicap, IMO.
What about the ability to comprehend good-natured humor and lightheartedness?

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 4th, 2016, 5:30 am

Being able to tell what's funny, helps with that.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by MCHerper » March 4th, 2016, 6:08 am

The meme wasn't meant as a point-and-laugh at RegalRingneck's post, the intent was akin to a group of people in a face-to-face discussion with someone saying something with some substance and depth, a moment of contemplation, and another person chiming in with "potato". I wouldn't want this forum to be a humorless environment without a bit of occasional levity. Laughter builds community at least as much as in-depth discussion. At least I hope that it still does.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by regalringneck » March 4th, 2016, 9:30 am

... yoe MC, i didnt see any humour their either , looks pretty threatening & "in yoe face" ... ...so id recommend u delete it & if u'r short on funny funnys ... pm me your email, & i'll send you a handful of dandies / oxo ... :?

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 4th, 2016, 11:54 am

All that soft pedaling about humor, lemme see.. sniff sniff. Nope. That meme was applied in poor spirit.

If it wasn't, you pecked around and picked the wrong one for your "purpose".

Real men don't use memes. Heavens to Hillary how un PC is THAT!

I do what I want - Its the Tomboy Way :lol:

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by MCHerper » March 4th, 2016, 12:07 pm

regalringneck wrote:... yoe MC, i didnt see any humour their either , looks pretty threatening & "in yoe face" ... ...so id recommend u delete it & if u'r short on funny funnys ... pm me your email, & i'll send you a handful of dandies / oxo ... :?
Now that I know that it wasn't received well by you then I won't in good conscience defend it as well-intentioned humor, as that would undermine your feelings on it. I'll keep it in mind in the future. Thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 4th, 2016, 5:28 pm

Here is the unspoken vibe of how the Tomboy thing has always worked, and still does despite a luxury of analytical protestation..

For the purposes of simplicity - I will use the term Tomboy, because quite frankly I find its contention as a slur nebulous at best.

The way it goes is, its A-OK to be a Tomboy, as long as it isn't a sign that the girl child in question is going to grow up to be a Lesbian. Especially a Butchy one. Which has pretty much been the Sole Concern of adults in regards to Tomboys.

They will say "She'll grow out of it - Don't Worry.." And they think its cute - As long as they can reassure themselves Its A Phase.

And if that girl child does not grow up to be gay - but still "Tomboyish" or should i say, does not align her activities or personality with gender expected social constructs - you better believe she's learned to drop visual and other hints along the way to cue others that yeah, Im diverse but IM NOT ONE OF THOSE.

So you see, some of us have had harder dodgeballs to duck, when it comes to a 400+ year old word, that my ilk has taken for themselves and the bold misfits and lone scouts that were Us, as children.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by regalringneck » March 4th, 2016, 6:54 pm

Thankyou MC for the sensitivity, thats rare around here, & i for 1 prolly shouldnt type too much :p Mac, spot on, & i would suggest in the modern urban world & considering the average "dude" out there ... a woman probably has a higher liklihood of a happy & productive life as a lesbian than the typical twisted hetero, 2 strangers meet (meat) in lust & try to become soulm8tes saga we see so much of ... all evolution "cares about", is that at some pt. she reproduces, it doesn't care who she bonds with. & neither should we.
In most primitive homonid cultures & in our closest relatives, the chimps & bonos, bisexuality is purportedly the norm.

ying & yang, or fallopian tubes : }

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by chrish » March 4th, 2016, 6:55 pm

Wow. For a minute I thought an old post had been bumped up to the top. But then I realized it wasn't an old post from the 1940s after all. It just had comments that sounded like they had been written then.

Sexism, even when that poorly expressed and "supported" with irrational pseudoscientific logic is still sexism. Even if you REALLY believe it.

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by regalringneck » March 4th, 2016, 7:19 pm

.. confidential to CH ... psstt get a clue; biology is all about sex ... even past tense sex = sexism t hee ...

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Re: Female herpetologists or herp enthusiasts

Post by Kelly Mc » March 4th, 2016, 7:44 pm

chrish wrote:Wow. For a minute I thought an old post had been bumped up to the top. But then I realized it wasn't an old post from the 1940s after all. It just had comments that sounded like they had been written then.

Sexism, even when that poorly expressed and "supported" with irrational pseudoscientific logic is still sexism. Even if you REALLY believe it.

Are you referring to that which is tongue in cheek, or, something else?

Please, feel free to be specific. I'm eager to be educated by you, about sexism.

I'm all ears.

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