Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojave

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klawnskale
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Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojave

Post by klawnskale » February 12th, 2016, 7:56 am

These areas have been designated as ones of critical concern and are receiving National Monument status today in Palm Springs at a reception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

HerpMan ATL
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by HerpMan ATL » February 12th, 2016, 4:32 pm

klawnskale wrote:These areas have been designated as ones of critical concern and are receiving National Monument status today in Palm Springs at a reception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

YES!
A little excerpt for people who dont like to click links...
President Obama has set aside more of America’s lands and waters for conservation protection than any of his predecessors, and he is preparing to do even more before he leaves office next year. The result may be one of the most expansive environmental and historic-preservation legacies in presidential history.

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jonathan
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by jonathan » February 14th, 2016, 12:28 am

Can someone do a quick run-down of what this actually does to the land versus the status the land had before?

daniel
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by daniel » February 14th, 2016, 3:02 am

Can someone do a quick run-down of what this actually does to the land versus the status the land had before?
I am not an expert on these things and hopefully someone more knowledgeable (Jimi?) will give their input. From what I gather though, activities such as mining, grazing, OHV use, and various development, which can potentially occur on public lands, will now be prohibited under the new national monument designation. Other recreational activities (hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, etc.) are permitted.

Again, hopefully someone else more knowledgeable will add to/correct this information.

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klawnskale
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by klawnskale » February 14th, 2016, 7:55 am

You pretty much covered it. It was actually the concerns by local residents in the area combined with environmental groups who petitioned Diane Feinstein who got this ball rolling a couple of years ago. The main issue was the prospect of alternative energy projects taking away too much habitat. There were a couple of projects in the works trying to get themselves established and basically the people were tired of seeing the desert disappearing to commercialization.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by daniel » February 14th, 2016, 8:27 am

Thank you for the additional info Hannah. I had read somewhere that much of the land had already been purchased by private groups who then donated it to the BLM with the expectation that it would eventually be given the national monument designation.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by jonathan » February 14th, 2016, 8:40 pm

daniel wrote:I am not an expert on these things and hopefully someone more knowledgeable (Jimi?) will give their input. From what I gather though, activities such as mining, grazing, OHV use, and various development, which can potentially occur on public lands, will now be prohibited under the new national monument designation. Other recreational activities (hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, etc.) are permitted.

Again, hopefully someone else more knowledgeable will add to/correct this information.
klawnskale wrote:You pretty much covered it. It was actually the concerns by local residents in the area combined with environmental groups who petitioned Diane Feinstein who got this ball rolling a couple of years ago. The main issue was the prospect of alternative energy projects taking away too much habitat. There were a couple of projects in the works trying to get themselves established and basically the people were tired of seeing the desert disappearing to commercialization.

Thank you both. That sounds like the designation makes the land MORE public, not less.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by Jimi » February 17th, 2016, 1:06 pm

As we all found out here on a ~ recent thread, it's most helpful to just look up the "organic legalese" establishing an installation or unit: park, monument, forest, etc, or agency: NPS, BLM, USFS, etc.

So for example the Mojave Trails National Monument was created by the President under the Congressional authority of the "Antiquities Act". Here's the text of the Presidential Proclamation:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... l-monument

a few relevant snippets:
The establishment of the monument is subject to valid existing rights.
The Secretary of the Interior (Secretary) shall manage the monument through the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) as a unit of the National Landscape Conservation System, pursuant to applicable legal authorities, to protect the objects identified above.
NLCS is BLM's most-conservative or -restrictive land-use designation, other than jurisdictional wilderness. Importantly though, NLCS units get more "management" than wilderness units embedded within normal BLM Field Offices - they get more signage, weed spraying, patrols, etc. Basically, NLCS units are withdrawn from multiple-use designation and turned over to more "single-purpose" uses - as described below:
WHEREAS, it is in the public interest to preserve the objects of scientific and historic interest on the Mojave Trails lands;

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by the authority vested in me by section 320301 of title 54, United States Code, hereby proclaim the objects identified above that are situated upon lands and interests in lands owned or controlled by the Federal Government to be the Mojave Trails National Monument (monument) and, for the purpose of protecting those objects, reserve as part thereof all lands and interests in lands owned or controlled by the Federal Government within the boundaries described on the accompanying map, which is attached to and forms a part of this proclamation. These reserved Federal lands and interests in lands encompass approximately 1.6 million acres. The boundaries described on the accompanying map are confined to the smallest area compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected.
So, there's your "more single-purpose uses" - preserving (not hauling off in a truck...) objects of scientific and historical interest. No more romp and stomp. The "objects" are described in the proclamation - WW2 training camps, Route 66 ghost towns, aboriginal relics and sacred sites, springs & groundwater, plants and wildlife, etc.
All Federal lands and interests in lands within the boundaries of the monument are hereby appropriated and withdrawn from all forms of entry, location, selection, sale, or other disposition under the public land laws, from location, entry, and patent under the mining laws, and from disposition under all laws relating to mineral and geothermal leasing, other than by exchange that furthers the protective purposes of the monument or disposal for the limited purpose of providing materials for repairing or maintaining roads and bridges within the monument consistent with care and management of the objects identified above.
I'm sure you guys can locate the other 2 Proclamations.

cheers

simus343
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by simus343 » February 17th, 2016, 1:43 pm

Basically to keep it simple.

No farms.
No mines.
No Las Vegas mk. 2.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by hellihooks » February 17th, 2016, 2:19 pm

Thx Jimi... hopefully this stops them from draining the Cadiz aquifer for LA's water needs.

So... within existing rights??? we can herp there?

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regalringneck
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by regalringneck » February 18th, 2016, 5:44 am

Changing the BLM"preserve" to NPS "monument" status will normally effect recreationists as much or more than commercial interests, not only will patrol intensity increase ( see http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6d698b0e ... rk-rangers ), but traditional uses such as hunting (herping) using existing trails & 2-tracks, utilizing non- hwy registerable vehicles such as quads, all can expect to be diminished oe eliminated.
Wildlife water developments too will likely be removed, so bighorns & desert mule deer populations ( thus pumas too) will be reduced or eliminated, depending on the distribution (if any) of "natural waters".
Like most things federal ; it'll wind up a mixed bag & generally a bureaucratic mess :p

edit; one thing the feds did get exactly right tho, was the handling of the nutcase mor-on "ranchers" in nw az & oregon, lately w/ a minimum loss of life ... touche, for a job well done.

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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by Bryan Hamilton » February 18th, 2016, 11:42 am

These monuments are going to remain managed by the Bureau of Land Management not the National Park Service. BLM management of national monuments created by executive order has been a trend since Clinton declared Escalante a National Monument in Utah.

simus343, what does "no Las Vegas mk. 2" mean?

simus343
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by simus343 » February 18th, 2016, 12:56 pm

Bryan Hamilton wrote:These monuments are going to remain managed by the Bureau of Land Management not the National Park Service. BLM management of national monuments created by executive order has been a trend since Clinton declared Escalante a National Monument in Utah.

simus343, what does "no Las Vegas mk. 2" mean?
Not blazed through and turned into a city over time as a few buildings pop up and then more around them and so on until it is all metal and concrete.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by Jimi » February 18th, 2016, 1:28 pm

These monuments are going to remain managed by the Bureau of Land Management not the National Park Service. BLM management of national monuments created by executive order has been a trend since Clinton declared Escalante a National Monument in Utah.
Right, as noted in the proc quote BLM will retain management responsibility for these lands. I have no concerns for loss of recreational use of the types I enjoy. If you like breaking the rules and driving "truly off-road" (as in, leaving the set of roads and tracks identified as "open" in their Travel Management Plan) then you're going to have issues due to increased enforcement of existing rules. The new land management plan required by the proclamation will offer stakeholders opportunities to provide input and feedback on whatever the new rules will be. One gets the impression that there was considerable groundwork already in the area, to garner stakeholder support in advance of monument designation.

There's hardly any open livestock allotments left in the CA Mojave (mostly due to tortoise listing in the early 90's), so I can't say what will happen to any remaining troughs and pipes there. I seriously doubt the guzzlers will be impacted - look at the language of the proclamation - "anything that the state is in charge of, will remain so".

As far as "Clinton's Folly" (as styled by some in Utah) we haven't had any wildlife water improvements, nor any livestock watering improvements, removed from GSENM as far as I know. Simply not an issue. Some of our very best bighorn sheep hunting units are on the GSENM. Some of those same hunted units are doing so well, population-wise, that we use them as source populations for newly-restored populations elsewhere. Before the early 70's there weren't even any sheep left there. BLM monument designation has not impacted wildlife opportunities or administration.

So as a political matter, some folks are agitated. As a technical matter, this isn't particularly exciting. They'll get maybe a few more staff and a new plan, and the area won't experience the same industrialization as much of the remaining multiple-use tracts of the Mojave. Personally, I think it's just fine. I don't particularly condone the types and rate of change I see as I drive through the desert, I'm glad we as a country can agree (by our established, imperfect system) to take our foot off the gas once in a while.

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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by regalringneck » February 18th, 2016, 6:32 pm

Thnx Jimi & Bryan 4 your inputs, some of the acronyms otta be spelled out once .. but im guess'n great basin or grand escalante staircase ??
.. but you lads otta admit there is & has been a loss of wildlife waters, note our experience @ joshua tree, the e mojave, cabeza ... & elsewhere ... the problem w/ "feds" is that they move like a virus ; from florida to alaska, puerto rico to calyfo4-nya ... they barely achieve competency & then they're gone or worse .... 2 promote ... tho rarely the biologists... but always the vocally agile wildernutts or real estate folks .... & we locals w/ long term resumes ... w/ real expertise ... honed to a razors edge via time & thus experience .... are lucky just to get input into the constantly morphing "plans" ... we can do better ... we must. thnx helios & iitoi ... mother nature is a patient & wise woman ...

Our crown jewels are best mng'd w/ NPS ... no doubt ... but for the "normal", i prefer mngmt via BLM & USFS ... it really does matter folks ... you might want to pay attention ...

edit; i wish our european comrades would txt ... in specifics ... how these land mngmt policies occurred there ... as we americans seem to always be behind europe by 10-20 years ... tho i understand there is little "public land" never mind distinctions of such in europe : {

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klawnskale
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Re: Obama To Sign Bill Today To Protect More Areas Of Mojav

Post by klawnskale » February 20th, 2016, 8:21 am

regalringneck wrote:
edit; i wish our european comrades would txt ... in specifics ... how these land mngmt policies occurred there ... as we americans seem to always be behind europe by 10-20 years ... tho i understand there is little "public land" never mind distinctions of such in europe : {
When I temporarily worked for the NPS over the summer I interfaced with many tourists from Europe; primarily Germans, Brits, Austrians, Swiss, French and Italians. They have a unique fascination for the American deserts of our Southwest. A comment that one Italian gentleman made during the course of our conversation was that there really is no agency in Europe comparable to the U.S. National Park Service. It appears that there seems to be a European admiration for how it has functioned successfully in helping to protect and conserve our lands. Many of the visiting European parents encouraged their children to participate in the Junior Rangers Program to learn the history and natural history of each park. It was actually kind of cool and flattering :)
Ken Burn's cinematic pastiche on the NPS is a wonderful tribute to the history and progress of this agency. If you haven't seen it, I encourage all to to give it a gander.

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