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Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains...

Posted: April 6th, 2016, 7:38 pm
by MSD
This article was posted a bit ago. Decker Canyon is right on the Ventura County/Los Angeles County line, and runs right through the middle of the Santa Monica Mountains National Park.

https://www.nps.gov/samo/blogs/Plywood- ... Nature.htm

I did not realize that you couldn't board, but then again, I have not been in that area in a while.

Just thought I'd share...

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 5:14 am
by Fundad
:lol: Yeah I talked to a ranger a few years ago. He seemed to think, "Poaching" was rampant in the park. :roll:


I know this spot, and I seriously doubt Gopher Snakes, Kingsnakes, and Helleri are being shipped out to sell, and even furthermore that the USFWS would bother with a investigation for such species. But hey I have been wrong before.
When I explained I doubt any poaching was going on, he looked at me like I was a criminal. Sigh.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 5:57 am
by Calfirecap
I agree with you Brian, this just doesn't sound like poaching. My guess is this was an illegal recreational board line. If someone is setting boards for poaching these species in a National Park and gets caught, well, I gets that's just 'Natural Selection'.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 8:50 am
by Zach_Lim
Oh wow.

"...check them on a hot day and there's a good chance you'll find snakes."

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 9:31 am
by SurfinHerp
Zach - I always check my boards at 2 PM on the hottest days, 'specially in August

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 10:30 am
by Fieldnotes
Pretty sure that people are not suppose to construct board lines anywhere, except on their own or permitted properties. Otherwise, it might constitute littering.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 10:44 am
by Zach_Lim
Fieldnotes wrote:Pretty sure that people are not suppose to construct board lines anywhere, except on their own or permitted properties. Otherwise, it might constitute littering.
This is true. Without permission from parks or open spaces, it is illegal dumping and littering. That's why I don't get it when people get upset if the boards are flipped , cleaned up, or removed.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 10:45 am
by Brian Hubbs
It's a spot where zonata have been found. I've only been there once, and I don't know who set it up, but a few herpers know about it. Damn, I knew I should have gone there last month when I was in the area to record species for the database....sometimes park rangers are a little too paranoid. The only thing anyone would collect from that spot is the zonata, and they are not frequently found there. :roll: :x

Zach, illegal or not, the boards provide nice study sites and hurt nothing, even if people occasionally collect the animals. There are plenty of herps in that area that don't have boards to thermoregulate under.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 11:30 am
by Zach_Lim
Brian Hubbs wrote:It's a spot where zonata have been found. I've only been there once, and I don't know who set it up, but a few herpers know about it. Damn, I knew I should have gone there last month when I was in the area to record species for the database....sometimes park rangers are a little too paranoid. The only thing anyone would collect from that spot is the zonata, and they are not frequently found there. :roll: :x

Zach, illegal or not, the boards provide nice study sites and hurt nothing, even if people occasionally collect the animals. There are plenty of herps in that area that don't have boards to thermoregulate under.
That is true! I agree completely with that.

Edit: Random, but have you noticed a discrepancy between boards vs carpet in regards to snakes? I would imagine carpet holds more moisture and those you'd get smaller, fossorial species?

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 11:46 am
by Brian Hubbs
That was explained in detail in my Common Kingsnake book. Boards vs. carpet and tin...and when each works best...there's a science to all of it. You have the book...read Chapter 14. It is common sense...carpet holds moisture longer, but the moisture level has to be right for snakes vs. salamanders. Here is the basic order: tins-earlier in the season and on cloudy days, boards-2nd in the season or when moisture levels are correct, and carpets last.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 11:47 am
by Zach_Lim
Brian Hubbs wrote:That was explained in detail in my Common Kingsnake book. Boards vs. carpet and tin...and when each works best...
i'm so out of the loop- sorry Brian!

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 7th, 2016, 11:52 am
by Brian Hubbs
I edited my above comment a little.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 8th, 2016, 6:43 am
by hellihooks
I always set mattresses in my really private spots... so if i take a girl there, we can.... uhhhh... see what's underneath them. yeah... that's the ticket... LOL

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 8th, 2016, 8:04 am
by MSD
Fundad wrote::lol: Yeah I talked to a ranger a few years ago. He seemed to think, "Poaching" was rampant in the park. :roll:


I know this spot, and I seriously doubt Gopher Snakes, Kingsnakes, and Helleri are being shipped out to sell, and even furthermore that the USFWS would bother with a investigation for such species. But hey I have been wrong before.
When I explained I doubt any poaching was going on, he looked at me like I was a criminal. Sigh.
That's kind of what I thought. You can find all kinds of Gophers, Cal. Kings, and Helleri throughout this area without needing a board. Sometimes, right time of day, you almost trip over them there are that many inside the Santa Monicas.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 8th, 2016, 10:35 am
by Brian Hubbs
The main problem is that these park and F&W folks have not read my 2 big books (Mtn Kings or Common Kingsnakes), nor used the info therein to find out for themselves how many snakes are out there. If they had done so, much of the paranoia and misunderstandings about reptile populations would be gone now. This whole thing is a result of ignorance. Ignorance about where, when, and how to find snakes. :roll:

What they really don't understand is that these pieces of illegal cover are the absolute best way to get density information on most of the species in the park. I know several people were utilizing those boards to gather data for naherp.com

I have half a mind to refuse any data request made by the park if they are going to assume that everyone looking at reptiles is a poacher. This really pisses me off.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 8th, 2016, 12:08 pm
by Porter
someone ought to suggest to them leaving the boards and using it as a decoy to Ambush poachers :lol: boards are good for catching more than one kind of snake ;) then when they don't see a poacher they will know what the boards are being utilized for... 8-)

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 8th, 2016, 12:45 pm
by Porter
Worst case Cenario they catch somes Zonata lovin snake slave trading poachers :thumb:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 9th, 2016, 5:30 pm
by Gary N
I'm late to the party as always, but here's another LA Times article about the same subject. This clueless reporter thinks that the boards are pitfall traps where a snake crawls under then falls into a small hole or a bucket. Unless they're checked every day, they'd be full of dead animals so I can't imagine anybody would use a bucket. The small holes are no doubt made by animals, not humans. The amount of B.S. that is continually spread around about anything regarding herps and herping by the press and by non-herpers almost makes my head explode.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 9th, 2016, 10:29 pm
by Brian Hubbs
The only boards with buckets under them were the one's placed by a park naturalist about 10 years ago, and they were along drift fences...

Again, I think anyone with naherp data from the Santa Monica Mtns should not release it to the park service until they wise up...and reporters, don't get me started on reporters...I realize they need to appear to be experts on almost any subject they cover, but they make so many stupid mistakes it isn't funny. :lol:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 10th, 2016, 11:05 pm
by ricrabt
I wrote a reply about the data we collect for them. I also mentioned that although it is illegal to place boards out there, no law prohibits the flipping of such boards, provided one has a fishing license. ...

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 12th, 2016, 1:15 pm
by lateralis
I wrote a reply about the data we collect for them. I also mentioned that although it is illegal to place boards out there, no law prohibits the flipping of such boards, provided one has a fishing license.
More flies with honey ad nauseum, No license required for flipping trash as long as you don't take whatever you find outta the place. Educating them before threatening to withhold data would be the high road...that's what Nafha should be fixing - the ignorance on behalf of the media and the resource agencies.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 13th, 2016, 10:30 am
by lateralis
I just read the two articles from the nps and the la times. Unbelievable lol I hope Nafha leaders contact the authors and put them back on course. That was some poor writing and obviously had some heavy influence from the noob rangers. The new enviro ethic I see in this field is so heavily biased by granola heads and purists it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.
Not that leaving a bunch of trash in a nice place is okay (far from it in my opine) but to twist it into a crime scene and commercial poaching is asinine and totally irresponsible. There is little to no value in CA species at the commercial level, everything is being bred in captivity and available for public consumption. The same old lies told by the new generation of "stewards". :roll:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 13th, 2016, 1:48 pm
by ricrabt
lateralis wrote:
I wrote a reply about the data we collect for them. I also mentioned that although it is illegal to place boards out there, no law prohibits the flipping of such boards, provided one has a fishing license.
More flies with honey ad nauseum, No license required for flipping trash as long as you don't take whatever you find outta the place. Educating them before threatening to withhold data would be the high road...that's what Nafha should be fixing - the ignorance on behalf of the media and the resource agencies.
I never said anything about withholding data, only that most of the guys who look under boards and pick through trash are helping, not poaching. I also confirmed that leaving boards is illegal, but looking under them is not if you have a valid fishing license (which is not the case just to lift up a board, but would be if you handled a herp found under such board).
There is the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but you catch the most flies with bull s#*t. :lol: (my own personal take on that saying )....

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 13th, 2016, 2:32 pm
by hellihooks
ricrabt wrote:
lateralis wrote:
I wrote a reply about the data we collect for them. I also mentioned that although it is illegal to place boards out there, no law prohibits the flipping of such boards, provided one has a fishing license.
More flies with honey ad nauseum, No license required for flipping trash as long as you don't take whatever you find outta the place. Educating them before threatening to withhold data would be the high road...that's what Nafha should be fixing - the ignorance on behalf of the media and the resource agencies.
I never said anything about withholding data, only that most of the guys who look under boards and pick through trash are helping, not poaching. I also confirmed that leaving boards is illegal, but looking under them is not if you have a valid fishing license (which is not the case just to lift up a board, but would be if you handled a herp found under such board).
There is the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but you catch the most flies with bull s#*t. :lol: (my own personal take on that saying )....
you catch the most flies with dead squirrels (name THAT quote) LOL

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 13th, 2016, 2:35 pm
by lateralis
Apologies amigo, I copied the wrong quote lol. But somebody mentioned withholding data which is a hollow threat and likely won't result in anything positive. What should happen is a redaction of the published pieces and a spanking for the dolts who wrote And contributed to the articles in question. Those write ups are aimed at vilifying Naturalists who like snakes. Commercial poaching of common species like cal kings and helleri?? Where did these people get their science degrees at Walmart? It is amazing how utterly naive and ignorant these new "stewards" can be. I suppose all those folks in Madera canyon are poaching birds with all the feeders they set up in their campsite during the migratory periods :lol:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 14th, 2016, 11:23 am
by Fundad
This made it to TV. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/califor ... 35391.html

I commented on their page my thoughts.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 14th, 2016, 3:34 pm
by RobertH
And I just replied to and supported your comment. :thumb:

This whole story is completely ridiculous.

Robert

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 14th, 2016, 4:03 pm
by hellihooks
RobertH wrote:And I just replied to and supported your comment. :thumb:

This whole story is completely ridiculous.

Robert
There'a a bandwagon I might just jump on... :thumb:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 16th, 2016, 9:44 am
by lateralis
I don't care to support that little parasite, mark sucker burg ( iPad correction how appropriate lol) so I sent an email directly to the author and paper offering the unbiased truth about this poorly written article. IMO it would be a huge failure on NAFHA's part and especially the SoCal chapter to allow this to go unchallenged. Akin to getting sand kicked in ones face at the beach...

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 16th, 2016, 12:55 pm
by RobertH
I have to agree with lateralis that this story really does scream out for a corrective article or broadcast of some kind. The main problem is finding an outlet for the article/broadcast where it will actually be read/seen/heard. Publishing it here on FHF or through any other herping publication seems pointless to me. Ideally, the channel that ran the original - false - story would run a corrective story as a counterpoint. But in today's media environment I doubt that NBC SD has much or any interest in truth or balanced reporting. Maybe, someone else here has some ideas.

Lateralis: Whom exactly did you e-mail so far?

Robert

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 16th, 2016, 8:04 pm
by Speckled Rosy
Yep, its a witch-hunt now a days boys.. times are a changin. Thats why im glad I put time in years back and set up most of what I wanted to, all around LA, and got what i needed.. now its time to move a few things around one more time and disband a few other sites..

We are all considered poachers now.. :crazyeyes:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 17th, 2016, 12:05 pm
by Porter
The problem with going to the news and setting things straight is that the boards are in illegal territory. This isn't the way you want to introduce field herping to the media. Things could easily backfire... now if the boards were set before the land became off-limits that gives some lead way but still a dangerous situation. Things could go either way...

A Better WAy to introduced field herping to the public Would be by showing the public proof of where they are wrong and confused by simple... ease in basic concepts. someone needs to write an article about how people confuse gopher snakes with rattlesnakes because of gopher snake tail Shake. need to have clear pictures of gopher snakes heads and dorsal markings in comparison to rattlesnakes. also the difference between the diamond shape gopher snake flattened head when hissing in comparison to a rattlesnake's head that doesn't change shape. pointing out the tapered tail in comparison to a small button on a baby still is important to. and then showing a king snake rattling its tail to show the snake is actually scared and that the misconception is an act of killing a terrified snake not some evil creature. even then comma you will only be reaching people who aren't scared of snakes and don't drowned them to see if they will float at the Wich trials.

Anyways... I think the best step towards the media with field herping would be distinguishing the difference between a gopher snake and rattlesnake. Because that spreads the idea that not all snakes are bad and some snakes are being murdered because of people's disconcerned and misconception

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 17th, 2016, 12:28 pm
by Porter
.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 17th, 2016, 12:36 pm
by Porter
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Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 18th, 2016, 8:03 am
by lateralis
Robert I used the contact links associated with the article and sent duplicates to the paper and to the author. Hopefully an intern didn't put them in the vertical file lol.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 18th, 2016, 12:52 pm
by Fundad
Lateralis Wrote:
IMO it would be a huge failure on NAFHA's part and especially the SoCal chapter to allow this to go unchallenged. Akin to getting sand kicked in ones face at the beach..
Well as the president of the chapter, I should respond to this.

Items of note I talked to the one of the NP biologists 2 years ago, and I tried in vain to reach through. As a matter of fact because I tried to explain he became suspicious of me, but because others like DR Pauly, and the like I think it let it go. He emailed me again asking if I knew who's boards they were.

I never followed up with him for two reasons, one I felt there was no getting through, they believe what they believe. They are there to protect wildlife, it is what they get paid for, and it's obvious they don't want boards on the NP. I am not capable of changing opinions overnight, these things take time. I do plan on talking with him again, and maybe even try to work the the NP more directly.

But outside of a few records from that area, most of those boards were being checked by non NAFHA members, and they weren't contributing data, much. And irregardless on National Park land permits are needed for such studies, sadly.

It is on my to do list to work on their perspective, but it is going to take time.

Those are not our boards, and therefore this isn't sand in our face, directly.

Bottom line is don't place boardlines on National Parks and technically taking a single herp from the national park, even for personal collections is indeed poaching. It would be foolish of me to say no one took anything (IE no poaching), because somethings are likely to have been collected.


There is nothing I can do about changing the press coverage of such madness.

Brian Hinds
California Chapter President.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 18th, 2016, 1:15 pm
by lateralis
Hi Brian

My intent was to get the correct perspective out in the open and since education is one of our mantras I felt this was a huge educational moment. Personally these anthropogenic AC sites do bug me because it is littering whether in a NP or banning pass, and from that standpoint I agree and am glad the boards are gone. I don't go to NP's or the outdoors in general to see junk - I want clean air and nice views it's what my tax dollars are supposed to support. However, I completely disagree with the sensationalism and the fact that this field professional or not will suffer negatively because of yellow journalism. If the NP biologist copped an attitude go over his head to the park superintendent. Although I am a long term member I hold no office but I believe that those who do should be swamping the parks phones and the papers until an audience is granted and a redaction made.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 18th, 2016, 3:40 pm
by Fundad
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Agreed 110% and I have spent 10 years on this organization building reputations and relationships with agencies. As I noted I plan on talking with them and working with them down the road. I am going to let the dust clear and see what is going on clearly and I ll start another dialog with them.

But like I said, maybe someone is "collecting" some stuff there, no here here knows for sure. It would be awful foolish of me to rush to them on this matter. I'll get to it.

In the meantime we have been working with the USGS and I am trying to start work with the BLM to better build our brand.

Brian

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 18th, 2016, 10:01 pm
by lateralis
Hi Brian,
...I agree with you too, I wasn't throwing out a challenge to you personally, but I do see an opportunity here for NAFHA. While it is possible that people were collecting the odd king or gopher snake at this site, it was probably not at any meaningful level, rather just an innocent AC line someone has created over the years. Still a no no of course. No harm really but the foul is that once again a POS description about naturalists (generalists know to look under AC while hiking)/herpetology and the practice of field herpetology will be read, and foolishly accepted, as the norm. The average joe doesn't have the background on the subject matter to know how inaccurate that article truly was and we (the experts) need to make sure the media is held to a higher standard if they are going to publish something that potentially affects us as a group. I left a VM with the author offering a more lucid and less passionate perspective for the article he should write as a follow up; which would conversely make his employer look better and could result in his getting a raise ;)

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 19th, 2016, 9:44 am
by Fundad
Since poaching was likely, and since it is illegal to place AC in National Parks, I don't have the ground to stand on in a response. I am trying to gather info through the grapevine, but not getting much. It would be egg in NAFHA's face if indeed there was commercial and heavy recreational poaching going on there. Like I said, as far as
NAFHA is concerned we will wait until the dust settles, before offering a organizational response.

IME in dealing with the press, via my many interviews during my Gran Canria trip, and Law Enforcement experiences is that media in general, blows things up and out of proportion on purpose to get people to watch the program. It wouldn't be much of a story if was just a bunch or naturalists looking for reptiles.

Brian

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 19th, 2016, 1:14 pm
by lateralis
Hey Brian true enough well hopefully things work out. With luck the guilty party(s) will change their idiotic ways.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:51 pm
by Brian Hubbs
lateralis wrote
Apologies amigo, I copied the wrong quote lol. But somebody mentioned withholding data which is a hollow threat and likely won't result in anything positive. What should happen is a redaction of the published pieces and a spanking for the dolts who wrote And contributed to the articles in question. Those write ups are aimed at vilifying Naturalists who like snakes. Commercial poaching of common species like cal kings and helleri?? Where did these people get their science degrees at Walmart? It is amazing how utterly naive and ignorant these new "stewards" can be. I suppose all those folks in Madera canyon are poaching birds with all the feeders they set up in their campsite during the migratory periods :lol:
I wrote that about withholding data. I'm fed up with the mentality that suspects the worst right away. I called the Park Service and never even got a call back. I'm serious about telling them to go take a flying jump the next time they ask for data. Why should we help these ignorant morons? You won't teach them anything by giving them facts. Fundad tried and he was looked at like a poacher. I say screw 'em...give out data to CA F&W instead. Let the parks remain ignorant. It's been that way for years. I'm done with them. This is such a joke. If I thought we could educate them I would advocate that, but these are not high IQ people...they belong in the movie "Idiocracy"!

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 4:56 pm
by hellihooks
It's called matriculation, Hubbsey... work your way up the ladder till you find someone intelligent enough to talk to... :crazyeyes:

And... our 'El Capitan' has become SO MUCH more diplomatic over the years (unlike SOME people :crazyeyes: )... he's like my hero... :thumb: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 5:20 pm
by klawnskale
Neal Darby, Park Biologist of the Mojave National Preserve is not so close minded. He welcomes any accurate accounts of species in the Preserve that would be of note. Not everyone who works for the NPS is unapproachable.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 27th, 2016, 9:37 am
by Brian Hubbs
I know that Hanna, and I appreciate the intelligent NPS people, but this nonsense with the SMMRA has been going on for years. I've never placed a cover board in the park, but i did enjoy looking under the one's I found and taking pics of the animals I saw. I even have some from the cleaned up spot entered in the database.

However, until someone gets through to these nitwits (not me) I am going to withhold all my data from that area. I'm protesting... :lol:

You know, it's funny how they attack herpers who simply lay a board or carpet on the ground, but they say nothing about the 30+ pit fall traps that they've left all over the park to deteriorate and possibly kill herps. If they are done with their trap lines they should clean them up. :x

And Helli: I am not paid to be diplomatic...I simply say what i think and could care less who I might offend. Fundad is in a position that demands diplomacy, I am not... 8-)

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 27th, 2016, 3:09 pm
by klawnskale
Brian Hubbs wrote:
You know, it's funny how they attack herpers who simply lay a board or carpet on the ground, but they say nothing about the 30+ pit fall traps that they've left all over the park to deteriorate and possibly kill herps. If they are done with their trap lines they should clean them up. :x
Funny you should mention all those pitfall traps in the Santa Monicas; yes their biologists do use them for surveys. I think they are still in use but have no idea how often they are checked for contents. If a shrew or small rodent gets trapped in one of them (the herps may have a couple of weeks of survival unless they are located under very hot direct sun) they will only last a day, so they can have a negative impact on more than one type of taxa.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 28th, 2016, 9:10 am
by Brian Hubbs
Exactly. Maybe we need a photo news story about the abandoned pit-fall traps all over the mountains. One friend of mine says he has found over 60 arrays in various stages of decay.

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 28th, 2016, 12:08 pm
by Jimi
Huh. Having open pitfalls in various stages of decay seems like strange practice, from several perspectives (lethal bycatch being just one). Deploying large pitfall traps (e.g., not little soda cans) is a laborious enough undertaking that simply abandoning or removing them is not an attractive proposition. The usual thing to do is to cap them when your study is over, and leave them "put to bed" like that until the next time they're needed - next spring or whenever. Using buckets with matching lids (that just snap or screw on and off) is a good way to go. What are they using at SMMNRA?

I wonder if there's a constructive way to engage them on this issue. Attack them and they'll just circle the wagons - SOP for an insular fiefdom. I wouldn't start any unnecessary fights, public or otherwise - what would winning even look like here? And don't lose sight of the fact that, with their pitfalls, they're attempting to sample the biota as well - it's the same intent as the carpet & boards. Maybe there's a partnership to be built here.

I guess I'm asking folks to stand down here, and let Brian do his thing. Just chill out, and look to the long game. Perhaps the very long game.

My $.02...nothing else.

Jimi

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 28th, 2016, 4:29 pm
by klawnskale
Well, I decided to conduct a search and found this Blog posted by a former SMNRA Wildlife Intern who worked on their pitfall/funnel trap arrays just about two years ago. They use plastic buckets so hopefully they close the lids on them when not in use. There are some good photos of the arrays on her Blog Page. I think it would be rather amusing if the boards they use in their own arrays were nicked from illegal board lines found in the RA ;)

http://www.lindseylgordon.com/adventure ... amphibians

Re: Just a heads up if you're in teh Santa Monica Mountains.

Posted: April 28th, 2016, 9:46 pm
by Brian Hubbs
Jimi: I'm not going to attack anyone. I'm just going to withhold data. I'm done with trying to educate anyone. I'm a bird photographer now. Nobody hassles a birder. I even got Fundad into it... :lol: I saw this last week in Lompoc, CA. A tri-colored bird...how cool is that?

Image