Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Picture)

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Porter
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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 3rd, 2016, 8:24 am

hellihooks wrote:Chug some Nyquil and go the hell to bed, dude... :lol: :lol: :lol:
I did exactly that :crazyeyes: :sleep: far too tired

I would't have gotten so obscure if I wasn't being egged on into the use of ancient proverbs of tailless Chinese raccoons... I had so many pressure inflicting allergens in my skull, I felt my head may explode... I apologize. Then again, May may have had something to do with it...

Let's not veer too far from the subject on trial an keep things relevant to the case. Me being the guilty party to that. If we don't get the figured out, we're sure to have a marching army of dicamptazombies on our hands :shock: If anyone witnesses a tread kill, please submit your evidence. And for the love of God, please don't go out and create your own...!! :?

-porter

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by hellihooks » May 3rd, 2016, 3:08 pm

Porter wrote:[

Let's not veer too far from the subject on trial an keep things relevant to the case. Me being the guilty party to that. If we don't get the figured out, we're sure to have a marching army of dicamptazombies on our hands :shock: If anyone witnesses a tread kill, please submit your evidence. And for the love of God, please don't go out and create your own...!! :?

-porter
I've decided what happened (and am never wrong :crazyeyes: ) case closed. (AFAIK) :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Sam Sweet
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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Sam Sweet » May 4th, 2016, 8:45 am

An owl or a weasel might have done this -- both tend to chew up heads then discard most of the item. Raccoons usually eat almost all of larger salamanders (like tigers), leaving only feet. The eggs are recently-ovulated Dicamptodon eggs -- they are released into the body cavity and pretty well fill it up fore to aft before being taken into the oviducts.

Nice observation.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm

A weasel sounds more like it... I can settle with that :thumb:
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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Gary N » May 4th, 2016, 9:16 pm

Sam Sweet wrote:An owl or a weasel might have done this -- both tend to chew up heads then discard most of the item. Raccoons usually eat almost all of larger salamanders (like tigers), leaving only feet. The eggs are recently-ovulated Dicamptodon eggs -- they are released into the body cavity and pretty well fill it up fore to aft before being taken into the oviducts.

Nice observation.

Thank you, Mr. Sweet,

I did not know the eggs filled up the body cavity. That's exactly the sort of information I was hoping to learn.
Regarding who done it - if the people who found the salamander scared off the predator in mid feast, as they believe they did since the salamander was still twitching, then it still could have been a raccoon.

For anyone interested, the location was "...a dirt road not far from a creek NE of Willits in the forested mountains at an altitude of  approx. 2000 ft."

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 5th, 2016, 6:39 am

Its the same with animals that have similiar 'body plan' ie lizards that produce large numbers of progeny, when you open them up - they are all eggs.

In animals producing an abundance of eggs I honestly don't know what else one is expecting to find :?

I think this is an interesting opportunity to explore oviparity process, I have been looking out my window trying to come up with a good picture and what I came up with is if you imagine the ova being drawn into the oviduct per membrane as they near deposition - like tangerines in a plastic bag being drawn into a tube or sleeve.

This is how it happens for most egg producers, if its different in this case an amendment to clarify most welcome.

But I think it is cool how what could have been seen as just a gory sight is actually enriched just by being posted on FHF.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by yolodave » May 6th, 2016, 6:46 am

In regards to the perpetrator of this crime:

Owls will bite the heads off of prey. I once found two headless African Clawed Frogs in the burrow of a Burrowing Owl.

This scene harks back to my college days when I found a decapitated Northwestern Salamander on the trail at Lamphere Dunes in Humboldt County.

Dave

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Gary N » May 16th, 2016, 6:46 pm

yolodave wrote:In regards to the perpetrator of this crime:

Owls will bite the heads off of prey. I once found two headless African Clawed Frogs in the burrow of a Burrowing Owl.

This scene harks back to my college days when I found a decapitated Northwestern Salamander on the trail at Lamphere Dunes in Humboldt County.

Dave

This brings up another issue. I have seen a few dead (but not decapitated) Northwestern Salamanders while walking on the North Coast. None of them were on heavily-traveled trails or trails where horses or mountain bikes could have accidentally run them over, and they would be moving at night anyway, but they all looked like more they had been stepped on and not bitten or clawed to death. My assumption was that they had been stepped on by elk or deer, but maybe they were crushed by a predator and then spit out due to the taste of their noxious secretions. This one still had some of the white secretions on its tail and was found near a pond in a coastal meadow with a lot of evidence of Roosevelt Elk traffic.

Image

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 17th, 2016, 2:40 pm

I've seen Red-tailed Hawks continually stomping the ground of freshly plowed fields. I haven't been able to see what they are stomping though. It seems to be a hunting technique used for an animal too large or beneath the ground out of reach... or could you go so far as to say its stomping a snake after seeing a snake eating a vole and remembering that incident during a long time without a meal, and becoming hateful towards snakes which it dosen't like the taste of...or stomping a snake in the process of eating one (my silly theory).

However, the reason I'm mentioning this is perhaps owls utilize the same technique or a mammal (coyote? Which is pretty much a dog in behavior) stomped it out for fun or after biting the head off of a different salamander and remembering the awful taste...

Also, Gary, with all do respect... I did find more evidence to the bike theory:

https://www.rei.com/product/100420/diam ... 1486&lsft=

https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+guy ... jPqq2vM%3A

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 17th, 2016, 4:55 pm

Its clear Porter that you think it was a bike. But how many posts about bikes are you going to put on the thread?

Its diluting and unnecessary and adds nothing to Gary's thread to keep harping about bikes. Please think about how you would feel if someone kept fixating on skateboards or peanut butter on a thread you were earnestly presenting. Cmon Dude enough.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 17th, 2016, 5:14 pm

I know Gary personally. And theres a funny message in those links that he gets, but you dont :| thats my way of saying sorry (man to man, friends kinda thing) about the bike thing getting off track (which like my hybrid stripe theory, I only think is about 30% possible, however should be considered) anyways the bike thing has found closure so lets not focus on that.

What do you think about the hawks kelly? ...or rather, the stepped on salamander.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 17th, 2016, 5:25 pm

Porter thanks for not being reactive to my thing about the bikes. I would just like to see more interesting pics of salamanders, and plus we actually got Sam Sweet to comment here which was a privilege.

Most of my experience with wild hawks has been too distal to have merit. Most of the raptor guys I have known have been shot crippled or one eyed re hab residents so Im interested in the input others have.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 17th, 2016, 5:47 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:Porter thanks for not being reactive to my thing about the bikes. I would just like to see more interesting pics of salamanders, and plus we actually got Sam Sweet to comment here which was a privilege.

Most of my experience with wild hawks has been too distal to have merit. Most of the raptor guys I have known have been shot crippled or one eyed re hab residents so Im interested in the input others have.
Well, I'm sure there's a reason he felt it was important for someone serious like him to post, now didn't he? It's what the forum needs :beer: ;)

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 17th, 2016, 6:00 pm

Yeah? And maybe you're single because cattiness in a male is a verified chick repellent.

;)

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Gary N » May 17th, 2016, 7:14 pm

Porter wrote:I've seen Red-tailed Hawks continually stomping the ground of freshly plowed fields. I haven't been able to see what they are stomping though. It seems to be a hunting technique used for an animal too large or beneath the ground out of reach... or could you go so far as to say its stomping a snake after seeing a snake eating a vole and remembering that incident during a long time without a meal, and becoming hateful towards snakes which it dosen't like the taste of...or stomping a snake in the process of eating one (my silly theory).

However, the reason I'm mentioning this is perhaps owls utilize the same technique or a mammal (coyote? Which is pretty much a dog in behavior) stomped it out for fun or after biting the head off of a different salamander and remembering the awful taste...

Also, Gary, with all do respect... I did find more evidence to the bike theory:

https://www.rei.com/product/100420/diam ... 1486&lsft=

https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+guy ... jPqq2vM%3A

Are those airplane tires on that bike? That makes me want to take up mountain biking.
If a bike, especially one ridden by one of those large people, had run over its head, some of the head would probably still remain, don't you think?
I would think the hawks are stomping the ground to try to either scare up food or maybe to kill it. Those talons are dangerous weapons.
Porter wrote:Ive been saving this for the right moment...that moment is now

Image20160502_151737 by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr
I need to visit again some time for some snake hunting and Panda.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 17th, 2016, 8:22 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:Yeah? And maybe you're single because cattiness in a male is a verified chick repellent.

;)
:lol: I seriously don't have to say anything in defense of myself after that comment! Because you have literally just proven yourself guilty of every accusation you are bait/hook & line throwing at me. :thumb:

I won't be responding to you about anything on any post from this point on :beer: so dont mistake that as a personal attack

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 17th, 2016, 8:55 pm

Okay!

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 17th, 2016, 9:30 pm

Gary N wrote:
I need to visit again some time for some snake hunting and Panda.
Those are the words Ive been longing to hear ;)

Ok, hawk thing: I agree, in the case with the plowed field, that he must have been stomping something to death IMO because there are no burrow holes and all the dirt was freshly ground up that day by the plowing tractor. It could have been a mouse hiding within of dirt crevice... however, this Hawk was jumping up off the ground and using two feet to stomp down on something. so whatever it was it required some heavy-duty butt-kicking. I also agree with the possibility of bringing a rodent out into the open with some scary vibrations. Makes sense to me.

As for the bike, I do gotta hold on to my standpoint of possibility until someone posts some amphibian kills (which I have had no luck googling for). I'm looking at the angle, width between, and shallowness of those suggested claw scratches and I'm just not seeing in this case. Me not giving in can only provoke someone to post pics like that in the future which can only be educational to us all, whether it proves me wrong or not :thumb:

Here's an anecdote, because it happened recently and still fresh in my mind. I went out to photograph pond turtles and got within 20ft of them after about an hours of coaxing and non-predatory animal behavior portraying. Not too dificult, but not too simple, considering they were in a small brooke that has not yet been inhabited by the destroyers of nature. One of the last secret places I know to go. So as I sitting/laying across the creek opposite bank, a hard gust of wind stirs up on an already high windy day. Hardest shift in force I felt in my 2 hours of hanging out with these friends. Right at that moment, a brown napkin swirled over the crick and danced in between the turtle and myself. In a sleepy daze, I was reminded of the movie American Beauty. The floating bag caught in the wing scene. I following the paper towel in my view leading across to tje left. Right at that moment, the 3 turtle jump into the water terrified! I thought the wind had must had scared them, but that seemed odd. I figured it was a good time to leave, packed up my camera, and started out...only to noticed, that a bulk of weeds was now laying where 2 of the turtles were basking.

Thought process and reasoning in search of the truth kicked in... How did the weeds get pulled from the earth and land on top of the turtle at the exact moment of a gust of wind and having my attention distracted casually on the paper towel? There was a small tree that hung over the basking spot, but how could weeds have been up in a tree... could they be growing on it?

All my DSL shots were taken below the tree so I couldn't reference them. However, I had sent a phone pic text to a girl "friend" of mine who is currently a zoology/animal biology major. Sure enough, I found the clue.

The weeds had been growing in a small nub, just barely big enough to cup up and hold soil-ish debris on the side of the tree. With all the rain and wind we've had, it's amazing it didn't get forced out by now until this day. Such a strange combination of factors coming together to create a very unique and unbelievable event. First strong gust of wind, an already loosened bushel of weeds ready to give that had seeded remarkably by natures hand, the paper towel striking up a memory of a deep thought metaphor and causing me to miss seeing the weeds fall, and literally falling right on top of the turtles I had befriended for the day... pretty unbelievable however a 100% true :thumb: :)

Sometimes the seemigly impossible happens. Could that salamander be the cause of death inflicted unintentionally by a human? Well, I've seen far more amazing things to consider it an impossibility.

If I can just last this final year, I will be out of everyone's hair... that should make a good number of people happy. Then this hawk is gonna leave the field to the swarming crows. So please try to tough it out with me...cause I'm gonna have some good photog to share and positive changes are going to come to this forum. :thumb: Goodnight :sleep:

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 17th, 2016, 11:55 pm

" the swarming crows.. "

Crows are intelligent birds. To icon them in negative juxtaposition to the noble and misunderstood 'Porter Hawk' is bourgeois anthropomorphism at its finest

:beer:

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Porter » May 18th, 2016, 1:26 am

Kelly Mc wrote:" the swarming crows.. "

Crows are intelligent birds. To icon them in negative juxtaposition to the noble and misunderstood 'Porter Hawk' is bourgeois anthropomorphism at its finest

:beer:
Thats why I chose crows... (Im cool like that 8-) )We all, even myself, know the timeless observation on the crow dropping stones in a bottle to raise the water level to drink. Smartest birds there are. However, I wasn't referring to you at all, not that I don't think your smart, but that I wasnt referring to you. I think it's an accurate depliction on several levels. you're the one who sees it negative ,I see it as truth

Ill tell ya what, Im gonna post some pond turtles soon. Feel free to discuss skateboards and peanut butter. Save it for that, deal?

Please stop

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 18th, 2016, 1:56 am

Yeah of course your not "referring to" me - that's the same predictable babble people count on when they play snotty winking emoticon games with posts - however not every one is shy to dare look presumptuous in "public" and they may just stop and turn around to "explore" your comment directly right out in the open.

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by hellihooks » May 18th, 2016, 6:02 am

Kelly Mc wrote:Yeah? And maybe you're single because cattiness in a male is a verified chick repellent.

;)
works for me... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Headless Giant Salamander Question (Beware - Gory Pictur

Post by Kelly Mc » May 20th, 2016, 6:15 pm

Porter wrote:
Here's an anecdote, because it happened recently and still fresh in my mind. I went out to photograph pond turtles and got within 20ft of them after about an hours of coaxing and non-predatory animal behavior portraying. Not too dificult, but not too simple, considering they were in a small brooke that has not yet been inhabited by the destroyers of nature. One of the last secret places I know to go. So as I sitting/laying across the creek opposite bank, a hard gust of wind stirs up on an already high windy day. Hardest shift in force I felt in my 2 hours of hanging out with these friends. Right at that moment, a brown napkin swirled over the crick and danced in between the turtle and myself. In a sleepy daze, I was reminded of the movie American Beauty. The floating bag caught in the wing scene. I following the paper towel in my view leading across to tje left. Right at that moment, the 3 turtle jump into the water terrified! I thought the wind had must had scared them, but that seemed odd. I figured it was a good time to leave, packed up my camera, and started out...only to noticed, that a bulk of weeds was now laying where 2 of the turtles were basking.

Thought process and reasoning in search of the truth kicked in... How did the weeds get pulled from the earth and land on top of the turtle at the exact moment of a gust of wind and having my attention distracted casually on the paper towel? There was a small tree that hung over the basking spot, but how could weeds have been up in a tree... could they be growing on it?

All my DSL shots were taken below the tree so I couldn't reference them. However, I had sent a phone pic text to a girl "friend" of mine who is currently a zoology/animal biology major. Sure enough, I found the clue.

The weeds had been growing in a small nub, just barely big enough to cup up and hold soil-ish debris on the side of the tree. With all the rain and wind we've had, it's amazing it didn't get forced out by now until this day. Such a strange combination of factors coming together to create a very unique and unbelievable event. First strong gust of wind, an already loosened bushel of weeds ready to give that had seeded remarkably by natures hand, the paper towel striking up a memory of a deep thought metaphor and causing me to miss seeing the weeds fall, and literally falling right on top of the turtles I had befriended for the day...


The misfit is the one who is true and troubled, and
full of shining blood.


- Patti Smith

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