Guess this Coluber game

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chrish
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Guess this Coluber game

Post by chrish »

OK, I'm pretty new at this having only been seriously herping for 40 years or so, but these things still stump me once and a while.....Which frickin' Coluber is this, a Racer or a Coachwhip?
With live ones, I don't have problems, but this one is troubling me for reasons I will elaborate on once I get some feedback. I won't plant ideas by telling you my "gut feeling" and my feeling after studying the photo, just tell me what you think.

It was DOR in Fayette County, TX (near Luling). It is going into NAHerp.com as soon as I decide what it is.

Image

Image

It was easy to me after I first found it, but as I drove on later, I started to wonder.

Chris
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dezertwerx
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by dezertwerx »

Not idea here... interesting to see what others id it as :?
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AndyO'Connor
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by AndyO'Connor »

I say racer for now, can't explain with any characteristics or anything, just how I feel.
OkieHerper
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Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 9:50 am

Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by OkieHerper »

From my experience in OK and AR it looks like a Racer. None of the juvenile E. Coachwhips I've seen have had that clearly defined dorsal blotches. The ventral side also looks more like a Racer. Again these are far from being good detailed arguments, but I figured I would throw out my opinion. I'm curious to hear why you are troubled with the ID.

Josh
MAbernathy
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by MAbernathy »

Looks like a juv. racer to me. Found several in the park this year. That would be my guess.

Matt
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chrish
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by chrish »

When I found it, I said racer due to the blotching pattern. Coachwhips don't (usually) show this.

Then I started looking at the photo and seeing how elongate the head is (DOR artifact?) and that the head had dark edges to the scales (something I notice more on Coachwhips). So I thought I would count the scales as best I could from the photo and there might be only 13 scales across the body a little anterior to the vent (A racers should have at least 15 rows). Of course, I can't be sure I'm seeing all the scale rows, so that doesn't help, and I'm not counting at the vent itself, but....

So it's a racer....I'm about 85% sure....Wish I had picked it up!

Chris
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Grimleo
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Location: Portola, CA

Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by Grimleo »

I'd say definitely juvi. racer. I saw four of these yesterday, all DOR. That's what they look like a lot of the time..
=P
Paul White
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by Paul White »

coachwhips aren't coluber :P
I know, I know everyone accepts it but nasticophis is too good a nickname to miss out on.
Shane_TX
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Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by Shane_TX »

I don't see any reason to consider it a coachwhip though the missing chunk on the left side of its head does give it a coachwhipy look. I've never found a juvie coachwhip with blotches that were even close to that defined. Also, though I can't say that I've paid attention the the belly pattern on juvies, the adults (at least near the coast) seem to always have an anterior ventral pattern that is reminiscent of N. clarki.

Shane
ugh

Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by ugh »

doesn't look like any juvie Masticophis i've seen;looks very much like any juvie coluber i've seen.
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Scott_Wahlberg
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Location: Nacogdoches, TX

Re: Guess this Coluber game

Post by Scott_Wahlberg »

Definitely looks like a juvenile Coluber constrictor to me.

-Scott
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