Quick trip to the Smokys

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herper1
Posts: 242
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:25 pm
Location: South Jersey

Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by herper1 » September 26th, 2018, 10:05 pm

Quick trip to the Smokys with my family so I didnt have a whole lot of time to herp. Also I had been there before so Im just going to post some of the salamanders I have a question about...
I believe this is a Sotted Dusky
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another shot of it...

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Unknown ... Any ideas?????

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A pretty dull Blue Ridge 2 liner, (was trying to make it a Junaluska, but I think its just a dull 2 liner.

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A more brightly colored one..

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And what I really wanted to see.....Lifer Imitator Salamander

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DOR
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 11:53 am

Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by DOR » September 27th, 2018, 5:00 pm

On the bright side, you'll do better next time.

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Jeff
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Location: Louisiana

Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by Jeff » October 2nd, 2018, 11:14 am

I sent your dull 2-liner photo to Dave Sever, who discovered and named Eurycea junaluska, and he had this to say:

"If it is from a base-level stream (Abrams Crk, Fighting Crk, etc.) within the GSNP or neighboring drainages (Tellico, Cheoah), then it is very likely junaluska"

Jeff

herper1
Posts: 242
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:25 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by herper1 » October 2nd, 2018, 11:33 pm

Thanks Jeff for your reply. Everytime I look at that pic I wonder about it. Anyhow I cam PM you the location and a few more pics if interested. I know Its not a big post with a lot of great stuff, but can anyone else help me out and verify is that in fact a Spotted Dusky? Anyone have a guess on the reddish colored one? Im thinking maybe Ocoee?

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Aneides Aeneus
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Location: Lexington, KY

Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by Aneides Aeneus » October 7th, 2018, 6:44 pm

I'm pretty sure both of the first two Desmognathus you posted are spotted dusky salamanders. Were they found on the Tennessee side of the park?

Nice finds! The smokies are truly a special place to herp!

-Ananth

Jefferson
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Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by Jefferson » October 12th, 2018, 8:01 am

Man, the Smokies are always a nice place to be, aren't they? On you sally pics, it depends on where those desmogs were found (and the "dull two-line"). I've never seen one, but from looking at many pictures of Junaluska, my first thought when scrolling over that picture was, "Good grief, he got a Junaluska!" a sentiment that seems to be supported by others who know more than me. On your desmogs, the first one is a Spotted Dusky for sure, so long as it was found at low elevation on the Tennessee side (if not, then I'd lean Blackbelly of a unusually light color morph). Your second brightly-colored dusky is a puzzler, but again, it depends. This one looks a lot like the Carolina Mountain Dusky, although they don't range into the Smokies (their range stops pretty much at I-40), so I'd lean Ocoee Salamander. Some of the Ocoee sallies I've seen in W. NC and E. TN (an Ocoees live on both sides of the park once you get to mid-elevation and above) have been variable in the extreme--some are melanistic, some have a caramel-colored stripe, some slightly orange or reddish like yours, although usually not that bright. The rounded tail and base of tail on this guy rules out Spotted Dusky (unless the camera angle is deceiving AND this guy was found at low elevation on the Tennessee side). Hope this helps and that you get to go back soon!
Jefferson

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Aneides Aeneus
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Re: Quick trip to the Smokys

Post by Aneides Aeneus » October 23rd, 2018, 5:55 pm

On second thought, Jefferson could well be right about the second dusky. That's a color pattern I've seen in both ocoee and spotted dusky salamanders, so it depends on how keeled the tail was (which is hard to tell from the photo). If you saw it above 3,000 feet in elevation I'd say ocoee, and if you saw it below 3,000 feet on the Tennessee side I'd call it a spotted dusky.

-Ananth

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