Palos Verdes Peninsula

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Biker Dave
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Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 5th, 2011, 5:59 pm

I'm going to be at a family event next weekend (Valentines Day Weekend) in the Palos Verdes area. Anyone have any suggestions for a quick herp area out there? I know I know I know....giving away specific sites, yada yada....... but you guys know me ... a little help to escape the inlaws please!

pm me if you want to suggest anywhere in this quickie herp outing.

Thanks

Dave Weber

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LouB747
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by LouB747 » February 5th, 2011, 8:02 pm

PM sent

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 6th, 2011, 9:45 am

Thanks for the pm's everyone!

Dave

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Ross Padilla
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Ross Padilla » February 6th, 2011, 11:59 am

If you see any kingsnakes, please post the pictures.

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 6th, 2011, 12:01 pm

If you see any kingsnakes, please post the pictures.
But won't that upset everyone? Posting immediately after......

Dave

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Ross Padilla » February 6th, 2011, 2:23 pm

Well, you could wait if you wanted. I don't think we are as strict here as they are in AZ. Lots of recent finds from CA are being posted on here, facebook, and localityrosys right now. I think its the Zonata they would like people to wait on. No one has ever complained about posting a common kingsnake on this site, so I'd say you're pretty safe to do so if you wish. Good luck out there. TBH, I've never had a very productive day in Feb. in PV.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by bryceman » February 6th, 2011, 8:56 pm

i live in palos verdes

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Fundad
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Fundad » February 7th, 2011, 9:55 am

Dave Go With Bryce.. If he'll show you around..

He knows the area well..

Fundad

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by bryceman » February 7th, 2011, 10:45 am

Dave,, id be happy to show you around if you like... shoot me a pm if ur interested. Good luck!

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by devilfish79 » February 7th, 2011, 6:58 pm

Definitely post pics please. I live in Torrance would love to see what's in my area.

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 8th, 2011, 6:56 pm

Bryce

I'm only going to be able to get out for an hour or two most likely, and not sure at what time, so its going to be very "up in the air."

I'll pm you.

Dave

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 8th, 2011, 7:28 pm

Is road cruising an option in PV at night? Near the undeveloped areas I'm thinking....

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Speckled Rosy
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Speckled Rosy » February 8th, 2011, 8:31 pm

I know P.V. well (grew up in Torrance), and I know of a couple of short sections of road I've thought of cruising, but i think it would be a generally pretty uneventful place to cruise.. Even though, I've seen tons of DOR snakes over the years, I just don't think cruising would be as effective as spring hiking and flipping.. I've heard of Bryce, but don't know him personally. Like Fundad said he's probably your best resource, but if you need any aditional help, send me a pm and i could point you to some good places..

Good luck herping up there, Palos Verdes has some cool herps, and I believe I'm getting close to having them all checked off the list.. Last year found a night snake on the edge of urban Torrance and a couple of weeks ago, found the first P.V. legless lizard I've ever seen.. I also believe Horned lizards (could) be present deep inside a large tract of preserved land..

-Dan

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by LouB747 » February 8th, 2011, 8:50 pm

[quote="

Good luck herping up there, Palos Verdes has some cool herps, and I believe I'm getting close to having them all checked off the list.. Last year found a night snake on the edge of urban Torrance and a couple of weeks ago, found the first P.V. legless lizard I've ever seen.. I also believe Horned lizards (could) be present deep inside a large tract of preserved land..

-Dan[/quote]

Have you found a Mountain Kingsnake there yet?? I won't post pics of mine until after the season..........kidding...

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LouB747
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by LouB747 » February 8th, 2011, 8:52 pm

I've gotta say it's nice to see a known guy getting help. Isn't that what it's all about.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Judson » February 8th, 2011, 9:47 pm

Biker Dave wrote:Is road cruising an option in PV at night? Near the undeveloped areas I'm thinking....

I would advise against this unless you like dealing with cops. PV cops and most of the PV locals hate ppl coming up onto "their" hill. my advice is to hit up them spots I PM'd you. I've seen good numbers of helleri, kings and pits all through that area.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Fundad » February 8th, 2011, 9:53 pm

Isn't that what it's all about.

No.. It's not :lol: :lol:

Fundad

Dave Road cruising isn't going to work there, expect maybe 10 days out of the year.. The coastal climate just doesn't give you the hot days and warm nights needed for night driving... Most of the herps found there are going to be diurnal 95 percent of the time.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 8th, 2011, 10:17 pm

I figured as much .... but I also thought the traffic levels would be too high to be "pleasant."

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 9th, 2011, 12:44 am

Speckled Rosy wrote:Good luck herping up there, Palos Verdes has some cool herps, and I believe I'm getting close to having them all checked off the list.. Last year found a night snake on the edge of urban Torrance and a couple of weeks ago, found the first P.V. legless lizard I've ever seen.. I also believe Horned lizards (could) be present deep inside a large tract of preserved land..
That is very very cool. I had heard that legless lizards used to be common there but didn't know anyone who had seen one recently. And I'm glad that night snakes are there. I'd be shocked to see horned lizards though....

I'd be interested to know what the whole list is....obviously there are the two slender salis, baja cali chorus frogs, bullfrogs, legless lizards, utas, fence lizards, western skinks, alligator lizards, wall lizards, red-eared sliders, ringnecks, night snakes, gophers, kings, striped racers, water snakes, and helleri. How about the following:

Ensatina
Arboreal Salamander
Western Toad
Spadefoot Toad
Clawed Frog
Coastal Whiptail
Geckos (could potentially be two introduced species there)
Pond Turtle
Snapping Turtle
Blind Snake
Tantilla
Coastal Patchnose
Western Yellow-bellied Racer
California Red-sided Garter
Two-striped Garter
Mountain King

A good bunch of those are historically verified but are likely gone now, a few of them are just rumored or or have claimed sightings with poor support, some of them are verified but I'm curious to know if you've seen them, and some I just threw in there for fun.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Speckled Rosy » February 9th, 2011, 9:59 am

Jonathan, I'm sad to say, I have never seen any of those listed in PV.. but I feel some of those could be present in the largest undeveloped area up there, the preserve near Portagues Bend.

As far as the Horned lizards, your probably right.. but I think its a possability.. They are found on LAX property in El Segundo...

-Dan

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jonathan
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 9th, 2011, 11:01 am

Speckled Rosy wrote:Jonathan, I'm sad to say, I have never seen any of those listed in PV.. but I feel some of those could be present in the largest undeveloped area up there, the preserve near Portagues Bend.

As far as the Horned lizards, your probably right.. but I think its a possability.. They are found on LAX property in El Segundo...
I had never heard of them before. I had heard that until LAX destroyed the habitat a couple years ago they had the last LA Basin population of spadefoot toads.

As far as Portuguese Bend goes, I've spent quite a bit of time there without seeing any of them....but I haven't figured out the best stuff to flip there and haven't spent significant time in all the habitat, so it's definitely possible that some of the stuff has eluded me. There are some other places where I feel that some species could still be. A lot of the most promising habitat is beastly to hike through though....which is the only reason it's still around.


Here's what I can tell you about the species I listed:

Ensatina - many museum records from the 1960s, most of those areas now developed, I don't know anyone who's found one in recent memory
Arboreal Salamander - there's no records, but seems plausible
Western Toad - present through the 80s and 90s, but now extirpated in many (all?) former locales
Spadefoot Toad - historically present at least through the 90s, but I don't know of any still around
Clawed Frog - likely around somewhere, perhaps Harbor Lake?
Coastal Whiptail - maybe in the south-facing habitat, but I don't know of records
Geckos - at least two house gecko species have been sighted
Pond Turtle - historically present, and a random one was found crossing the street next to Madrona Marsh about 5 years back (pet release? could they have lived in a place as small as Madrona without being seen?)
Snapping Turtle - present in Harbor Lake
Blind Snake - found in the Whittier Hills, why not in South Bay?
Tantilla - historically present, I'd bet they're still around but don't know of recent sightings
Coastal Patchnose - Feels like they should be there, especially since striped whipsnakes are
Western Yellow-bellied Racer - don't know why they wouldn't be found there, but seem uncommon everywhere
California Red-sided Garter - Museum records from 1960s, likely gone now. They should exterminate the bullfrogs in Madrona Marsh, reintroduce red-legged frogs, and then bring in garters when the red-legs are thriving
Two-striped Garter - seems like they should have been historically present
Mountain King - one unconfirmed sighting, Hubbs swears he thinks they're there




I'd be interested to know if anyone has spotted any of those species in the last decade.

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Fundad
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Fundad » February 9th, 2011, 11:14 am

Cool lists, Thanks for the reset Jonathan.. :thumb:

:D
Fundad

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 9th, 2011, 11:53 am

Okay, fixed it with the clarification.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Aaron » February 9th, 2011, 12:32 pm

If you surf definately bring your surfboard as there are several good breaks. The most notable is Lunada Bay. It can hold big swells and the locals are especially welcoming. Even if you're just a beginner it's a great spot to learn at because the locals are so friendly. Expect to be given alot of waves and often in the evenings after surfing the locals like to have a big community barbeque and will offer all the newcomers and visitors a free plate and some free brewskies.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Fundad » February 9th, 2011, 12:50 pm

If you surf definately bring your surfboard as there are several good breaks. The most notable is Lunada Bay. It can hold big swells and the locals are especially welcoming. Even if you're just a beginner it's a great spot to learn at because the locals are so friendly. Expect to be given alot of waves and often in the evenings after surfing the locals like to have a big community barbeque and will offer all the newcomers and visitors a free plate and some free brewskies.

:lol: :lol:

Fundad

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 9th, 2011, 7:01 pm

I gave up surfing when I quit "other things" over 25 years ago . The beach has been very boring ever since! Damn sand flies!

Dave

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Speckled Rosy
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Speckled Rosy » February 9th, 2011, 10:13 pm

The Bay Boys have been chastised before... the Somoans, Brazilians, anyone who's willing to fight, can go down there and surf.. Breakwall locals are the worst, a bunch of hawaiian transplants trying to turn a two bit jetty wave into a Pipeline-like gladiator pit.. Never been out at Lunada though, and the stories are true.. never even thought about it..

Besides, Lunada is a big wave break and only outshines the others on extremely big swells.. being a goofy, I prefer indacators, upper Indacators, Boneyards, Turbos, or Gangas.. Hags is too crowded. And on the five year south swell, Dominators (shipwreck) is the best and most dangerous wave up there.. Left hand point breaks are a rare thing in Cali, and P.V. has several.

I don't get out out much these last couple of years, but have poked around quite a bit up there.... and thats all been on a body board.. always parked right on the top of the cliff.. very few problems and have actually seen the worst at my favorite breaks down the hill, Topaz and Saphire.

All I'm really saying is that Palos Verdes is for everyone to enjoy and explore. Bring the family and don't worry about intruding on the rich snobs, old square jawed salty pirates and punk rock kids.. Come flip some boards with me, with veiws of Catalina in the background.. ;)

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Brian Hubbs » February 12th, 2011, 10:54 am

Uh, Aaron...what Lunada Bay are YOU talking about...? :lol: :lol: :lol: Must be in some parallel universe occupied by Quakers... :shock:

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by monklet » February 12th, 2011, 12:53 pm

Aaron wrote:If you surf definately bring your surfboard as there are several good breaks. The most notable is Lunada Bay. It can hold big swells and the locals are especially welcoming. Even if you're just a beginner it's a great spot to learn at because the locals are so friendly. Expect to be given alot of waves and often in the evenings after surfing the locals like to have a big community barbeque and will offer all the newcomers and visitors a free plate and some free brewskies.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb:

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by bryceman » February 13th, 2011, 11:50 am

I did a herp survey during middle school in Palos Verdes for one of my classes and had some pretty neat finds. Indeed there is Tantilla. I found three during night walks on very hot summer nights during my survey. I found a few ensatina but have looked for them in the same place over the past few years and haven't found anymore. Most of that area that I found them has been bull dozed and developed unfortunatley. There are a few spots you could find snakes road cruiseing but you would certainly be wasteing your time. Much better just to night hike and conditions are only good enough during the summer.

I have a list from the LACM of all the documented herps found there over the years which people donated to the museum.
Anniella pulchra is very common here in the right areas. Sopacs, uta, cal kings, gophers, ring necks, night snakes, alligator lizards, slender sallies, striped racers, and a few others. The spots here are very productive during spring and summer and the views while hiking are breath-taking. Don't worry about rich locals, as long as your not on somebody's private property nobody will give you any s***. The local surfers are dummies... don't take them seriosuly. I surf here and free dive and spearfish and have had to deal with them my entire life up until now. They always gave me tons of crap but never actually did anything. They certainly threatened me, until I started bringing up 60 pound white seas bass and giant halibuts onto their beach shacks for filleting. They think they own Lunada bay but they don't. Just ignore them and go about your business. There have been a few law suits against them in the past which really calmed things down. They have realized that it's not worth it to go to jail over trying to fight a fifteen year old kid just because he likes to look in the tide pools near their beer drinking rock.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 13th, 2011, 8:20 pm

bryceman wrote:I did a herp survey during middle school in Palos Verdes for one of my classes and had some pretty neat finds. Indeed there is Tantilla. I found three during night walks on very hot summer nights during my survey. I found a few ensatina but have looked for them in the same place over the past few years and haven't found anymore. Most of that area that I found them has been bull dozed and developed unfortunatley.
That's awesome. The closest spots to PV that I know of for ensatina and tantilla are decently far away, so those may be isloated populations. I hope that both are still hanging on somewhere in there.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 16th, 2011, 8:36 am

So, anyone else have any current info on any of the following species in PV?
jonathan wrote:Arboreal Salamander - there's no records, but seems plausible
Western Toad - present through the 80s and 90s, but now extirpated in many (all?) former locales
Spadefoot Toad - historically present at least through the 90s, but I don't know of any still around
Clawed Frog - likely around somewhere, perhaps Harbor Lake?
Coastal Whiptail - maybe in the south-facing habitat, but I don't know of records
Geckos - at least two house gecko species have been sighted
Pond Turtle - historically present, and a random one was found crossing the street next to Madrona Marsh about 5 years back (pet release? could they have lived in a place as small as Madrona without being seen?)
Blind Snake - found in the Whittier Hills, why not in South Bay?
Coastal Patchnose - Feels like they should be there, especially since striped whipsnakes are
Western Yellow-bellied Racer - don't know why they wouldn't be found there, but seem uncommon everywhere
California Red-sided Garter - Museum records from 1960s, likely gone now. They should exterminate the bullfrogs in Madrona Marsh, reintroduce red-legged frogs, and then bring in garters when the red-legs are thriving
Two-striped Garter - seems like they should have been historically present
Mountain King - one unconfirmed sighting, Hubbs swears he thinks they're there

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Biker Dave
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 16th, 2011, 7:59 pm

Well all...

I was out Sunday morning in the area just to the south of El Cerro Park. All I saw was the ubiquitous fence lizards. I took some photos which I wil post a couple later this week. No snakes. I think there were too many people out at that time (0900-noon). 61-68 degrees air temp and ground temps (depending on surface was between 78 and 95). I flipped a few dozen rocks but only saw a zillion pillbugs and some earthworms.

And is there a reason why there is no cell phone coverage in PV? Damn good thing I didnt need any emergency care, I would have died looking for signal. Stupid AT&T.

Dave

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » February 16th, 2011, 8:14 pm

I've often had spotty cell-phone coverage on the south side facing the ocean. I have a friend who lives there who doesn't get any cell phone coverage to his house from any provider (rather, he didn't five years ago when I was last at his place).

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Ross Padilla » February 16th, 2011, 9:49 pm

Feb. hasn't been a very good month for me out there in the past. Its hard to find anything cool without checking a boardline unless you walk up on a helleri or something.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » February 17th, 2011, 9:50 pm

Marineland!?! Jeez Paul... you majorly just aged yourself!

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » March 1st, 2011, 9:50 pm

This is all I saw that trip....lots of them all over.

Anyone want to help me on subspecies? I'm thinking Sceloporus occidentalis longipes
from the range maps I have.

Image

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jonathan
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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by jonathan » March 1st, 2011, 10:38 pm

That is correct.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by FunkyRes » March 1st, 2011, 10:42 pm

Sceloporus occidentalis taxonomy seems to be a mess, I would just go with California Herps range maps for subspecies until they figure out the taxonomy of that species.

I can't tell the difference between Northwestern and Coast Range, and I think genetics don't match the alleged subspecies breakups very well. I would not be surprised to see a couple new species described and all subspecies done away with. But that's speculation, I guess we'll see.

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by hellihooks » March 2nd, 2011, 7:32 am

FunkyRes wrote:Sceloporus occidentalis taxonomy seems to be a mess, I would just go with California Herps range maps for subspecies until they figure out the taxonomy of that species.

I can't tell the difference between Northwestern and Coast Range, and I think genetics don't match the alleged subspecies breakups very well. I would not be surprised to see a couple new species described and all subspecies done away with. But that's speculation, I guess we'll see.
No doubt... I entered a coastal from Kings Co. and it was a true Co. record (1st ever)... looked like a longpipes to me, but according to the maps, it was a Coast or San Joaquin ... and since it lacked the characteristic triangular blotches of a Joaquin, I went with Coast. :D I sure wish the range maps had Co lines... :roll: jim

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Re: Palos Verdes Peninsula

Post by Biker Dave » March 2nd, 2011, 7:30 pm

Thanks for the assistance......

Dave

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