Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Fundad » February 22nd, 2011, 12:36 pm

True Habitat (Rock) destruction

On Saturday, I discovered a very popular spot, destroyed.

I know Bill and many others have enjoyed this place over the years, and many of not most of the herps left behind in the habitat. Now its gone forever.

There was a ton of AC to go along with the rock outcrops.

All of these herps I have seen there over the years are now buried alive or smashed.
Boas
Kings
Coachwhips
Striped Racers
Spadefoots
Western Toads
Salamanders
Uta's
Fence lizards

Very Sad..

Image

Image

Image

Image

Hard to tell if the rock piles where blown up with dynomite or pushed over with a VERY LARGE Dozer.


Just another example to remind us to enjoy what we have today as it maybe gone tomorrow.

Fundad

User avatar
M.J.FRANETOVICH
Posts: 538
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Location: Deadhorse/California

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » February 22nd, 2011, 12:48 pm

Bummer!!!!
Why would some one do that? Are the going to develop that area?

No matter the case "that sucks"


mel

User avatar
rpecora
Posts: 579
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:41 pm

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by rpecora » February 22nd, 2011, 1:09 pm

Sad, very sad. :(

So much for the anecdote about the cost to move that much rock, huh.

billboard
Posts: 473
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:34 am

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by billboard » February 22nd, 2011, 3:31 pm

I know that spot well; Rob Traisi and I used to hunt there back in the late 80's. I know you and hubbs were fond of that spot as well. Some really nice kings used to live there. So sad.

Same thing happening here. Almost all of the old spots are gone.

User avatar
jdustin
Posts: 454
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:59 am
Location: UTAH
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by jdustin » February 22nd, 2011, 3:37 pm

That's just messed up. I don't even have words.... just messed up.

User avatar
devilfish79
Posts: 45
Joined: August 9th, 2010, 7:48 am
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by devilfish79 » February 22nd, 2011, 6:56 pm

It's so very sad that people don't stop to think about the consequences their development might have on the indigenous life when they begin to rip apart an ecosystem for their own gain. It really makes me sick, physically sick to my stomach, that this is "the way life is" and that there's pretty much nothing that can be done. Money talks and everything else should just go and die, right? Greedy *insert expletive of choice*!

RobertH
Posts: 1834
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:38 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by RobertH » February 22nd, 2011, 7:35 pm

That's a real shame. I feel for those of you who have known and hunted this spot for decades.

Brian Hubbs' books first made me realize that this sort of thing is super-common in certain areas, namely those areas that weren't already built-over a long time ago. SD County and Riverside County seem especially hard hit. They have lots of open space that lends itself to development.

Where we live, in LA County, this process of destruction has "fortunately" pretty much run its course, and the few places that are left are, with some exceptions, safe from development. Our local mountain range, the Verdugo Mountains, are a case in point. They are administered by the Santa Monica Conservancy, and several recent attempts by developers to build hillside homes were struck down by the City Council (but only after a protracted battle), and the city purchased the property to make it part of the Santa Monica Conservancy land. Now, I feel pretty certain that these mountains won't suffer any further encroachment. That's a good feeling.

The more we go up there, the more we get the sense that there is much in the way of herps yet to be discovered there. Just today, we found batrachoseps nigriventris in our "home canyon" for the first time, and in an unexpected habitat (lunder a log in chapparral in full sun). We also photographed and filmed about a hundred Western toads mating in a nearby flood control area. It is really motivating us to put out a ton of AC and survey the area over the next years.

But don't get too envious - remember that the only undeveloped areas left here in LA are steep, too steep for development. The Verdugos are no exception. They are rather inhospitable and difficult to navigate off-trail. And off-trail we must go, right? Sometimes, when I see Bill's videos from SD, I realize that at some point in the distant past, there must have been rolling grasslands here in LA just like in SD and RS, places you can walk through, rather than scramble over. Those places are completely gone here in LA! :(

Robert

User avatar
monklet
Posts: 2648
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:44 pm
Location: Ventura, CA
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by monklet » February 22nd, 2011, 7:41 pm

Heartbreaking. Unfortunately, we nature lovers, just like everyone else, also love good family and a thriving economy, two co-dependant values, as a growing economy requires ever more good families. Just can't have it all in perpetuity. My guess is that because we'll take family and economy first, nature will come up short in the drawing of straws.

If you're even close to my age you know how much we've lost to date. Remember that even close to L.A. there were vast undeveloped areas. Get the kids out now cause they won't have much at our age given the ever accelerating rate of destruction.

But hey, it's just what's happening on this planet ...quite natural really. :shock:

User avatar
Judson
Posts: 114
Joined: September 14th, 2010, 8:54 am
Location: SoCal and SW NM

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Judson » February 22nd, 2011, 8:14 pm

monklet wrote:Heartbreaking. Unfortunately, we nature lovers, just like everyone else, also love good family and a thriving economy, two co-dependant values, as a growing economy requires ever more good families. Just can't have it all in perpetuity. My guess is that because we'll take family and economy first, nature will come up short in the drawing of straws.

If you're even close to my age you know how much we've lost to date. Remember that even close to L.A. there were vast undeveloped areas. Get the kids out now cause they won't have much at our age given the ever accelerating rate of destruction.

But hey, it's just what's happening on this planet ...quite natural really. :shock:
i couldn't agree more. sucks to see, but humans need places to live too.

User avatar
sjfriend
Posts: 256
Joined: February 20th, 2011, 1:38 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by sjfriend » February 22nd, 2011, 8:52 pm

i couldn't agree more. sucks to see, but humans need places to live too.[/quote]

yes we need places to live but why does everyone need a large yard they never use anyway. we need to build up not out.

User avatar
monklet
Posts: 2648
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:44 pm
Location: Ventura, CA
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by monklet » February 22nd, 2011, 9:01 pm

sjfriend wrote:yes we need places to live but why does everyone need a large yard they never use anyway. we need to build up not out.
Yeah, you can slow it down but the ultimate limits are determined by physics. There's only so much room on the planet. Ulitimately the human population on earth will either stabilize or decrease ...it's really up to us whether that be on our terms, or as ultimately would prevail, those of nature, which is not concerned with our plight.

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Fundad » February 22nd, 2011, 10:49 pm

I know that spot well; Rob Traisi and I used to hunt there back in the late 80's.
Maybe my pictures don't reveal enough?, this is one places you have taken many people to find their first boas, have you've been to this year, and this place was destroyed within the last month.

Mike- I thought the same thing..

Thanks for letting me share everyone.. I thought a few pictures would bring the word destruction to life..

Fundad

HerpHail
Posts: 27
Joined: February 5th, 2011, 7:11 pm
Location: Hemet, CA

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by HerpHail » February 22nd, 2011, 10:59 pm

That's a real shame. :( Sad to think of all of the herps... they had no warning.

Was this on a certain Winchester road by any chance? If you don't want to disclose on the thread that's fine... but since the spot is gone now.... :?

billboard
Posts: 473
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:34 am

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by billboard » February 23rd, 2011, 6:03 am

We do not mention street names here HerpHail......I know you are new, so now you know.

Yeah Brian, I was over there a couple of weeks ago, but the rock smashing machine was right off the road where all that trash and a/c used to be, in that field right next to some agriculture. At first glance some of your pics made it look like another spot we both know of....................


I was herping in the nearby area, and we could feel the vibrations from the rock crusher a mile away!

User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5722
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Fundad » February 23rd, 2011, 6:08 am

I was herping in the nearby area, and we could feel the vibrations from the rock crusher a mile away!
Is that what they call that dozer?? Amazing and sad..

Fundad

User avatar
Ted
Posts: 312
Joined: December 30th, 2010, 10:02 am
Location: SoCal and Cape Cod

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Ted » February 23rd, 2011, 6:15 am

It's so very sad that people don't stop to think about the consequences their development might have on the indigenous life when they begin to rip apart an ecosystem for their own gain. It really makes me sick, physically sick to my stomach, that this is "the way life is" and that there's pretty much nothing that can be done. Money talks and everything else should just go and die, right? Greedy *insert expletive of choice*!
I doubt i could say it any better. It may have to happen, but maybe we could think about it a little more before just ripping the land to shreds, maybe relocate some of the wildlife? Idk... :?

User avatar
herper79
Posts: 273
Joined: June 14th, 2010, 7:30 pm
Location: Santa Clara Co

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by herper79 » February 23rd, 2011, 7:35 am

Sorry for your loss guys, looks like it was a truely great herping spot. I also hate seeing this, and what gets me even more is if they are not even going to do something with it, they are just wasting time on the doser. One of the spots I go to had been smoothed over and went threw some boards, but for no reason at all. You could tell someone was just bored or practicing.
Nick

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by hellihooks » February 23rd, 2011, 9:00 am

Sometimes it's not even development... It's just 'cleaning up the environment'... you go somewhere expecting to see tons of ac, only to find they've 'cleaned it up'. Like the 'paintball house' up behind CSUSB... people have been bringing BIG AC there for yrs... they went in, cleaned it all up, and bulldozed the house. Tax dollars at work, I guess... :roll: jim

dabugman
Posts: 2
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 10:54 am

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by dabugman » February 23rd, 2011, 1:02 pm

It would be interesting to know whether the CEQA/EIR process for this development or land clearing took account of the herp habitat destruction, and if so how that was handled. It would be nice if the developer/land clearer had to provide mitigation--maybe pay you all for your herping/vouchering and A/C laying for the next 10 years? How much an hour would be reasonable? :mrgreen: Or at least purchase and dedicate a good habitat for perpetual herp homes.

(Yay for me--my first post!)

hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by hellihooks » February 23rd, 2011, 3:59 pm

welcome man! gotta say though... you 'bugging' :lol: :lol: Typically, for big developments, some enviromental impact studies are required, but as long as there ain't no protected species there... :roll: What usually happens is a private owner buys a lot, to build a house, and typically has it cleared/graded... so they can put in a nice green lawn to suck water.
Wish people would learn to build around the rockpiles, ect, when they build... but that makes it so much harder to put in the ole 'picket fence'... :lol: jim

User avatar
socalherper
Posts: 271
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 4:46 pm

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by socalherper » February 23rd, 2011, 4:57 pm

Oh Man... That is a shame.. The reptiles and other wildlife are being killed and herping locations are disapearing every year.
All the money that is spent on excavating the land and building, all for what high priced home's that go into forclosure....

:(

User avatar
Biker Dave
Posts: 2854
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pm
Location: Wittmann,AZ

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Biker Dave » February 24th, 2011, 9:21 pm

This all kind of shows how insignificant the damage is that we do rock flipping (and replacing) as compared to what we see here.

Perhaps a little research down at the county court house to find out who the property owner is. Invite them to a nice civil sit down discussion of what they destroyed and maybe maintain some herping rights/permission on the land in that area?

It couldnt hurt....and you might save some critters in the process.

Dave

User avatar
Ross Padilla
Posts: 2663
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 5:29 pm
Location: I love L.A.
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by Ross Padilla » February 24th, 2011, 9:52 pm

Don't know what to say other than that sucks.

User avatar
RLewisH
Posts: 164
Joined: October 5th, 2010, 4:41 pm
Location: Encinitas

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by RLewisH » February 25th, 2011, 9:38 am

harsh reality of life :(

I do have to say, I hate developers just as much as the next guy, but they provide jobs to families in need :?

User avatar
dezertwerx
Posts: 809
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:05 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by dezertwerx » February 28th, 2011, 9:00 am

Too bad... sucks but will continue to happen

User avatar
jonathan
Posts: 3627
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:39 am
Contact:

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by jonathan » March 1st, 2011, 7:37 am

My uncle's been in construction his whole life, but I wouldn't use "they provide jobs" as a reason to do anything. Everyone who's trying to make large sums of money ends up providing a job to someone - that doesn't make it right to do it. Drug syndicates and PETA provide jobs too. ;) (War and out-of-control government spending are two other fine examples)

The dangerous thing about the jobs that developers provide is that they go away once the development is done....unless they develop more, and more, and more, and more land.

jimoo742
Posts: 546
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 2:43 pm

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by jimoo742 » March 1st, 2011, 10:22 am

Yeah, people need places to live and construction provides jobs. Valid reasons if there were shortages of housing or housing that doesn't need fixing up. Neither are the case. There is an overabundance of housing and plenty of fixing up to be done before there is any real "need" for more.

User avatar
MarcLinsalata
Posts: 562
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:50 pm
Location: Los Angeles / New Jersey

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by MarcLinsalata » March 1st, 2011, 8:10 pm

Yup, reminds me of New Jersey..... :roll:

User avatar
RLewisH
Posts: 164
Joined: October 5th, 2010, 4:41 pm
Location: Encinitas

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by RLewisH » March 2nd, 2011, 10:59 am

I must have given the impression out that I don't mind or somehow even support the destruction of habitats for construction purposes :|

I don't agree with it. I'm not gonna go into politics or anything, but I do want to say whether for the right reason or not, jobs are needed in this economy, and while somebody could go work somewhere else, they may not make as much.

RockRatt
Posts: 25
Joined: February 14th, 2011, 8:28 pm

Re: Terrible News, Billboard you may want to read, or not..

Post by RockRatt » March 2nd, 2011, 3:48 pm

I know I havent been too active on here but I do follow it whenever I can and when I saw the pics I immediately talked to Brian and was totally bummed. That place holds MY MOST PRECIOUS moment in herping. My First time meeting a whole bunch of Great people (at least 20), and MY FIRST EVER Flipped Rosy on that trip. Total Bummer. I know there are MANY others that found there first there also.

I am sure that land that got destroyed was ALREADY a landowners lot since the agriculture area went really close to it already. This year when I waqs there the agriculture area was at the base of the hill. But I NEVER expected they would just demolish the hill like that. And the loss of all the junk boards and trash, as unfortunate as that sounds held homes for MANY species and some not found too often in that general area. Thanks for sharing the dis-heartening fact with us Brian.

Post Reply