TX HB 1788 introduced

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CrashX2
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by CrashX2 » April 15th, 2011, 8:41 am

Tim, Thanks to you and the others for all the hard work. :thumb:

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TimCole
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by TimCole » May 24th, 2011, 2:40 pm

HB1788 did pass the House and Senate and is moving forward.

There have been some amendments such as not allowing collecting from the paved road but the shoulder and right of way only. Spotlighting from a motor vehicle is not allowed. The cost of the stamp will be $10.

It still needs to be signed by the Governor.

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BChambers
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by BChambers » May 24th, 2011, 3:40 pm

Everyone needs to call the Governor's office and politely request he sign this bill. We're in the home stretch here, guys.

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infidel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » May 24th, 2011, 3:56 pm

TimCole wrote:HB1788 did pass the House and Senate and is moving forward.

There have been some amendments such as not allowing collecting from the paved road but the shoulder and right of way only. Spotlighting from a motor vehicle is not allowed. The cost of the stamp will be $10.

It still needs to be signed by the Governor.
It was passed this AM. It has to go back to the house so Farias can give the thumbs up to the amendments that the senate made and THEN on to the Governor for signature. This is where ALL herpers, herp groups, etc. come in. We need to circle the wagons and flood the governors office with phone calls of support. Late last night TP&WL asked for another amendment. They changed the term "spotlight" to "artificial light" from a motor vehicle mainly because defining a spotlight was problematic. So the paved shoulders and unpaved shoulders are available again assuming this gets signed. We should know something by next Wed. at the latest.
Governors Contact info:
http://governor.state.tx.us/contact/

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Biker Dave
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Biker Dave » May 24th, 2011, 9:00 pm

Good job Texas! I'll make my phone call in the morning!

Dave

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Paul White » May 25th, 2011, 6:43 am

pleasegodplease.

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Don Cascabel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Don Cascabel » May 27th, 2011, 3:50 pm

Not to down-play W. Tx. diversity, but I'd just like to point out that in matters of Lizard and Snake diversity, se. Arizona, and sw. NM are at least as diverse as w. Tx, also sc. California. The map is also wrong in some areas, for instance, n. Sinaloa/ s. Sonora are far more diverse than there northern counterparts. Also, does Chicago really have more snake & lizard species than Los Angeles County? Strikes me as odd... but who knows with all those skinks back east!

Overall nice project though... I found the rest of the maps on the Washington Post website.

Cheers,

Chris

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infidel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » May 27th, 2011, 6:17 pm

Don Cascabel wrote:Not to down-play W. Tx. diversity, but I'd just like to point out that in matters of Lizard and Snake diversity, se. Arizona, and sw. NM are at least as diverse as w. Tx, also sc. California. The map is also wrong in some areas, for instance, n. Sinaloa/ s. Sonora are far more diverse than there northern counterparts. Also, does Chicago really have more snake & lizard species than Los Angeles County? Strikes me as odd... but who knows with all those skinks back east!

Overall nice project though... I found the rest of the maps on the Washington Post website.

Cheers,

Chris
To be honest, thats my plan. I go herping for relaxation. I don't like looking over my shoulder, being harassed, questioned at length, etc. If they push the "Headlights are artificial lights" thing, I'll never buy a dang stamp. I don't collect anyway but I was going to buy one just to show my support. Sadly for us Texans, there is someone within the state wildlife LE agency that cannot wrap his mind around the fact that herping hurts no one and herping is good for the small town economies. He has let his personal bias/dislike affect his actions to the detriment of good honest people. This coming from one who is supposed to be pro-sportsman. Fortunately, there are many wardens that disagree with him and know his bias. Therefore, rather than put the good wardens in a bad position to where a potential argument might cause bad blood, I will spend my herping dollars in NM, AZ and CA.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Scott Waters » May 28th, 2011, 12:12 pm

I'm gonna go ahead and call my prediction on the TX situation from a couple of years ago. I said this would end up being all about money. ALL things in politics and government are about money. If you want to affect politics, talk money. In this case, the stamp (predicted that, too). I remember catching flak for even suggesting that it would come down to stamp, or some sort of financial regulatory angle! LOL Money puts you at the table, via a stamp or whatever. If you contribute money in some fashion, you get to play, that's our democracy.

This is a good deal for herpers who play in TX, like it or not. Better than the alternative.

Scott

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by OHI » May 30th, 2011, 11:04 pm

It is still legal in Texas to collect invertebrates with a spotlight so I wonder how that will affect enforcement if people are spotlighting? It also looks like it got two thirds of the vote, so it goes into affect immediately upon the Governor's signature?

Welkerii

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Shane_TX » May 30th, 2011, 11:54 pm

If you contribute money in some fashion, you get to play, that's our democracy.
We are already contributing money in the form of a hunting license.
This is a good deal for herpers who play in TX, like it or not. Better than the alternative.
I prefer the alternative of just buying a hunting license and not having another $10 tax. What the hell is $50,000 in extra revenue going to do, fund the stamp press? Beyond that, I doubt that the roadcruising issue is even on the radar of most wardens outside of a few south and west TX counties. Now that a stamp is coming.......... No thanks, I'm looking for invertebrates.

The technology is available to opt-in to some types of license use, such as HIP for migratory birds. It's survey data, and that's all (it's also free). Now that a pricetag has been placed, it won't go away and it won't help, it will just feed a bureau. I'd happily buy a $10 herp license, but alas it's a stamp.

I understand the frustration that led up to this, but it's most definitely NOT a good deal.

Shane

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Biker Dave » May 31st, 2011, 7:55 pm

Shane

OK, I'm not in, near, or from Texas.... just thought I'd put that out there first as a disclaimer....

The Herp Stamp is just a first step. From my personal experiences in other areas I have found that ....

1. Over time the enforcement of the "stamp" may become a non-issue if the rangers know that everytime they stop someone they have a stamp.... so over time they stop asking.... over time the need goes away.

2. You get a different set of legislators in and get a bill passed that keeps all the present language, but removes the stamp requirement as it becomes not economical (cost of printing vs. number issued).

3. You end up with just needing a standard hunting license.

If any of you are able, you might want to look up a guy named "Sputnik" in the motorcycle community. He worked to get rid of (or keep out) the mandatory motorcycle helmet law. They did it by getting their own people elected to the Legislature among other things. He's an odd character for sure, but he has a wealth of knowledge of how to get things done in the Texas Statehouse.

If we had our own insiders in the legislature things like this could be eliminated or at least so watered down that they become relatively unenforceable.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chris_mcmartin » June 1st, 2011, 3:07 am

Biker Dave wrote:3. You end up with just needing a standard hunting license.
You mean, just like it was four years ago before they passed the original "road ban" to solve a problem that didn't exist. ;)

This whole legislative mess is apparently about a personal vendetta against herpers by some in leadership, and about money--see the "noodling" legislation that just passed in TX. Pay to play.

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Mark Brown
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Mark Brown » June 1st, 2011, 3:16 am

chris_mcmartin wrote:
Biker Dave wrote:3. You end up with just needing a standard hunting license.
You mean, just like it was four years ago before they passed the original "road ban" to solve a problem that didn't exist. ;)

This whole legislative mess is apparently about a personal vendetta against herpers by some in leadership, and about money--see the "noodling" legislation that just passed in TX. Pay to play.
Amen, and since they spent their time performing this vital service :lol: for the taxpayers of Texas, they're now having to have a special session to deal with frivolities like education funding. :cry:

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » June 1st, 2011, 12:29 pm

chris_mcmartin wrote:
Biker Dave wrote:3. You end up with just needing a standard hunting license.
This whole legislative mess is apparently about a personal vendetta against herpers by some in leadership
I could go on for hours about this subject sir...

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chris_mcmartin » June 1st, 2011, 2:16 pm

infidel wrote:
chris_mcmartin wrote:
Biker Dave wrote:3. You end up with just needing a standard hunting license.
This whole legislative mess is apparently about a personal vendetta against herpers by some in leadership
I could go on for hours about this subject sir...

I know you could. :lol: But since I do not have firsthand knowledge of all that transpired, I am relegated to qualifying my remark with "apparently."

I still say we need to enlist the services of an aspiring journalist to dig into this story--plenty of drama, intrigue, fencing, true love...

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infidel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » June 1st, 2011, 4:15 pm

chris_mcmartin wrote:
I know you could. :lol: But since I do not have firsthand knowledge of all that transpired, I am relegated to qualifying my remark with "apparently."

I still say we need to enlist the services of an aspiring journalist to dig into this story--plenty of drama, intrigue, fencing, true love...
Well Chris, you go serve your country and put your life on the line for the folks back home. When you get back, the fine state of Texas (SOME in TP&WL) will reward you with a citation for picking up a snake off the road. It's a sad state of affairs. For me and the rest of the crew, we appreciate your service.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Shane_TX » June 2nd, 2011, 12:09 am

If we had our own insiders in the legislature things like this could be eliminated or at least so watered down that they become relatively unenforceable.
TX had a lot of good people fighting the ridiculous nature of the roadcruising ban (not a herping ban, but a road issue). I don't think that any were particularly on the inside, but they definitely put up a fight. Unfortunately, after a long battle, it appears that a $tamp was the way to turn the tide. Basically we have the original issue of herping roadways turn into an issue of needing a stamp to (legally) herp, period. I may be way off but I really doubt that the program will generate enough revenue to help in any significant way.

As it is now, you can fieldherp with a hunting license (a few caveats, but nothing out of the ordinary). In the future, if you want to herp at all, you'll need a stamp. For those who don't frequent west or south TX, the stamp is a very annoying level of consideration. It's not annoying due to recognition, it's annoying because there's no other stamp that regulates so few people in regard to so many different species.

Blah. I'm just venting anyway, I hunt and fish typical game animals so the license isn't an issue. I think I'll fiscally object to this stamp, however (unless it's included in the combo I purchase). Hopefully the game wardens in 250 unpopular counties have better things to enforce.

Shane

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Mark Brown
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Mark Brown » June 2nd, 2011, 12:57 am

When certain groups of politicians start yammering about taking governing power away from the federal government and putting in the hands of individual states, stuff like this really gives me serious pause. State governments, and Texas in particular, seem especially adept at forumulating ridiculous solutions to non-existant problems, while cleverly avoiding dealing with the real problems they were elected to address. The longer I'm around, the less I'm convinced that either state or federal government has the capacity to make rational decisions.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by ClintSnakeman » October 5th, 2011, 6:50 am

I picked up my Reptile and Amphibian stamps yesterday. When I asked does my 8 year old daughter need a stamp... they had to some searching and said yes. So now she can legally walk cuts with me and catch reptiles and amphibians. Just another taxing system from Texas. A big thanks to all who had their hand in this amendment.

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Daryl Eby
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Daryl Eby » October 5th, 2011, 6:59 am

ClintSnakeman wrote:I picked up my Reptile and Amphibian stamps yesterday. When I asked does my 8 year old daughter need a stamp... they had to some searching and said yes. So now she can legally walk cuts with me and catch reptiles and amphibians. Just another taxing system from Texas. A big thanks to all who had their hand in this amendment.
Did y'all get your reflective vests? My boys love their neon vests. I hate mine.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by ClintSnakeman » October 5th, 2011, 7:05 am

Daryl Eby wrote:
ClintSnakeman wrote:I picked up my Reptile and Amphibian stamps yesterday. When I asked does my 8 year old daughter need a stamp... they had to some searching and said yes. So now she can legally walk cuts with me and catch reptiles and amphibians. Just another taxing system from Texas. A big thanks to all who had their hand in this amendment.
Did y'all get your reflective vests? My boys love their neon vests. I hate mine.
Too funny. No vests yet! My girl is far from a girlie girl, so the color will matter to her. I personally don't care as long as it does not affect me spotting wildlife. I had to go to a TPWD office, where did you get your stamps?

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Daryl Eby
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Daryl Eby » October 5th, 2011, 7:13 am

We got our licenses and stamps at True Value in Alpine. Anyplace that sells Texas hunting licenses should also be able to sell the "stamps". As you've seen, they aren't literally "stamps", just an extra printed line on the license.

We got our reflective vests at the Alco in Alpine. Just $11 on sale. Choices were neon yellow or neon orange, both with stylish silver strips and fancy Velcro "buttons".

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by ClintSnakeman » October 5th, 2011, 7:54 am

The local Academy here in Houston could not find anything on the stamp... though I showed them page 26 of the Outdoor Annual. The vest will certainly be interesting. You live in an awesome area, to say the least...

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chris_mcmartin » October 5th, 2011, 9:39 am

Note that TPWD Law Enforcement has a different interpretation of the latest ROW rules than many of "us" do, including a different interpretation of what constitutes the shoulder of a road (i.e. what the general public considers the shoulder--the paved part right of the solid white line--TPWD calls the "improved shoulder" in accordance with the Traffic Code, and they say it's off-limits to touching herps).

You also can't spot herps in your headlights (though that was previously considered OK before the ROW ban).

You apparently can't sell anything you catch on the ROW (or on any public land in TX)--no mention of commercial/dealer's nongame permits...?

A more comprehensive Q&A from Scott Vaca, Assistant Chief of Wildlife Enforcement, TPWD, appeared in the latest issue of the SWCHR Bulletin, accessible to members at http://www.southwesternherp.com. I had to add a note that for better or worse, this is how TPWD LE is interpreting the new rules.

Speaking of the new rules, these vests y'all are buying--are they the standard safety vests commonly available? If so, do they actually have 144 square inches of reflective material on both the front AND the back as required?

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Daryl Eby » October 5th, 2011, 10:12 am

chris_mcmartin wrote:Speaking of the new rules, these vests y'all are buying--are they the standard safety vests commonly available? If so, do they actually have 144 square inches of reflective material on both the front AND the back as required?
Mine are just "standard", Dickey brand reflective vests. Just like road crews typically wear. As to how much "reflective material" they have, I guess that depends on how "reflective" is defined. In my opinion, the whole thing is reflective. Mine has both neon mesh type material and a metallic looking tape. I doubt there is 144" of the tape on front and back, but maybe. Seems to me that the neon mesh alone should be considered reflective.

Kinda funny but relevant story: I typically shine my light down or toward myself when a car is approaching. I do this to dull the light and avoid distracting the driver. When I tried this with my new vest, I glowed like a giant, radioactive orange and the entire rock cut on both sides of the road glowed orange. I think I scared the driver!

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chrish » October 5th, 2011, 5:32 pm

Daryl Eby wrote:
chris_mcmartin wrote:Speaking of the new rules, these vests y'all are buying--are they the standard safety vests commonly available? If so, do they actually have 144 square inches of reflective material on both the front AND the back as required?
Mine are just "standard", Dickey brand reflective vests. Just like road crews typically wear. As to how much "reflective material" they have, I guess that depends on how "reflective" is defined. In my opinion, the whole thing is reflective. Mine has both neon mesh type material and a metallic looking tape. I doubt there is 144" of the tape on front and back, but maybe. Seems to me that the neon mesh alone should be considered reflective.
I really want to see someone get stopped by a game warden on the principle that there isn't 144" of reflective material on their standard reflective safety vest. What is he going to do, calculate the total area next to the road at night? Go ahead, I'll take that ticket just to watch him do the math. :lol:

Also, I don't think the statute says the 144 sq inches has to be on the outside of the vest. I'm counting both sides of my reflective tape. :lol:

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Biker Dave » October 5th, 2011, 9:18 pm

This vest conversation is starting to sound just like the conversations regarding a mandatory helmet law for motorcycle riders....

Dave

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chris_mcmartin
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chris_mcmartin » October 6th, 2011, 1:33 am

chrish wrote:
Daryl Eby wrote:
chris_mcmartin wrote:Speaking of the new rules, these vests y'all are buying--are they the standard safety vests commonly available? If so, do they actually have 144 square inches of reflective material on both the front AND the back as required?
Mine are just "standard", Dickey brand reflective vests. Just like road crews typically wear. As to how much "reflective material" they have, I guess that depends on how "reflective" is defined. In my opinion, the whole thing is reflective. Mine has both neon mesh type material and a metallic looking tape. I doubt there is 144" of the tape on front and back, but maybe. Seems to me that the neon mesh alone should be considered reflective.
I really want to see someone get stopped by a game warden on the principle that there isn't 144" of reflective material on their standard reflective safety vest. What is he going to do, calculate the total area next to the road at night? Go ahead, I'll take that ticket just to watch him do the math. :lol:

Also, I don't think the statute says the 144 sq inches has to be on the outside of the vest. I'm counting both sides of my reflective tape. :lol:
I still say we develop a 144-square inch reflective snake silhouette, or spell out "HCU-TX" or something to fulfill that requirement.

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chrish
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by chrish » October 6th, 2011, 5:39 am

chris_mcmartin wrote:I still say we develop a 144-square inch reflective snake silhouette, or spell out "HCU-TX" or something to fulfill that requirement.
I wonder how many square inches of reflective tape it would take to spell out "Leave me alone, I'm herping. And, yes, it is legal."

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Gluesenkamp » October 6th, 2011, 5:58 am

Image

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Biker Dave
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Biker Dave » October 6th, 2011, 7:31 pm

Lady GaGa is a crime just as herself in Texas... and should be just about everywhere else IMO

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by ChrisNM » October 6th, 2011, 7:43 pm

katy perry's hotter...

Image

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infidel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » October 7th, 2011, 4:19 am

Man, this thread is taking some odd turns...Those two are freaks, this is how really good looking women look boys. Texas grown too :)
Image
Now back to our regulary scheduled program...herping in Texas.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by jimoo742 » October 7th, 2011, 4:57 am

I'll take the freaks, thanks

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Gluesenkamp
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Gluesenkamp » October 7th, 2011, 5:48 am

Uhm, I don't see 144 si of reflective material on both of them combined. CITATION!

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infidel
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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » October 7th, 2011, 9:37 am

jimoo742 wrote:I'll take the freaks, thanks
Boston, go figure... :roll:

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by infidel » October 7th, 2011, 9:38 am

Gluesenkamp wrote:Uhm, I don't see 144 si of reflective material on both of them combined. CITATION!
I sold them vests right after the photo sir! I was called names and run off by others around me when they tried to put them on.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Gluesenkamp » October 7th, 2011, 9:40 am

Carry on.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Paul White » October 7th, 2011, 10:18 am

Are they going to evaluate it re: numbers sold? and if so when do I need to buy one in time for it to count?

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Daryl Eby » October 7th, 2011, 2:58 pm

Paul White wrote:Are they going to evaluate it re: numbers sold? and if so when do I need to buy one in time for it to count?
You should have your new hunting license and herp stamp already. They're good from 9/1 to 8/31.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Paul White » October 7th, 2011, 3:12 pm

I haven't gotten around to it. Haven't been out in the field at all really for 2-3 weeks now :( Apart from the thing at Jesse Jone's Park.

I also haven't ever had a hunting license before. Not really up on them.

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Re: TX HB 1788 introduced

Post by Daryl Eby » October 7th, 2011, 3:49 pm

Paul White wrote:I also haven't ever had a hunting license before. Not really up on them.
Many years back, I bought my very first hunting license in July. The conversation with the hunting department salesman went something like this:

Me: "I need a hunting license."
Salesman: "Huntin season don't open til September and the licenses ain't for sale until late August."
Me: "I need one for this year."
Salesman: (looking at me like I just fell off the short bus) "Son, huntin season is over, you'll have to wait."
Me: "No, I need one for this week-end."
Salesman: "Just what do you plan on shootin in July?"
Me: "Nothing." (By now, I was really enjoying this and he was wavering between pissed and puzzled.)
Salesman: "If you ain't shootin' nuthin, why'd you need a license?"
Me: "Snake hunting"
Salesman: "I thought you said you weren't shootin anything."
Me: "That's right."
Salesmen: "So, you want to buy a license that'll expire in six weeks and can't be used for any game so that you can go out and not shoot snakes?"
Me: "Yep."
Salesman: "Sounds either crazy or stupid."
Me: "Yep."

After all that, he couldn't find his license book and I had to go to another store.

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