Possible Country Records for the US

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 23rd, 2011, 12:03 am

Here's a fun one for those of you who live close to the border...

Herps that could be found in the USA, but haven't yet...

California:

Bogertophis rosaliae (one record, probably legit, but very controversial... someone could find this if they tried)

Arizona:

Phyllodactylus homolepidurus
Bufo mazatlanensis
Trimorphodon tau
Boa constrictor???
Leptodactylus melanonotus
Ctenosaura macrolophus

(any of those could turn up on the res or possibly in se. Az. somewhere)

New Mexico:

Ambystoma rosaceum - That thing totally crosses the border somewhere in NM.
Phrynosoma ditmarsi - also
Storeria storerioides - possible, it get's close

Texas:

Who knows, but I think southern and western TExas have been sampled pretty good.

Go look!

Chris

User avatar
azatrox
Posts: 793
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 5:51 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by azatrox » March 23rd, 2011, 3:33 am

I'm on the lookout for those every time I'm down by the border...

Would be really cool to voucher a wild Boa constrictor north of the border...My understanding is that they're not that far south of it.

-Kris

User avatar
Don Becker
Posts: 3355
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:21 am
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Becker » March 23rd, 2011, 5:42 am

I didn't know the native range of boa constrictors came that close to the US border. I always assumed they only ranged through the souther half of mexico.

User avatar
reptilist
Posts: 653
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:30 am
Location: Clifton, Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by reptilist » March 23rd, 2011, 7:04 am

I found one in Tucson, at Campbell and Prince.

Paul White
Posts: 2288
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Paul White » March 23rd, 2011, 7:42 am

specially if we ever get rains back
*grumble grumble grumble*
damn right. I want some moisture. It's been a bone dry winter and spring so far and the streams and ponds are drying up again.

User avatar
Correcamino
Posts: 444
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 11:50 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Correcamino » March 23rd, 2011, 8:05 am

Yeah,
Boa constrictor, Imantodes gemmistratus and I believe Trimorphodon tau have all been found at Benjamin Hill, Sonora. I believe there is a tau record almost right on the border but on the Mexican side somewhere near Cochise County.
And then there are the old records for Psuedoeurycea belli near Prescott...
CC

User avatar
MHollanders
Posts: 583
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 1:32 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by MHollanders » March 23rd, 2011, 1:56 pm

Haven't the borders been herped extensively already? Every year the forum is flooded by posts from SE AZ/SW NM, although I'm not sure if that's where these animals would pop up.

User avatar
Kent VanSooy
Posts: 1100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:51 am
Location: Oceanside

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Kent VanSooy » March 23rd, 2011, 2:38 pm

What about Bipes in AZ? I've heard rumors and speculation....

User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Natalie McNear » March 23rd, 2011, 2:48 pm

DFRetes wrote:Back to boas, we Bill Garska and I, investigated a report by a forest ranger. He was on horseback and found what sounded like an adult boa. 7ft long, fat, dark brown, etc. This was also in the same area as vinesnakes and the cateyed snake. Which by the way, is directly north in the same mountain ranges as the most northern boa populations.
Sounds like someone likely overestimated the size of a dark adult gophersnake they saw. B. c. imperator of the northern mountains of Sonora are a dwarf variety, even the females only get slightly over 5 feet in length.

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 4:43 pm

Don't forget to keep an eye out for Phrynosoma ditmarsi in SE AZ/SW NM.

Ambystoma rosaceum makes it somewhat close to the border, but only place that would really make sense would be the Animas.


Edit: oops, saw you included these.

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 4:57 pm

MHollanders wrote:Haven't the borders been herped extensively already? Every year the forum is flooded by posts from SE AZ/SW NM, although I'm not sure if that's where these animals would pop up.
Yes that region gets visited by herp tourists hunting the same canyons/ranges that people have been hitting for the last 50 years. Very few herpers are hitting new areas, so there are still plenty of gaps in our knowledge of herp distribution by the border. Some of the gaps are because of access (i.e. some of the species DC mentioned have a good chance of showing up on reservation land), just plain laziness (Huachucas for the 109281982917289 time anyone?), and secrecy, but I think a large part of it is that not many herpers are confident enough in their abilities to spend resources looking for stuff without someone posting one from that locale a week earlier.

-JJ

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 5:00 pm

Oh, add Coleonyx fasciatus. I think there's a record from near Cananea for them - I doubt it's the "real TDF fasciatus" but its still worth taking a look at any geckos in that area.

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 6:22 pm

DFRetes wrote: Crotalus, Coleonyx fasciatus Is without question found close to Cananea. I collected three and turned two over to the ASDM. But they somehow failed to do anything with them.
The animals indeed are more, fasciatus. They were within that same 50 miles south of the border number.
I doubt it, but I'd love to see some pics. There are a bunch of "fasciatus" in collections that aren't the same beast as the C. fasciatus popping up in the TDF in southern Sonora and Sinaloa.

-JJ

User avatar
The Real Snake Man
Posts: 405
Joined: June 12th, 2010, 3:08 pm
Location: Pasadena, CA or Mission, TX

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by The Real Snake Man » March 23rd, 2011, 6:23 pm

DFRetes wrote:Also, many years ago, I found a dor cat eyed snake in the same area as vine snakes, etc.
What kind of cat-eyed snake (scientific name), and in Mexico or the western U.S.?

Shane_TX
Posts: 603
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 5:44 pm
Location: Upper TX Coast

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Shane_TX » March 23rd, 2011, 6:25 pm

Ambystoma rosaceum - That thing totally crosses the border somewhere in NM.
Not familiar with the species other than a quick google, but is it possible that it may rest in a jar labeled as tigrinum?

Shane

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 6:28 pm


Not familiar with the species other than a quick google, but is it possible that it may rest in a jar labeled as tigrinum?

Shane
The adults look pretty similar, but they live up high, so it'd almost have to be a "tigrinum" someone picked up in a creek through pine/oak in the animas or peloncillos or something of the sort.

erik loza
Posts: 244
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:01 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by erik loza » March 23rd, 2011, 7:31 pm

Somewhat off-topic but how feasible is to herp around the border areas in AZ or SoCal, for rosaliae, for example, with so much activity from USBP, illegals, cartel action, etc.?

Just curious because it's been some time since I lived in CA.

User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Natalie McNear » March 23rd, 2011, 7:44 pm

LOTS of border patrol down in the areas of AZ where I was, expect to get pulled over all the time for driving suspiciously at night (road cruising). I also encountered several illegals in the wilderness, none of whom were threatening. It's really the smugglers (of both drugs and humans) you need to watch out for.

gretzkyrh4
Posts: 661
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:17 am
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by gretzkyrh4 » March 23rd, 2011, 7:48 pm

Out of curiosity what was the last native "country record" in the US? (not taxonomic split or invasive in FL)

Chris

erik loza
Posts: 244
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:01 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by erik loza » March 23rd, 2011, 7:48 pm

It's all Cartel action here in TX. Maybe the danger aspect does not exist in CA or AZ?

Thanks for responding.

User avatar
Chris Smith
Posts: 2340
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:13 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Chris Smith » March 23rd, 2011, 7:54 pm

gretzkyrh4 wrote:Out of curiosity what was the last native "country record" in the US? (not taxonomic split or invasive in FL)

Chris
Well there was just a NEW species of salamander discovered in the U.S.... does that count? If not, I don't know.

See: Urspelerpes brucei

-Chris

gretzkyrh4
Posts: 661
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:17 am
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by gretzkyrh4 » March 23rd, 2011, 7:57 pm

Thats true. I forgot about Urspelerpes.

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 23rd, 2011, 8:05 pm

gretzkyrh4 wrote:Out of curiosity what was the last native "country record" in the US? (not taxonomic split or invasive in FL)

Chris
Just throwing some out there:

Bogertophis rosaliae in 1984
Coleonyx switaki in 1982 (but I guess there were rumors since the 70s?)

Maybe Xantusia wigginsi? Anyone know when Chionactis palarostris was found in the US?

User avatar
azatrox
Posts: 793
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 5:51 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by azatrox » March 24th, 2011, 2:14 am

"Haven't the borders been herped extensively already? Every year the forum is flooded by posts from SE AZ/SW NM, although I'm not sure if that's where these animals would pop up.

LOL...I promise to ONLY post pics from SE Az or SW NM here if they contain one of the aforementioned animals...I wouldn't want to contribute to any flooding...

-Kris

User avatar
Talusman
Posts: 47
Joined: June 30th, 2010, 12:37 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Talusman » March 24th, 2011, 8:46 am

Image

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 24th, 2011, 8:50 am

klaub x pricei? Where's that from?

Edit: Nevermind, I've seen that snake before. Chiris right?

User avatar
Brandon La Forest
Posts: 244
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 1:23 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Brandon La Forest » March 24th, 2011, 9:49 am

Talusman wrote:Image
Wicked snake man!

User avatar
ratsnakehaven
Posts: 2272
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 am
Location: Southern Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by ratsnakehaven » March 24th, 2011, 10:21 am

Crotalus wrote:
gretzkyrh4 wrote:Out of curiosity what was the last native "country record" in the US? (not taxonomic split or invasive in FL)

Chris
Just throwing some out there:

Bogertophis rosaliae in 1984
Coleonyx switaki in 1982 (but I guess there were rumors since the 70s?)

Maybe Xantusia wigginsi? Anyone know when Chionactis palarostris was found in the US?

There was a guy working with sharp-tailed snakes in Oregon/California a couple years ago that discovered a new species of sharp-tail. His name alludes me at the senior moment, but I'll come with it later, I'm sure.

TC

User avatar
Daryl Eby
Posts: 963
Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Daryl Eby » March 24th, 2011, 10:37 am

ratsnakehaven wrote:There was a guy working with sharp-tailed snakes in Oregon/California a couple years ago that discovered a new species of sharp-tail.
An actual discovery of a new species, or just a split and re-description of a known population?

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 11:18 am

I forgot about Coleonyx fasciatus (or possibly Coleonyx variegatus ssp. Nov.), whatever you want to call them and also about Leptodeira splendida ephippiata, which both range pretty close to the border around Cananea. I think the Leptodeira probably need a big Hylid around, so the res would be the most likely spot. Boas, Trimorphodon tau, Phyllodactylus homolepidurus and Ctenosaura all would be on the Res as well, up to the western and southern foothills of the Baboquivaris and Quinlans. Reality is the area between the Organ Pipe National Monument and the Baboquivaris (incuding the Baboquivaris) has not been well explored AT ALL. Only the Ajo Road (too flat and too far north) and the Kitt Peak Rd. (one slope of a huge mountain range).

Rich: I have heard Jerry Feldner mention Imantodes latistratus from around Benjamin Hill too, but I have searched EVERYWHERE and the only records seem to be from s. Sonora. I imagine that species needs Anolis present to survive, so I have a heard time buying them (or Anolis) ranging north of the Hwy. 16 corridor and not having been discovered yet. That being said, I could be wrong... if someone pulled an anole out of some canyon by Cananea somewhere, I would quickly believe Imantodes up there as well (they make it high in c. Mexico, like 2200 m at times).

JJ: I swear to god that there are rosaceum in New Mexico... there are just too many cattle ponds at high elevations in the Animas for them not to be. They are too close... and Ambystoma can and do crawl through drier desert valleys.

gretzkyrh4: I would say the last country records (at least outside of Texas) were probably Bogertophis (which was not widely accepted) and Coleonyx switaki.

Cheers,

Chris

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 11:21 am

Guys the Bipes in Az is likely BS... aside from the habitat not really being right in the southeastern part of the state (with the exception of maybe west of Phoenix) I think the most important factor is that Bipes tends to be really common where it exists and all the ranch hands/ farmers recognize it immediately. There's enough ranchers in Az that someone would have dug one up by now. Also remember, the closest Bipes to Arizona are in Michoacán!!!!

Your better off looking for Plethodontids around Rich's house... that seems much more likely.

Chris

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 24th, 2011, 11:28 am

Don Cascabel wrote:Guys the Bipes in Az is likely BS... aside from the habitat not really being right in the southeastern part of the state (with the exception of maybe west of Phoenix) I think the most important factor is that Bipes tends to be really common where it exists and all the ranch hands/ farmers recognize it immediately. There's enough ranchers in Az that someone would have dug one up by now. Also remember, the closest Bipes to Arizona are in Michoacán!!!!

Your better off looking for Plethodontids around Rich's house... that seems much more likely.

Chris
KNOWN Bipes species are common where they are KNOWN to exist. It's those UNKNOWN Bipes species from UNKNOWN areas that we're worried about...
That said, I doubt they're in AZ.

User avatar
Kent VanSooy
Posts: 1100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:51 am
Location: Oceanside

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Kent VanSooy » March 24th, 2011, 11:45 am

Thanks Chris and JJ.

joeysgreen
Posts: 523
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 8:09 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by joeysgreen » March 24th, 2011, 1:45 pm

I'm curious, why can't the reserve be herped? Is it any different than asking the farmer to hike his ranch? Are there any native american herpers? My wife is 1/16th alqononite or something like that; perhaps she's got an IN :)

Ian

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 2:44 pm

The Indians don't want you on there, and they have the right to kick you off/ arrest you. That being said, I have herped the res on many occasions. It's just like México (in fact, it looks the same)... if you drive on with a smile on your face and ask people nicely, they will not bother you. However if you are an a$$ about things and start telling them you have a right to do this and a right to do that, they'll kick you off. In my experience, the people from California had a lot easier time on the res. than the people from Arizona. LOL. I wonder why????

I have also herped the Mexican side of that res, but on both sides, I was primarily looking for amphibians.

Cheers,

Chris

User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Natalie McNear » March 24th, 2011, 3:13 pm

Indians can arrest non-Indians simply for being on the reservation? :shock:

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 3:19 pm

Natalia: Yes. If you leave the federal highway, they can arrest you if they see fit. That being said, it's unlikely, as there are no checkpoints or signs pointing that out. What they can do (and often will) is "escort" you off the reservation.

I just re-checked some Sonoran distributions. Leptodeira don't get much north of Hwy. 16 as their range is currently understood. Masticophis mentovarius and Leptophis diplotropsis both get quite a ways up in Sonora though. Considering their distribution in c. México I certainly wouldn't count them on account of cold. Both of those could show up in the Baboquivaris.

Cheers,

Chris

Aaron Mills
Posts: 121
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:54 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Aaron Mills » March 24th, 2011, 3:20 pm

Talusman wrote:Image
Alright, I'll bite. Do we only get a picture with no info? It looks exactly like what I would expect a klauberiXpricei to look like. AZ or Mex?

User avatar
ratsnakehaven
Posts: 2272
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 am
Location: Southern Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by ratsnakehaven » March 24th, 2011, 4:35 pm

Daryl Eby wrote:
ratsnakehaven wrote:There was a guy working with sharp-tailed snakes in Oregon/California a couple years ago that discovered a new species of sharp-tail.
An actual discovery of a new species, or just a split and re-description of a known population?

Well, it was a split from known populations, but resulted in a new species. It was published somewhere. I'll try to look it up.

TC

User avatar
ratsnakehaven
Posts: 2272
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 am
Location: Southern Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by ratsnakehaven » March 24th, 2011, 5:48 pm

ratsnakehaven wrote:
Daryl Eby wrote:
ratsnakehaven wrote:There was a guy working with sharp-tailed snakes in Oregon/California a couple years ago that discovered a new species of sharp-tail.
An actual discovery of a new species, or just a split and re-description of a known population?

Well, it was a split from known populations, but resulted in a new species. It was published somewhere. I'll try to look it up.

TC

The guy's name was Richard Hoyer. He was working with sharp-tailed snakes and discovered a population separate from other sharp-tails that had some unique characteristics. More work and some genetic testing resulted in a new species of sharp-tail...
http://www.cnah.org/pdf_files/1522.pdf

Since then he's discovered a third population which is different, yet, and may result in another distinct form.

:shock: Terry

C. Smith
Posts: 17
Joined: March 19th, 2011, 8:48 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by C. Smith » March 24th, 2011, 5:50 pm

I found a mazatlan toad in tubac last year. It was found on the golf course at tubac resort. I didnt realize what it was at first, thought it was a cane toad. It hit me a few minutes later, but the toad was gone. Since Im such a huge anuran fan, I didnt look for anymore.

Jackson Shedd
Posts: 147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:48 pm

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Jackson Shedd » March 24th, 2011, 8:25 pm

Don Cascabel wrote:. Also remember, the closest Bipes to Arizona are in Michoacán!!!!

Chris
Other than B. biporus in Baja California Norte! Known Bipes that is. I refuse to believe that there are only three spp. existing between Baja and s. Mexico/n. Central America.

Would be cool getting into the area where P. ditmarsi likely enters the U.S., but roads are in short supply there, undoubtedly the reason they have yet to be documented north of the border.

It will be interesting to see what is determined with those C. fasciatus geckos once the study is published.

Jackson Shedd
Posts: 147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:48 pm

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Jackson Shedd » March 24th, 2011, 8:32 pm

ratsnakehaven wrote:
Daryl Eby wrote:
ratsnakehaven wrote:There was a guy working with sharp-tailed snakes in Oregon/California a couple years ago that discovered a new species of sharp-tail.
An actual discovery of a new species, or just a split and re-description of a known population?

The guy's name was Richard Hoyer. He was working with sharp-tailed snakes and discovered a population separate from other sharp-tails that had some unique characteristics. More work and some genetic testing resulted in a new species of sharp-tail...
http://www.cnah.org/pdf_files/1522.pdf

Since then he's discovered a third population which is different, yet, and may result in another distinct form.

:shock: Terry
Hoyer was looking at long-tailed vs. short-tailed Contia for a number of years. It just took a while to get the description out, with support of genetic work only helping validate the research. People had just been throwing both forms into jars and labeling them "Contia tenuis" for years and years before someone came along and took a closer look.

Robert Hansen
Posts: 172
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Robert Hansen » March 24th, 2011, 9:05 pm

The deal with Contia is that Hoyer knew he had something different based on morphology (markedly different tail lengths in adults, with populations of each in close proximity to each other). Quite independently, Chris Feldman was using mtDNA sequences of several reptile species looking for common geographic patterns of differentiation. He obtained a result from a Contia specimen that was quite different from his other samples and thought he had a contamination error. Re-tested the sample and confirmed its distinction from "standard" Contia tenuis. Hoyer and Feldman combined forces to describe C. longicaudae. Neat example that illustrates the hidden biodiversity even in relatively well-studied areas like California. Meanwhile, more salamander species are on the way :)

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 9:30 pm

Jackson: I was referring to direct pathways for dispersal. I think they jumped to Baja, WAAAY back when the southern tip was stuck to Jalisco, and have since adapted to drier climate on the Baja peninsula and have dispersed north on the peninusla, but had no way of getting over to Sonora. Stuff that exists on both sides of the peninsula (Sonora, Chilomeniscus, Lichanura) likely occurred further north and more recently and had their range split in two when Baja split off from the mainland. That being said, I guess stuff can get to Arizona the Baja route (C. mitchelli) but would probably still be present in n. Baja to this date.

Again, my vote goes NO on Bipes in Arizona/ Sonora/ Sinaloa. That being said, inland valleys in Nayarit and Jalisco could produce something, as could coastal Colima, Jalisco or Morelos, Puebla and OAxaca.

C. smith: Are you Colin? If so, you could have at least gotten a documention shot you nagger. Where the hell is Tubac anyway???

Cheers,

Chris

User avatar
azatrox
Posts: 793
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 5:51 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by azatrox » March 24th, 2011, 10:48 pm

Tubac is in Santa Cruz County, Arizona. North of Nogales.

-Kris

User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Don Cascabel » March 24th, 2011, 10:59 pm

Yeah I found it on a map. That area could certainly have B. mazatlanensis, as could the area between the Pajaritos and the Baboquivaris, as well as the res. It strikes me as odd that the species hasn't been found in the US. Then again, not many people looking at toads down there. Or are there???

User avatar
azatrox
Posts: 793
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 5:51 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by azatrox » March 24th, 2011, 11:50 pm

I can't say I've seen too many people with "toads on the brain" down there...There's certainly plenty of opportunity for "toad-minded" individuals though (particularly during the monsoon). Those things are ALL OVER the roads.

Another thing for me to keep an eye out for when I'm down that way...

-Kris

Crotalus
Posts: 180
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:05 am

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by Crotalus » March 25th, 2011, 5:52 am

Don Cascabel wrote: Again, my vote goes NO on Bipes in Arizona/ Sonora/ Sinaloa. That being said, inland valleys in Nayarit and Jalisco could produce something, as could coastal Colima, Jalisco or Morelos, Puebla and OAxaca.
What's the logic that says they can do deserts near San Ignacio in Baja and "inland valleys in Nayarit" but Sinaloa is a no go?

User avatar
jonathan
Posts: 3611
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:39 am
Contact:

Re: Possible Country Records for the US

Post by jonathan » March 25th, 2011, 7:46 am

gretzkyrh4 wrote:Out of curiosity what was the last native "country record" in the US? (not taxonomic split or invasive in FL)

Chris
U. brucei wins, but several of the recent slender species really were new population discoveries and not just splits. I think the Inyo Slenders, Desert Slenders, San Gabriel Mountains Slenders, Kern Canyon Slenders, Tehachapi Slenders, and Kern Plateau Slenders are all species that were discovered between the 1960s and the 1990s. The Breckenridge Mountain Slender that hasn't been officially described yet was a newly discovered species too.

I think the Scott Bar Salamander was fairly recent too. And the Sandstone Night Lizard as well.

Post Reply