Hognose Snake Venomus?

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Gator
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Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Gator » June 20th, 2011, 1:00 pm

Hey yall,
So, I was talking to someone the other day and they said that a Hognose snake was venomous. I told them that from what I learned and know, they were not. They told me they had read it had some venom to it. When I went online and looked around, I saw several sites saying they were but it would not harm a human unless they were allergic and then they may swell up. Something about them having a Duvernoy gland? Here is a site I found on it, http://www.anapsid.org/duvernoygland.html , So what do yall think?

Steve

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KingCam
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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by KingCam » June 20th, 2011, 1:14 pm

Hognoses are indeed mildly venomous. They are rear fanged, meaning they'd have to basically wrap their mouth around a finger to inject any venom (from what I've come to understand). According to most of the posts I've read on this board hognoses rarely (read: almost never) bite. I wouldn't know because I have not yet managed to find one :cry: :oops:

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Nick
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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Nick » June 20th, 2011, 1:27 pm

KingCam wrote:According to most of the posts I've read on this board hognoses rarely (read: almost never) bite.
I got bit by a wild eastern hog a few days ago. It drew a little blood but otherwise there was no reaction.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Gator » June 20th, 2011, 1:42 pm

I knew they were not to aggressive and would not be harmful if it did take a bite. The only one I have seen was in my herpetology class that someone brought in and later released after we looked at it. I just didn't know they had any venom since they are listed as non-venomous.

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Mike VanValen
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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Mike VanValen » June 20th, 2011, 3:00 pm

Their venom is meant to take out toads, not humans. But I have heard of several mild reactions in human bites. Gartersnakes have also been known to cause a reaction. I had some swelling from a garter bite about 18 years ago.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by ChrisNM » June 20th, 2011, 4:16 pm

http://www.herpnet.net/bite/

And to quote someone from another forum regarding anapsid.org....
Melissa Kaplan should be avoided.

That particular page is just a list of information taken from books written by Mader and Frye, but Kaplan herself is poisonous. She's a hardcore animal rights activist, masquerading from time to time as a pet advocate. She has flagrantly stated that she believes animals, specifically reptiles, should never be kept in captivity. She has no herpetology related credentials, she has minimal personal experience (mostly a list of iguanas she has abused) and her website is riddled with misinformation, inaccuracies and animal rights propaganda. Any individual page, any individual piece of information taken from her website stands equal chances of being situationally accurate or egregiously wrong (and dangerous to any animal subjected to it).

She's the enemy of pet owners, of animal lovers, of herpetoculturalists and herpetologists alike. She aligns herself with organizations which want to ban all medical testing, make eating meat illegal, close zoos, outlaw insulin production and leather clothing and which want to end pet ownership.

Her website should not be opened. Her advice should not be sought. Her information should not be treated as credible unless externally verified by an unbiased source.

In short, Melissa Kaplan is one of the worst public figures associated with pet ownership alive today and it's best not to post links to her website.

Interestingly, the state of NM views heterodon as venomous per their importation regs. As a result, they are listed as Group 3 importation animals, one must have a permit in order to import them into the state. Before such can take place though one also has to have, among other things, a containment plan. What's ironic is you can catch the freak'n snake, mexican, plains, and eastern, within the state without a permit unless you reach their bag limit for collection. :crazyeyes:

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Don Becker
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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Don Becker » June 20th, 2011, 5:19 pm

I was bitten numerous times by an eastern hog I was caring for a few years back. I never had any reaction. My female mexican hog has bitten my fingers a few times when I was handling her. One time I had mild swelling at the bite site, but that may have just been swelling due to puncture wounds. My southern hog just tried to eat my finger the other day, and I had no reaction other than pain because he got the fang right down on the side of my finger nail.

Just my experiences.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Gator » June 20th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Well I am glad I don't believe everything I read on-line. That is why after I hear something I like to research it by asking herpetology professors or anybody that does have experience. Thanks for letting me know about her. I am hoping to find one of these in the wild soon. I am fascinated by their defenses. Also, that is interesting about their status in New Mexico but your right, that is confusing.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by ChrisNM » June 20th, 2011, 6:03 pm

Gator wrote:That is why after I hear something I like to research it by asking herpetology professors...
Careful on that one. My herp prof at NMSU had a hatchling desert box turtle housed in a 10 gallon tank with only a fluorescent light (don't recall itf it was a UV fluoro, most likely not...) on it and no heat if I recall. The tank had a thin layer of fine grain sand and the turtle was fed pill bugs. The turtle had pretty significant signs of MDB being expressed through its shell, particularly the marginal scutes being sharply curved up.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Jason Ksepka » June 20th, 2011, 6:11 pm

I have first hand experience. First of all they are not "rear-fanged" as typically defined. They have enlarged rear teeth designed to pop a poad that is puffed up with air. The teeth may be grooved (gila monster style) to give a channel to allow the venom from the duvrenoy's gland to get into the bite during chewing. Now to my experience....

Years ago, I had a good number of Western Hogs, I had a little 10 inch male that I especially liked. While feeding him a thawed fuzzy he bit the side of my finger when he missed the mouse. Undeterred, he figured he might as well just swallow me.

Well, I am not bothered by harmless snake bites, and my Aunt was in the kitchen. She is the type of woman that if you say the word "snake", she leaves the house. I thought the little guy was just as cute a all getout because he was just determined to eat me starting at my finger. I decided I would show my Aunt that her biggest fear, being bitten by a snake is no big deal. So I let him chew on me (key concept), while I was showing my aunt how harmless he was.

Well, within about 10 minutes, the band-aid that I put on had popped off. Followed by the next one popping off again in a few minutes. I realized then that it was due to swelling of my finger. Within a few hours my hand was quite swollen. By morning, my arm up to my elbow was very very swollen, looking like it would burst open. By the evening it had progressed to my shoulder and stopped there, but remained extremely swollen for 3 days total.

I had no necrosis, nor any kind of damage that I could perceive. There was no pain, just severe swelling. My parents were terrified, but, I thought it was interesting, and only was bothered by the lack of use of my arm for those days.

Important to note is that this snake was a captive born and raised individual that was accustomed to me feeding it. The bite I received was a feeding response, NOT an aggressive response! The key difference is that the animal chewed on me for probably 5-10 minutes. This is an extreme case as anyone receiving a bite from any snake is not likely to ever be chewed on this long, and it is true that hognose snakes generally strike with a closed mouth during defense displays, and do not use biting as a defense. Instead they first try to bluff aggressive behavior, that failing, they puke and poop on themselves to add a strong aroma to the "dead" snake laying before the would-be predator. Below is the only image I have, a terrible scan of a pic I took. I think it was around 3 hours or so into the fun little episode...
Image

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by reptilist » June 20th, 2011, 7:24 pm

They have enlarged rear teeth designed to pop a poad that is puffed up with air.
Have to disagree with that conjecture. They have grooved rear fangs that deliver venom. Not for "popping toads".... haha... That would be a bizarre tangent in the evolution of reptile fangs.... I don't believe it is accepted as true anymore.

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Re: Hognose Snake Venomus?

Post by Saunders » June 21st, 2011, 7:54 am

Just to shed some light on these enlarged rear teeth everyone mentions I will share the following to give those who don't know and idea.

39 inch Female Eastern Hognose
Image

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