Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

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Biker Dave
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Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 12th, 2011, 10:07 pm

THREE CORONADO NATIONAL FOREST RANGER DISTRICTS REOPENING

July 12th 4:30pm

Areas Affected by Wildfire and the Sierra Vista Ranger District Remain Closed, Fire Restrictions in Effect for all Open Areas

TUCSON, AZ (July 12, 2011) – Three ranger districts on the Coronado National Forest will reopen July 12. The Santa Catalina Ranger District previously reopened. The Sierra Vista Ranger District remains closed. All open areas remain under Stage II Fire Restrictions.

Portions of the Douglas Ranger District are open. The Chiricahua Mountains remain closed to provide for public safety related to flooding and road reconstruction or stabilization following the Horseshoe 2 Fire. All roads, trails, and developed campgrounds within the Chiricahua Mountain Range north of Forest Road 74 (Tex Canyon/Rucker roads) remain closed. Within this area, the following roads will be open for public use as long as safety conditions permit:
•FR 42 East of Onion Saddle (Cave Creek Canyon)
•FR 42A – Herb Martyr Road
•FR 42B – between Portal and Paradise .
•FR 42D between Onion Saddle and Barfoot Junction
•FR 357 from Barfoot Junction to Barfoot Park
•FR 622 – South Fork of Cave Creek is open to pedestrians only.
•FR 74 – Tex Canyon to Rucker Canyon Rd
•Trail 280 – Silver Peak Trail
•Vista Point Trail
•Cave Creek Nature Trail
•Crystal Cave Trail

This closure will remain in effect until October 15, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

Portions of the Nogales Ranger District are open. To allow for public safety, Pena Blanca Lake remains closed, as does Forest Road 39 from Highway 289 (at Pena Blanca Lake) to Forest Road 4186 (approximately one to one and one-half miles east of Ruby, Arizona). This closure will remain in effect until July 31, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

The Safford Ranger District is open.

All open areas of the Coronado National Forest remain under Stage II Fire Restrictions.

Current prohibitions on all ranger districts of the Coronado National Forest are:

•Building, maintaining, attending or using a fire, campfire, charcoal, coal, or wood stove fire, including within a developed recreation site or improved site. Exception: The use of petroleum-fueled stoves, lanterns, or heating devices is allowed so long as such devices meet the fire underwriter’s specifications for safety.
•Smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle or building, a developed recreation site, or while stopped in an area at least three feet in diameter, that is barren or cleared of all flammable material.
•Using an explosive.
•Operating an internal combustion engine. Exception: Motor vehicles.
•Welding or operating acetylene or other torch with open flame.
•Possessing or using a motor vehicle off National Forest System roads. Exceptions: Parking in an area devoid of vegetation within 10 feet of the roadway, or parking in Forest Service developed campgrounds and trailheads.
•Discharging a firearm, except while engaged in a lawful hunt pursuant to state, federal, or tribal laws and regulations.


Fire restrictions remain in effect until July 18, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 14th, 2011, 8:55 am

Why post this? just curious......

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reptilist
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by reptilist » July 14th, 2011, 12:08 pm

Because youth want to know!

Other youth...

And me.

RAK
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by RAK » July 14th, 2011, 12:45 pm

Why not post it? it is straight from the forest service website - just curious

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originalsupahman
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by originalsupahman » July 14th, 2011, 4:22 pm

Why question that it is posted? Can one not simply acknowledge the information and continue in other pursuits?

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 14th, 2011, 8:44 pm

I posted it because I have been getting pm's from out of staters asking me what is open.....

Wayne_MO
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Wayne_MO » July 15th, 2011, 7:39 am

Thank you for posting this! It is very helpful in making my travel plans from Missouri to Arizona in late July-early August. Clearly I will have to go to some plan Bs (something that happens most trips anyways) as some of the areas I wanted to explore look like they will most likely still be off limits.

I'm glad to know ahead of time rather than come up on closure signs and then having to change plans then and there.

Thank you again for the information! :thumb:

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 15th, 2011, 9:36 am

Biker Dave wrote:I posted it because I have been getting pm's from out of staters asking me what is open.....
well this just validates how I feel about most outa-staters. LAZY

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 15th, 2011, 10:16 am

This morning I received this info from Loni at the Portal Lodge...

Even though I don't normally post location info...this, in my opinion, is helpful in showing what the status of Chiri's is. It looks like a rough year for the Chiri's.
1. Yes, we are open from 7:30am-7:00pm seven days a week.

2. Yes, the fire is out however we waiting to see how the rains effect the watersheds (i.e. flooding)

3. At this time some of the areas are open

-(edited due to popular "flaming")


I need to let you know that due to the possible flooding throughout the area campgrounds are closed and most if not all trails are closed. Also I have heard the some of the roads going over the mountains have already been washed out.

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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by KevColubrid » July 15th, 2011, 11:32 am

Out of staters are not the only herpers who are lazy. I'm sure you have plenty of in staters that do the same thing, every state does. I take offense to a generalization like that. I will be making a trip out to Arizona this year, with Wayne_MO, and nothing about our planning for the trip could be considered "lazy." We've done our fair share of research (the trip has been three years in the making), and actually made it a point to avoid the well known areas, because honestly, there's not a lot of fun in that for me. I'd rather take a chance on an experimental area that I found on my own, and have it pay off, than photograph the same snake that four other people have found that day/night. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I consider myself to be a very ethical herper, and I can say the same of Wayne. We are very respectful of both animals, and habitat, understand the importance of being tight lipped when it comes to localities, and guess what, we're also from out of state. I also won't be rushing to the computer the second the trip's over to post ten thousand pictures of everything we find. Just saying, we're not all bad. I know many other herpers who fit this mold who are also from out of state.

Kevin

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 15th, 2011, 11:54 am

This horse has been beat time and time again, if you find something I said offensive you don't know me very well ;) "most" was a key word there.....

-Brandon-

RAK
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by RAK » July 15th, 2011, 1:03 pm

Nah, I won't be rushing home and posting either. I quite posting most everything several years ago. Instead I will be giving live updates via FB and Twitter, lol. Believe me I know about keeping localities hush hush. I just think sometimes it is taken overboard, like being protective over posting about the forest opening. Some locals are gone and never to be the same, throw the newbies a bone with those locals so that they can LEARN.

anyway you are right, dead horse is beaten

KevColubrid
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by KevColubrid » July 15th, 2011, 1:27 pm

Noted. Could someone please tell me where to find a night snake though? If I don't see one, I think I'll just DIE. :mrgreen:

Kevin

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 15th, 2011, 2:18 pm

I think if everyone who got on here and posted actually lived here or lived here long enough to see the change that has happened there would be a little more understanding on both sides of the "Horse". Most people collect FYI....There was actually a case similar to what you see every time this year a while back where someone was like "Hey im on my way out to AZ can I get some help" acted like such a nice guy. Turns out he was a commercial collector, when he got called out the post got deleted. Not saying that about you guys but there are enough wolves in sheeps clothing out here that I would be hesitant to post anything at all. BkrDave just broke our rule by posting about the Chiris...You can count me out of this NAFHA club if we can even follow the rules in place....just saying.

-Brandon-

KevColubrid
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by KevColubrid » July 15th, 2011, 4:24 pm

Brandon,
I can definitely understand where you're coming from, you get the same thing in virtually every state. For the record, I'm also against posting specific locals in an open forum like this one, for the very reason you just mentioned. But how are posting discrete photographs in the same ballpark as posting specific locals? Just curious.

Kevin

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Fundad
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Fundad » July 15th, 2011, 4:49 pm

You can count me out of this NAFHA club if we can even follow the rules in place....just saying.
Hey B,

These forums are open to non NAFHA members, you cant hold it against NAFHA if someone posts a locality. As if they
do so they break the rules..

NAFHA is more than a "club". Its also the database, which is going to be the most used and biggest herp database in the world.... And it is going to contribute to helping the conservation of many many species.

Fundad

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 15th, 2011, 5:31 pm

You are correct Fundad my bad, I do believe the person who broke the rule is on the board for this chapter so we are both right. Irrelevant now however. I don't post any pics so that should tell you my stance on it. Is what it is flood is gonna happen every year. Anyway enough yappin, I'm going out, ya'll should be too! Go fill that database :)

Brandon

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Fundad
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Fundad » July 15th, 2011, 5:39 pm

I'm going out, ya'll should be too! Go fill that database :)
Good Luck.. :D

Fundad

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 17th, 2011, 3:28 pm

OK... now that everyone is pissed at me......

I was merely transfering info that was sent to me from the folks who run the Portal Lodge.
This information is also found on the Coronado National Forest website (which I, nor any other NAFHA officer, cannot edit).

I will self edit this previously published information following sending this posting. Now back to our regularly scheduled posts.....

Those who wish to personally flog me may do so at their earliest convenience via pm or in person.

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azatrox
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by azatrox » July 18th, 2011, 11:30 am

This again? Really?

I get not disclosing locales on a public forum for all to see....I support that 100%...I totally get being conscious of who you're sharing info with...I'm all about being sensitive with regard to "in demand" species (and all species really)...All that I'm good with.

But really? The Coronado info is available for all to see....It wasn't put up on the Forest Service website by a "herper"...It's information that's available to ANYONE that has a computer and an Internet connection...The same way range maps are available to anyone with a library card. Are we going to admonish the Forest Service for publicizing the fact that Coronado is open now?

This is a battle that will be fought every year...douchebags (and no, they're not all from out of state) will continue to rape and pilfer sensitive areas...no matter how tight a lid you try to keep on Arizona, the fact is that there's always going to be a certain segment of the douchebag population that will take advantage....Just the way it is.

All one can do is be careful who they associate with and respond accordingly. People aren't going to stop coming to Az because a few of the locals are upset because "their" areas are getting traffic....not gonna happen.

It sure would be great if everyone that came here was ethical and honest....but not everyone is, so as a responsible naturalist my responsibility starts with choosing carefully who I associate with and who I don't. It's NOT my responsibility to admonish others for sharing public information put out by a government agency on a public website.

What I find pretty ironic in this whole mess is the very same "separatist" people would be hitting up contacts in other states if they were to herp them....But apparently that doesn't go both ways...It's all "herper BS" and it's all quite we todd ed.

Give it a rest already.

-Kris

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reptilist
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by reptilist » July 18th, 2011, 1:20 pm

I wonder how we'd treat Karl Kauffeld if he was still alive?

Biker Dave... I'm not mad at you buddy. Everyone knows where the Chiris are and what lives there. BFD.
:beer:

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Brandon La Forest
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Brandon La Forest » July 19th, 2011, 1:29 am

No one is mad at Dave and Kris this was already quashed so why don't you put that thesaurus away and relax...

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Crazins
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Crazins » July 19th, 2011, 1:37 am

Can't we all just get along?

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lepidus61
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by lepidus61 » July 19th, 2011, 3:28 am

Brandon La Forest wrote:Why post this? just curious......
I have no intention of getting into a long discussion on this topic, just a few questions for you.
Have you never herped out of the state of Arizona?
What harm does it do to give someone vague information? An area that someone can find with a field guide and a map is not giving locality.
Every state that has a high species count of reptiles has a inflow of out of state herpers, just
like every state that has a high population of game animals has a high inflow of out of state hunters, in my home state we have a high number of turkey and deer hunters each year, i don't particulary like this but this is still the United STATES of America.
Have you never collected a animal before? I donot condone commercial collection or collecting to pad someones pockets but to collect a animal for personal use, we have all done it.
I see nothing wrong with Daves post, public info.

Clark :D

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azatrox
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by azatrox » July 19th, 2011, 4:16 am

...and Kris this was already quashed so why don't you put that thesaurus away and relax...

:lol:

-Kris

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azatrox
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by azatrox » July 19th, 2011, 4:17 am

Can't we all just get along?

By the by, did you hear that Mr. Rodney King was arrested yet AGAIN for DUI? :crazyeyes:

I don't think police brutality was an issue this time...

-Kris

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Fundad
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Fundad » July 19th, 2011, 5:02 am

Image


Fundad

RAK
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by RAK » July 19th, 2011, 6:03 am

PS. Most of the Sierra Vista District has reopened.

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 19th, 2011, 10:48 pm

The Rangers at the office in Mesa by Falcon Field told me today that all of Tonto NF is open. Fire restrictions are in effect though, so no campfires etc.

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » July 19th, 2011, 11:04 pm

This info is directly from the NFS website. IMO no sensitive locations are exposed ....

Dave
SIERRA VISTA RANGER DISTRICT REOPENS


However, Areas Affected by Monument Fire Remain Closed

All Districts....Stage II Fire Restrictions have now expired on the Coronado (July 18th) . Please be careful with campfires, never leave unattended and insure your campfire is fully extinguished before leaving the campsite.


Most of the Sierra Vista Ranger District is now open. The following area remains closed at the Coronado National Forest Boundary starting at Ash Canyon area and north to Carr Canyon area. All roads and trails in the area are closed. (.....Edited by Dave) This specific Sierra Vista Ranger District closure shall remain in effect until August 20, 2011 or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

Portions of the Douglas Ranger District are open. The Chiricahua Mountains remain closed to provide for public safety related to flooding and road reconstruction or stabilization following the Horseshoe 2 Fire. All roads, trails, and developed campgrounds within the Chiricahua Mountain Range north of Forest Road 74 (Tex Canyon/Rucker roads) remain closed. Within this area, the following roads will be open for public use as long as safety conditions permit:
•FR 42 East of Onion Saddle (Cave Creek Canyon)
•FR 42A – Herb Martyr Road
•FR 42B – between Portal and Paradise .
•FR 42D between Onion Saddle and Barfoot Junction
•FR 357 from Barfoot Junction to Barfoot Park
•FR 622 – South Fork of Cave Creek is open to pedestrians only.
•FR 74 – Tex Canyon to Rucker Canyon Rd
•Trail 280 – Silver Peak Trail
•Vista Point Trail
•Cave Creek Nature Trail
•Crystal Cave Trail

This closure will remain in effect until October 15, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

Portions of the Nogales Ranger District are open. To allow for public safety, Pena Blanca Lake remains closed, as does Forest Road 39 from Highway 289 (at Pena Blanca Lake) to Forest Road 4186 (approximately one to one and one-half miles east of Ruby, Arizona). This closure will remain in effect until July 31, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is earlier.

The Safford Ranger District is open.

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » August 4th, 2011, 7:02 pm

This will be the final update for this season (unless something drastic happens)
TUCSON, AZ (July 22, 2011) – Due to precipitation received across the Coronado
National Forest, fire restrictions have been lifted on all ranger districts on the Forest.
Rainfall has been sporadic, leaving portions of the forest dry. Visitors are advised to use
caution with fire and never leave a fire unattended. Fires should be cold to the touch
before departure.


As a reminder, all ranger districts on the Coronado have reopened, with area closures in
place on some districts affected by wildfire and the potential for flooding.


Portions of the Douglas Ranger District are open. The Chiricahua Mountains remain
closed to provide for public safety related to flooding and road reconstruction or
stabilization following the Horseshoe 2 Fire. All forest roads (except those listed below),
trails, and developed campgrounds within the Chiricahua Mountain Range north of Forest
Road 74 (Tex Canyon/Rucker roads) remain closed. Within this area, the following
roads will be open for public use as long as safety conditions permit:


FR 42 East of Onion Saddle (Cave Creek Canyon)
FR 42A – Herb Martyr Road
FR 42B – between Portal and Paradise.
FR 622 – South Fork of Cave Creek is open to pedestrians only.
FR 74 – Tex Canyon to Rucker Canyon Rd.

Trail 280 – Silver Peak Trail
Vista Point Trail
Cave Creek Nature Trail
Crystal Cave Trail


This closure will remain in effect until October 15, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is
earlier. For more information please call the district office at (520) 364-3468.




The Nogales Ranger District is open. Pena Blanca Lake is now OPEN, as of August 1st.

For more information please call the district office at (520) 281-2296.


Portions of the Sierra Vista Ranger District are open. Due to damage from wildfire and
potential flooding, the district is closed at the Coronado National Forest Boundary
starting at Ash Canyon area and north to Carr Canyon area. All roads and trails in the
area are closed. Forest road (FR) 59 (Ash Canyon), FR 796 (Stump Canyon), FR 367
(Hunter Canyon), FR 56 (Miller Canyon), FR 386 (Carr Canyon) are closed. This
closure will remain in effect until August 20, 2011, or until rescinded, whichever is
earlier. For more information please call the district office at (520) 378-0311.


The Safford Ranger District is open. For more information please call the district office
at (928) 428-4150.


The Santa Catalina Ranger District is open. For more information please call the district
office at (520) 749-8700.

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JimH
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by JimH » August 5th, 2011, 3:46 am

As a non-resident of Az, but a herper who has herped and lived in the southwest since the early 70's, I can understand the need for secrecy and not giving away locale info for fear of poaching, but honestly, if anybody wanted to poach, and they did their homework really well, they could find out the info they needed without having to come to this forum or any others as detailed range info is in the literature for every species found in the state. So while none of us really want to be the one that "spills the beans" on a honey hole for herping, the beans were spilt many, many years ago.

Jimi
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Jimi » August 5th, 2011, 8:19 am

So while none of us really want to be the one that "spills the beans" on a honey hole for herping, the beans were spilt many, many years ago.
Agreed, and well enough said. People are getting kind of nutty about the secrecy.

Another issue I find quite troubling is the casual and growing use of the word "poach". It has specific legal meaning (including: taking fish or wildlife out of season, in a closed area, by unlawful means, in excess of bag or seasonal limits, or without a license), but its popular definition seems to have grown to encompass legal activities.

If someone buys their license and otherwise plays by the rules (e.g., doesn't use a crowbar, illegal traps or lights, etc; stays in-season, under the limit, and out of closed areas, etc), and harvests an animal, they are not a poacher. They are a hunter. Period. Same as a deer or dove hunter who plays by the rules. You may lament the fact that an animal is now "biologically dead" to the source population, but the legal hunter is not a poacher and is within his/her legal rights.

I just worry we're on a slippery slope to PETA-dom. Wildlife are a public trust resource. In our nation's culture we manage them as valuable for their own sake, and also for people's use and enjoyment, to the extent that can be done without jeopardizing the perpetual viability of the wildlife population. Some of us may only look and take pictures - that's one legitimate method of use and enjoyment. Some may harvest an individual animal or two now and then. That's also a legitimate method of use and enjoyment, and is not a threat to the population. If you think bag or possession limits for a certain species need to be reduced, or seasons need to be tweaked, or an area needs to be closed, because current levels of legal utilization are a threat to the population, there's a process for talking about that with your state wildlife agency. Use it.

The most important thing (besides population viability) is that we all have access, within reason, and within legal limits. Isn't that what pissed so many of us off about the Texas road ban? Some people, serving as some Texans' representatives, took away virtually all access to an entire class of wildlife, without a valid conservation reason. Let's not do that to each other. Let's not try to diminish each other's legal rights, especially by mob rule. I'm not calling out any individual here, just making an appeal to the community.

Cheers,
Jimi

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Biker Dave
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by Biker Dave » August 5th, 2011, 7:04 pm

OMG! Jimi said the most vile of four letter words ....... PETA!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :cry: :lol: :cry: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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JimH
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by JimH » August 6th, 2011, 3:36 am

Jimi, that was well said.

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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Forest Closure Updates - Check back often for updates

Post by ratsnakehaven » August 6th, 2011, 5:00 pm

Yaaa, poachers know their stuff. Most don't even look at this forum, I'm sure. I think what we're really guarded against are the hundreds of lurkers, many of whom have yet to visit AZ, and who would like nothing better than to be told exactly where the hard to find herps are. Most of those are probably nice folks, but if even 10% are collectors, the best spots would be hit really hard. Most of us are protecting against giving exact locales on a public forum.

We are pretty friendly people here and have a wealth of info. We help visitors a lot with general info. For those who don't know much about AZ there's a lot to learn about the basics.

Regards....Terry Cox/AZ Chapter Sec.

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