Tracking snakes by scent

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bewilderbeast
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Tracking snakes by scent

Post by bewilderbeast »

So several times in the field I have been in areas that seemed to smell strongly of snake musk... I usually do find snakes once I make this observation, perhaps because I become more determined in my search once I think the area is a good one for snake activity.

In Death Valley I have investigated several burrow entrances with C. cerastes tracks leading into them and noted that there was a distinctly snakey odor emanating from within.

I just picked up Hubbs' Rattlesnake book (found randomly in the camping store in Oakhurst, CA). And read that he had experienced similar phenomena with C. ruber.


Just wondered if anyone else has ever found snakes by using their nose?

I'm thinking of training a beagle to sniff out herps.
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Chris Smith
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Chris Smith »

People do train dogs to find herps (e.g. snakes and turtles). USFWS has used them for brown tree snake and Burmese python detection.

-Chris
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Mike VanValen
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Mike VanValen »

Yes, I have sniffed out snakes several times. The last time was a few weeks ago with a couple of eastern garters.
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by muskiemagnet »

i know what you guys/gals are talking about. i'm leaning towards a plant with similar smell. the scent was too strong to be a snake.
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Jason B
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Jason B »

I've heard many locals in eastern Kentucky and Tennessee mention the smell of cucumbers in association with copperheads being in proximity. I personally have never smelled a snake before I saw it.

For many decades dogs have been employed to find box turtles for researchers.
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DaneConley
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by DaneConley »

I have smelt them, but I suck at pin pointing the scent.
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Andrew G
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Andrew G »

A few weeks ago I was flipping a few boards I found near my house, and I noticed that my hand smelled like I had been musked by a snake afterward. I did not see any snakes at this spot. If the temperatures would drop below 105 degrees I would go check it out and see if I can find anything!
bewilderbeast
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by bewilderbeast »

There is one time in particular that I was in an area that has a heavy population of coastal gartersnakes. there were dozens moving about in the open and under the brush and many more in large groups under AC. the entire time I was poking around it wreaked of garter musk. In this case I didn't FIND the snakes by smell but it did smell heavily of snakes
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Mike VanValen
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Mike VanValen »

I have to add that more often than not, I smell the musk but never seen the snakes.
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Tim Borski
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Tim Borski »

A couple years ago, after some exceptionally cold weather, I was driving slowly along a dirt track that bordered a huge, plowed field. As I was driving (windows down) I smelled something dead. I’d found a few dead Pythons the day before by walking edges and flushing vultures and then going over to inspect what they’d been on. The snakes, at least to my nose, had a fairly distinct smell and it’s what got my attention while driving along the road. On the way back, I smelled it again and stopped, couldn’t smell it and backed up. There it was again. The field was BIG acreage and even though freshly plowed I couldn’t see the source. I looked directly up wind with my binos and way out there, 300 yards or so, I saw a couple tufts of green grass so I figured “what the heck” I’ll go look. While I was walking directly towards the grass I lost the scent cone. Moving to my right while facing the wind I found it again only it wasn’t in line with the grass and as I said the field was clean and freshly plowed. Walking towards the grass I lost it again. Back to the right…there it was…

In any event, I followed my nose instead of vision and what my brain was telling me to do. As I neared the spot, I saw that the “green” I saw was the far left end of a long and narrow strip of low lying ground that hadn’t been plowed, probably due to the fact it stayed too wet most of the time. The grass was all brown, matted and invisible from the truck. Right in the middle of the strip (but not visible from vehicle) lay a big, dead, adult python. It's the only snake I've found by scent.
herpfriend
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by herpfriend »

i've heard people here in Missouri say when they smell cucumbers in the woods copperheads are near. I have also smelled a copperhead musk like smell while in the woods, but never saw a snake.
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PNWHerper
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by PNWHerper »

Yep. Have used smell to find snakes, but most often I use the scent to locate area frequented by a snake... i.e. a favorite board or other cover object. Another words, I find spots that I can recheck on another trip to locate a snake. The larger, heavier snake species seem to have much stronger smells. Scent tracking in western WA can be tough though, given the amount of rain we get and how scents can get washed away.

Cool topic... a different way of tracking, but useful nonetheless. Actually, a very complimentary practice to tracking in the more traditional sense... looking for track and sign. I find that locating spots heavily used by side-blotched lizards and often, other lizard species is easy once you recognize their scat and know it tends to be found most frequently on and around their favorite sunning/displaying sites.

I do regularly find deer and porcupine by scent. I have also found the ponds with frog spawn in them have very particular "frog egg mass" smell to them.
RobK

Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by RobK »

I quit tracking snakes by scent after getting a bad case of poison ivy all over my face. Which, incidently, is why I have to wear that bandana on my face. My dog, Percy (Border Collie), can definitely sniff 'em out though.
Bold Cub
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Bold Cub »

I have found garters and watersnakes. My dog sniff out critters for me.
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SnakeStick
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by SnakeStick »

I smelled my first copperhead of the year before I saw it. My dogs definitely know a snakes scent. Heck, they are even afraid of the skin...
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chrish
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by chrish »

I have found snakes on a few occasions (when I wasn't otherwise looking) by following a scent.

I found my first Coluber taeniatus in a hollow tree that I would have walked by without looking at. As I walked by, however, I got the distinct smell of snake musk and decided to go look in the tree. Clearly the snake had been out and had fled into the tree as I approached, musking as he fled.

I was once collecting insects in the west TX desert with a group of students when I smell the distinct perfume of rattlesnake musk. Nearby in the open stony desert was a large piece of plywood with a rock holding it down. To the amazement of the entomology folks, I boldly predicted that there would be an atrox under the board since we were on top of a flat hilltop with no large rocks, it couldn't be anything else. I reached down to flip the rock off and lift the board. Right as I reached the remove the rock, I touched the very distinctive texture of a snakes body under the rock! It immediately buzzed and I yanked my hand back!!! I carefully flipped the rock then and found a spectacular bright pink Rock Rattlesnake Crotalus lepidus lepidus under it......then I went back to camp and changed my underwear. :oops:

I have been musked by snakes but failed to find them. Bogertophis subocularis have a very distinctive must and I have walked up on a fresh cloud of musk several times but never found the bogey associated.
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KingCam
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by KingCam »

herpfriend wrote:i've heard people here in Missouri say when they smell cucumbers in the woods copperheads are near. I have also smelled a copperhead musk like smell while in the woods, but never saw a snake.
I've heard that, too. I have not yet experienced it.
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chrish
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by chrish »

KingCam wrote:
herpfriend wrote:i've heard people here in Missouri say when they smell cucumbers in the woods copperheads are near. I have also smelled a copperhead musk like smell while in the woods, but never saw a snake.
I've heard that, too. I have not yet experienced it.
I've had the cr$p musked out of me by copperheads, and I can't say it ever made think mmmm....cucumbers.
I wonder if we could capture copperhead musk and use it to scent hand lotion? I mean if Cucumber smell works for body lotion....
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Jeremy Westerman
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Jeremy Westerman »

I can't say I have located any snakes only by smell other than dead ones but I certainly can confirm denning or favored locations just by smell. I have smelled snake and slowed down and later sighted critters that may have been responsible for the smells so I guess that sorta counts. I love the little tracking stories left behind; a sidewinder "j" here, a shed skin under a rock edge there, a belly crawl mark into a rodent hole, a long dead snake under cover (hmmm did he die in his bed peacefully?)
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Brandon D
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Brandon D »

an old friend of mine the late Mike Chambers said that he always smelled c.h.horridus before he saw them, I believed him after he sniffed out one that was pretty much hidden between some osage orange trees, and then quickly sniffed out one behind us a lil further down the hill, which makes a lil since with horridus, I dont have the nose for it, I couldnt destinguish the smell, I think dogs could easily track snakes, especially during spring and fall when a lot phermones are being released, it would probably be fairly easy to train certain dogs to do this, but what would be the fun in that lol
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Brian Hubbs
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Brian Hubbs »

So...Miller's Mtn Sports in Oakhurst sells another book...nice. I have also found a few zonata by noticing their musk smell first...
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Jason B
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Jason B »

While walking through a drying wetland I tracked the smell of death to a puddle of dead, gooey tadpoles. A large cottonmouth was gorging itself on their remains. That's the closest I've come to finding a snake by scent.
bewilderbeast
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by bewilderbeast »

Brian Hubbs wrote:So...Miller's Mtn Sports in Oakhurst sells another book...nice. I have also found a few zonata by noticing their musk smell first...

We had a short discussion about you Brian... the guy scanned the book and said "trying to avoid rattlers, huh?" and I said... "No, I sorta vicariously know the guy who wrote the book" (we have met a few times but you would not remember me) He said you come through a every once and a while and drop off some books and count it as a taz write-off... smart man.

But that's another way to know you are on the right track to finding snakes.... follow the trail of Hubbs books into the mountains.

Now I own both your kingsnake books and your crot book... all signed :thumb: ... what can I say, I just can't help giving you my money... good stuff as always

I am living in Yosemite for 3 months under a fellowship grant from the sierra nevada research institute. the big project is the Yosemite Toad survey but I am here to lend a hand with my scientific visualization skills and tag along on some surveys.... I have actually been surprised at how clueless some of these herp graduate students are when they search for snakes. They waste a lot of time flipping cover in areas that I know won't produce animals (too dry, too late in the day, wrong orientation to the sun etc... they aren't from 'round these parts so they need some coaching on proper strategy for the region.... but I doubt they'll listen to a guy who's job title includes the words "Artist".

Their loss, I see oreganus every time I go out to the creek behind my cabin... walked a zonata the other evening as well.
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

I've found Agkistrodon contortix a couple times by scent. They don't smell anything like cucumbers IMO.

Several times I have smelled Lampropeltis pyromelana musk but it has hasn' t produced a snake yet...
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M Wolverton
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by M Wolverton »

This is why field guides should be scratch and sniff books.
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PNWHerper
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by PNWHerper »

Jeremy,
I love the little tracking stories left behind; a sidewinder "j" here, a shed skin under a rock edge there, a belly crawl mark into a rodent hole, a long dead snake under cover (hmmm did he die in his bed peacefully?)
Mmmhmmm! :thumb: :beer:

Agreed! Love the stories that tracking tells you, whether by sight or scent, or both!





BBeast,
I have actually been surprised at how clueless some of these herp graduate students are when they search for snakes. They waste a lot of time flipping cover in areas that I know won't produce animals (too dry, too late in the day, wrong orientation to the sun etc... they aren't from 'round these parts so they need some coaching on proper strategy for the region.... but I doubt they'll listen to a guy who's job title includes the words "Artist".

I have been herping for a while, but not as regularly as many folks here. I would love to hear more on clues you use to find likely snake spots. I am going on a major herp hunting trip in mid-August and will need all the expertise I can get from the good folks on this forum. Are you willing to share some tips as to what to key in on when hunting for snakes (other than scent as discussed here)?
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Piglet
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by Piglet »

My turtle dog Bill sniffing out a Kingsnake in a bush that I had walked past without noticing it.He is almost 16 now and can't make it to the woods anymore though.
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xxxHERPERxxx
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by xxxHERPERxxx »

I have found a few cottonmouths by following scent, usually while following a creek, so it's fairly easy to find them, ether their on one side, or the other side of the creek. Same with Nerodia.
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TravisK
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by TravisK »

I think it would be cool to train a bird dog to track snakes. I just wonder how hard it would be to train them to not get too close?
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vincemartino
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Re: Tracking snakes by scent

Post by vincemartino »

M Wolverton wrote:This is why field guides should be scratch and sniff books.
HAHA YES!
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