Rattlesnake Bite!!!!<UPDATED>!!!

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Rattlesnake Bite!!!!<UPDATED>!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 26th, 2011, 6:32 pm

:?:

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KingCam
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by KingCam » July 26th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Holy cow :shock: :shock:

Get well soon, man. I hate that something like that happened to you :(

condyle
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by condyle » July 26th, 2011, 6:41 pm

Looks like you were in good hands! Can you elaborate on the treatment? Any side effects from the antivenine?

billboard
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by billboard » July 26th, 2011, 7:11 pm

Memories of last October come rushing in!

Glad you are ok bro!

Give me a call before December.

Bill

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by hellihooks » July 26th, 2011, 7:15 pm

Welcome to the club you never wanted to join... Me, 15 months ago after catching a fang through a bag...
Image
If you look at the side of my hand under the little finger, you can see the scars from the tissue loss, from my first bite, in 75, which was a VERY bad bite... nearly lost my arm.
People--All it takes is ONE split-second of inattention or complacency. Never mind messing with crotes... if your even IN crote habitat... STAY FOCUSED... pretend there's a crote in EVERY BUSH and under EVERY ROCK/AC... cause the first time you let your guard down... There Will BE!
Did you have any of what you would consider neurotoxic effects? jim
Oh yeah... get better soon dude, and start on your range of motion recovery NOW... and push it hard NOW... cause once scar tissue forms... it's a LOT harder to get everything back... :thumb:

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 26th, 2011, 9:06 pm

:?:

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Judson
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Judson » July 26th, 2011, 9:17 pm

Nor Pac's near Loma Linda? I thought Nor Pacs were further up north?

Wicked looking bite. Did you have gloves on?

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 26th, 2011, 9:36 pm

:?:

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viper10802
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by viper10802 » July 27th, 2011, 12:54 am

Sucks to hear that man! Glad to see you were transfered to Loma Linda. I wish you a speedy recovery.

Viper10802

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KingCam
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by KingCam » July 27th, 2011, 5:47 am

M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:...heres one for ya! I don't remember anything about the first few day's..... People I talked to, things I said or did, absolutely no recollection as to the going on's. Not sure why.
That's weird. I wonder if other bite victims have had a similar experience?

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 27th, 2011, 6:21 am

:?:

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SDherp
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by SDherp » July 27th, 2011, 6:22 am

Sorry to hear about your bite. I wish you a speedy and successful recovery.

Evan

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KingCam
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by KingCam » July 27th, 2011, 6:30 am

M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:
KingCam wrote:
M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:...heres one for ya! I don't remember anything about the first few day's..... People I talked to, things I said or did, absolutely no recollection as to the going on's. Not sure why.
That's weird. I wonder if other bite victims have had a similar experience?
I'm not sure? It's a toss up for me, between the high doses of morphine and fentanyl or the venom coursing through my body. It remains a mystery to me? Maybe some other snake biters can comment on the correlation between rattlesnake bites and short term memory loss.
I could definitely see the morphine contributing to the memory loss.

...oh the things I've said to attractive nurses under the influence of morphine... :crazyeyes: :lol:

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rpecora
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by rpecora » July 27th, 2011, 6:49 am

Dude, sorry to hear this. Get well soon.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Kent VanSooy » July 27th, 2011, 6:56 am

Yikes Mel! Best of luck with your recovery, and thanks for sharing. I've read that altered mind states often accompany a bite, so it's not unusual. Based on my experience, as your hand heals, you REALLY want to work your thumbs and fingers, and keep as much range of motion as you can. Do everything your PT tells you, and then some!

I'm really sorry to hear this - hang in there.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by herper79 » July 27th, 2011, 7:11 am

Sorry you got tagged Mel. Thanks for sharing and reminding us that we always need to be alert. I hope you have a speedy recovery man! Looks like you went to the best place!
Nick

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by monklet » July 27th, 2011, 8:12 am

Sorry man, sure that could happen to anyone. Was there ever any inidication for fasciotomy? How many vials of Crofab? Any notable systemic response?

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by dinodan » July 27th, 2011, 10:12 am

How long did it take you to get to the hospital after you got bit? Do you know how big the snake was that bit you or did you not even see him? Shit like this makes you realize that this can happen to anyone. Hope you get all healed up soon. Pain meds like norco's and vicodin always made me super itchy and remember nothing or very little. That is probably what it was. I never had morphine but I imagine it is similar since they are all opiates.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Fieldnotes » July 27th, 2011, 10:13 am

Ouch... looks like the Discovery Channel will be showing another episode of "I was bitten" soon. :(

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socalherper
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by socalherper » July 27th, 2011, 11:19 am

Wow, glad you are doing better and thanks for sharing and giving us a reality check.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by rosy-man » July 27th, 2011, 11:43 am

so so sorry to here about this, and just when you were getting into rosys lol leave them hots alone ouch hope your better soon.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by reako45 » July 27th, 2011, 2:50 pm

Prayers for a speedy and complete recovery. Kudos to you and your wife; from the photos it looks like you managed to make the most from a rotten situation.

God Bless,
reako45

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 27th, 2011, 9:15 pm

:?:

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Azvenomous
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Azvenomous » July 27th, 2011, 9:46 pm

Bro' I was just sitting here talking to my wife and wondering if you and your family were coming to Tombstone and found this post. We are totally blown away. I just can't believe this happened to you. We are relieved your coming through this mishap alright. You were in the best hands possible through this. Our thoughts are with you and yours, and hope you make a full recovery. Keep us posted please.
Brian
Tombstone Reptile Exhibit

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Burt Gummer
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Burt Gummer » July 27th, 2011, 9:55 pm

Mel,

Can you elaborate on the circumstances that lead to the bite? Were you manipulating an animal that had already been discovered or was this a genuine accident with an unseen snake? Single individual or one of many in a known hot area? I'd love to "learn something from this."

Thanks!

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by LouB747 » July 28th, 2011, 1:32 pm

Sorry to hear about your bite. Glad to see your doing alright. When I first saw NorPac mixed with Loma Linda Hospital, I thought maybe it was a captive snake that got you. I too would like to learn from this experience. Any details? I keep looking at the pictures and thinking, "what if this happened to my son." I hope you make a 100% recovery....

Lou

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Jeremy Westerman » July 28th, 2011, 3:01 pm

Burt Gummer wrote:Mel,

Can you elaborate on the circumstances that lead to the bite? Were you manipulating an animal that had already been discovered or was this a genuine accident with an unseen snake? Single individual or one of many in a known hot area? I'd love to "learn something from this."

Thanks!
Ditto.


Sorry that happened to you Mel. We all put ourselves at slightly greater risk than an average hiker but added awareness and experience usually can compensate for the greater risk factor. Very sorry to here you joined the painful and expensive unlucky club. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Do you feel like this will color or alter your field habits? for many of us who go looking for hots, this is a serious and realistic potential outcome. what would you like to have done different that might have changed the outcome? Do you feel like it was a preventable bite or just circumstance? Hope you are back on the hills looking for trouble in no time but this time you find it before it finds you...

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by RobertH » July 28th, 2011, 4:11 pm

Mel, I am glad to hear that you are on the road to recovery and can only try to imagine what you are going through.

For something good to come out of this miserable episode in your life, I too think that you should at some point, when you feel up to it, tell us a bit more of the full story so we can all learn from it. Nicholas and I tried to take to heart the lessons from Kent's bite and are grateful he shared the details of his bite. It has made us even more cautious than before, especially Nicholas, but we both know that there is more to be learned.

In any event, I wish you a speedy, full recoevry and hope you'll be back out there soon. :)

Robert

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Tofuman
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Tofuman » July 29th, 2011, 1:19 am

Threads like this are always a good reminder for me to be extremely carful :shock: Get well soon.

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » July 30th, 2011, 8:57 am

:?:

hellihooks
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by hellihooks » July 30th, 2011, 11:01 am

Plenty of silvadine cream and vit.E after the soaks, Mel... then... when your hand is most pliable/soft... Push the range of motion! jim

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by MarcLinsalata » July 30th, 2011, 1:50 pm

Let's get to the point here on what is most important, people - the next person to get tagged and meet up with Dr. Sean Bush has GOT to ask him where I can get one of those Weird Al 'Amish Paradise' shirts - that thing is awesome!!!! :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by MarcLinsalata » July 30th, 2011, 1:54 pm

But seriously, this is reminder enough. After my close call a month ago reaching down for that shed about 4 inches from a Helleri's face, I still spent the past two herp trips reaching down under rocks and AC to get a better grip all the while saying in my head "this is stupid and it's only a matter of time" this is a good reminder that I had better wise up, also considering I have no medical insurance and I am alone in the field.....

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Kent VanSooy » July 31st, 2011, 6:58 am

Yup, work that range of motion! Right now your hand is sort of like wet concrete...once it hardens, you'll keep whatever limitations you have, so now is the time to work it. Stretch your thumb in both directions - closed and open.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by reptilist » August 2nd, 2011, 6:54 pm

Thanks for posting your pictures, they are very educational!
:beer:

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by bnsf97 » August 4th, 2011, 8:49 am

Sorry to hear! Looks like it's healing up nicely though. Wishing you a quick and full recovery!

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Biker Dave » August 9th, 2011, 6:52 pm

Mel

I just found this post about your bite. Looks like you are recovering well (thank God). Keep everyone posted as it goes and take the advice of the survivors club.

THese threadds always slap me back into safe mode. I get reminded to keep my awareness level up.

Heal well !

Dave Weber

PS I dont even want to know what the medical bill looks like with three hospitals, air trans to LLU and all that CroFab! That may be more painful than the bite!

Maybe we should start a medical relief assistance fund for the unlucky among us?

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Hans Breuer (twoton) » August 10th, 2011, 12:47 am

Bloody hell. Thanks for the reality check.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Dutchocrat » August 10th, 2011, 1:53 pm

I just came back from a 7 day hike/bike trip in Tulare/Kern Counties with 10 boyscouts. We saw several crotes, only a few I had a chance to make pictures off (and bad pictures at that with this crappy camera). Anyway, as scouts are extremely curious (another word for stupid), and they allways like to poke snakes when no adults is around, I had the following question:

If you are out in the back country, and at least several hours from the nearest first aid, with several more for a complete evacuation, what is the best one can do with a crote bite. I understand minimal motion if possible, but what is the critical time period and is there anything that can be done other then evacuation.

Thanks for sharing your experience and pictures. I will provide the scouts with a pictorial overview of what can happen if bit. That hopefully will get some sense into them.

Get well fast!

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Talusman » August 16th, 2011, 8:23 am

I second the advice to work your hand. Take the physical therapy seriously. You will get out of it what you put into it. I doubled my exercise routine - pushed myself until I cried. When they told me 10 reps, I did 30. I now have full dexterity and hand strength. My hand surgeon was amazed at my recovery. I too had the itchies, probably from the pain meds.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by RobertH » August 16th, 2011, 9:00 am

I'll let others with more experience comment on what to do in terms of first aid, though I can tell you there ain't much you can or should do.

The one thing I would highly recommend to you as a boy scout leader responsible for the lives of a bunch of kids is to carry a device like the Spot Tracker that allows you to send out an emergency message from ANYWHERE (e.g., even in places without cell phone reception). In case of a serious bite, a kid may well be dead, or at least suffer horrendous damage and pain, if several hours elapse before antivenin is administered. Because kids have smaller bodies, they are much more sensitive to crotalus venom than adults (over 120 pounds).

There is actually a story of a 10-year old boy scout being bitten by a NorPac rattlesnake up in or near Yosemite about 10 years ago. Search the Internet for the name "Justin" and "rattlesnake bite", that should bring up his site, which has the full story, including some very graphic pictures. He didn't get antivenin for something like 4 hours, as I recall, and almost lost his arm.

As a father of a 9-year old boy, I can tell you I am extremely tuned in to the risk involved, and always carry my SPOT tracker when herping with him out cell phone range (which happens a lot). More importantly, however, I have taught Nicholas from day 1 to be extremely careful around rattlers and to watch out for them every step of the way when we're off-trail. He also wears gaiters off-trail. He also knows exactly what would happen in case of a bite, i.e., I haven't white-washed it in any way. A certain amount of real fear is good thing in this case, I think.

Aside from teaching your boy scouts not to taunt rattlesnakes (obvious), you may also want to teach them how to avoid getting bitten accidentally. This kid Justin, for example, was bitten when he sat down on a rock for a rest and let his arms dangle next or behind to the rock - which had a rattlesnake under it. Lesson learned: Do not sit/lie down on anything unless you have first checked for rattlers under it.

Btw, 95% of rattlesnake bites are to the hand. Most are due to drunk me in their early twenties handling rattlers, but many are due to people sticking their hands into places (e.g., crevices, bushes) where there may be rattlers. For your boy scouts, this means they should look out for rattlesnakes when rock scrambling, playing hide and seek , etc.

A typical scenario of getting bitten in the leg is stepping over a log and then getting tagged by a rattler resting in the shade under the log. Lesson learned: Step ON the log and then make a large step away from it, as opposed to just stepping over the log.

There are obviously countless other possible ways of getting tagged, but maybe this will get you thinking along the right lines and allow you to develop some sort of bite prevention protocol for your troop.

I hope you don't mind the "lecture." It's just a topic that I feel fairly strongly about, as you can imagine, and I would hate to see this thing happen to kid. It's traumatizing for an adult.

Robert

RobK

Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by RobK » August 26th, 2011, 1:35 pm

M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote: Gang in due time I will talk more about the events leading up to and surrounding my bite, I want to talk about it but at this time I just can't.
I, too, am interested in the circumstances; I use these opportunities to show my 12 year old son what can happen. Bet there are lots of younger herpers coming up through the ranks who would also benefit from your story.

Takes guts to even post something like this, imo. I know folks who've been tagged and would never post it on the forums. So, thanks for sharing.

Glad to see you're doing better.

-r

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frodaman
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by frodaman » August 31st, 2011, 12:07 pm

I hear that antivenom is very expensive and is not covered by insurance, is this true?
sorry about the bite!!

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » August 31st, 2011, 12:42 pm

:?:

RobK

Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by RobK » August 31st, 2011, 2:02 pm

M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote: Yes it is very expinsive $3200.00 a vial..... As far as the insurance goes I guess it varies from policy to policy.... My insurance covered 68 vials with.
Since I'm a numbers guy by day, had to do the calc. So.... we're at $217,600 just with the vials. Throw in the ambulance ride, 3 hospitals, and other incidentals, and we're talking a small fortune here. All from one snake. Crazy. :shock:

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » August 31st, 2011, 2:12 pm

:?

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Owen
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by Owen » August 31st, 2011, 3:46 pm

So good to hear the insurance covered it and sobering to know the cost. I vacinated the dog for $30/shot (two) and I would do that for myself if available. They say it makes the bite only 15-20% as severe.

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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by devilfish79 » September 3rd, 2011, 9:14 pm

Hey Mel,

It was good to meet you this morning at the NARBC! When you showed me your bite, I was kinda taken off guard. You didn't seem too bothered by it. I'm glad that you're okay and man, you've come a long way. Sorry if I came off as disinterested, I wasn't. It's just that I'm not that active on these forums and I almost never meet anyone at these shows. I was pleasantly surprised. :)

This year was my first rattlesnake siting...in person! I don't normally go looking for them, so it was kinda cool. I spotted it up in Malibu at Saddle Peak (where all the antennas are). I was actually horsing around with the little fence lizards up there when I spotted part of a snack hanging out in the sun from under the cement walkway. After closer (not as close as you get) inspection, I was pretty stoked to have spotted it! But then I had to warn all the other workers in the area about it's presence. The good news was that it didn't bother us and we didn't bother it; just the way I like it.

Again, thank goodness you're okay and it was extremely nice to meet you!

-Erik

PS: Get the snakes you were looking for?

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frodaman
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!

Post by frodaman » September 4th, 2011, 2:27 pm

That is CRAZY!!! Good thing you had some good insurance!
If you didn't, you might as well have bought a nice new house for the price of something a single snake can do to you!

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Rattlesnake Bite!!!!<UPDATED>

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » September 8th, 2011, 7:47 pm

:?:

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