viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7553
For those who havn't seen the above post, robbielab did a phenomenal job processing a skull.
This happens to be an aspiring hobby of mine as well, mainly mammals because they tend to hold up alot better than herps. I'm curious, do you guys process roadkill for the bones/skulls? If so, what techniques do you use to get that nice "bleached waxy" look?
I know this is on the wrong forum...move if you want.
TH
Skull Processing?
Moderator: Scott Waters
Re: Skull Processing?
Hi teter247,
thanks! I actually processed this skull by firstly boiling it to make the flesh easier to remove and then spending several hours picking away at it! When all but the smallest "bits" have been removed I soak the bones in bleach for a while until there is no flesh left. Then rinse it very well (to stop the action of the bleach).
However!!! I have found a website (http://www.boneroom.com/faqs/bones.html#cleaning) which suggests the best methods for skull processing... and it says to NEVER boil or bleach bones. Oh well! Seems to have worked for me so far.
Here is another skull I processed in the same way (Green iguana)
Cheers
thanks! I actually processed this skull by firstly boiling it to make the flesh easier to remove and then spending several hours picking away at it! When all but the smallest "bits" have been removed I soak the bones in bleach for a while until there is no flesh left. Then rinse it very well (to stop the action of the bleach).
However!!! I have found a website (http://www.boneroom.com/faqs/bones.html#cleaning) which suggests the best methods for skull processing... and it says to NEVER boil or bleach bones. Oh well! Seems to have worked for me so far.
Here is another skull I processed in the same way (Green iguana)
Cheers
-
- Posts: 39
- Joined: August 21st, 2010, 3:38 pm
Re: Skull Processing?
I use dermestid beetles and a H2O2 & climbers chalk mix to bleach the bones. I usually mount the skulls and use the vertebrate for something else:
beetles at work on a hog skull
Before bleaching
and after bleaching
some snake stuff:
beetles at work on a hog skull
Before bleaching
and after bleaching
some snake stuff:
- Gluesenkamp
- Posts: 290
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:57 am
- Location: Texas
Re: Skull Processing?
No bleach, lye, or hydrogen peroxide. Soak in dillute ammonia and rinse well.
Andy
Andy
Re: Skull Processing?
When I was in school, a grad student did a lot of bone work. He used a high phosphate detergent ("Biz") and it ate the meat right off the bones in short order. A couple of years later a drill (baboon) died at my place of employment, and I biz-ed the skull. Worked beautifully. I don't know if such a product is still readily available......that was in the early 70's.
EDIT: OK, just googled it and learned that the stuff has been banned since 1993. Sorry. John Zegel sells dermestid beetle colonies, a much more eco-friendly alternative.
EDIT: OK, just googled it and learned that the stuff has been banned since 1993. Sorry. John Zegel sells dermestid beetle colonies, a much more eco-friendly alternative.
- M Wolverton
- Posts: 417
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:46 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Skull Processing?
Bleach will often lead to early degradation.
For comparative analysis specimens we macerate first and then soak in Biz and water. The Biz is a lot easier on the specimens.
For comparative analysis specimens we macerate first and then soak in Biz and water. The Biz is a lot easier on the specimens.
Re: Skull Processing?
So Biz is still out there? Cool. Anyone here know John Applegarth? He was the fellow I knew that bizzed all sorts of stuff.
I've lost touch with him. Sharp guy!
I've lost touch with him. Sharp guy!
Re: Skull Processing?
I usually let the skulls simmer for a few hours and add a bit of detergent to the water...it seems to help release some of the oil. For bleaching, I use peroxide (diluted) which I get at a beauty supply store.
Travis
Travis
- M Wolverton
- Posts: 417
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:46 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Skull Processing?
I bought some here in WA about five years ago or so. But I haven't looked for it since then.Don wrote:So Biz is still out there? Cool. Anyone here know John Applegarth? He was the fellow I knew that bizzed all sorts of stuff.
I've lost touch with him. Sharp guy!
Re: Skull Processing?
Don wrote:When I was in school, a grad student did a lot of bone work. He used a high phosphate detergent ("Biz") and it ate the meat right off the bones in short order. A couple of years later a drill (baboon) died at my place of employment, and I biz-ed the skull. Worked beautifully. I don't know if such a product is still readily available......that was in the early 70's.
EDIT: OK, just googled it and learned that the stuff has been banned since 1993. Sorry. John Zegel sells dermestid beetle colonies, a much more eco-friendly alternative.
My Freshman BioChem Professor did this in 10 gallon buckets. I wonder if 20 mule team would have the same affect? I've seen that at stores.
-
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Re: Skull Processing?
I agree against bleach... for many reasons, degrades the bone, actually will set fats into the bone and discolor it... bu why not Hydrogen peroxide? always worked real well for me. The head of the zoological collection at UC santa cruz agreed that Hydrogen peroxide works well.
I have never processed a skull from a freshly dead animal. the stuff I have done has always been old and mummified.
if it has a lot of flesh on it, I soak it in water and keep replacing it with fresh water every few days until the fatty scum subsides and the water stays relatively clear, then into Hydrogen peroxide to get the remaining fats and tissue off replacing that every week or so until it stays clear or the skull is clean.
sounds like this Biz stuff is the business though.
I have never processed a skull from a freshly dead animal. the stuff I have done has always been old and mummified.
if it has a lot of flesh on it, I soak it in water and keep replacing it with fresh water every few days until the fatty scum subsides and the water stays relatively clear, then into Hydrogen peroxide to get the remaining fats and tissue off replacing that every week or so until it stays clear or the skull is clean.
sounds like this Biz stuff is the business though.
- Gluesenkamp
- Posts: 290
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:57 am
- Location: Texas
Re: Skull Processing?
Here's a list of options for how to do it properly:
1. Maceration. Soak the specimen in a bucket of tap water (with a lid!) for a few/several days, depending on temperature and size/condition of specimen. This works well for large specimens (pig skulls), very dried specimens (longer soaking), and very rotten specimens (think dead Burmese). You may need to pour off some water and rinse the specimen occassionally. Buy a cheap strainer at the store and use it to "filter" any small bones (i.e. snake ribs).
2. Dermestid beetles. Works only on fresh or fresh-dried specimens. Best for mid-sized and larger specimens. You can get dermestids from a number of suppliers (commmon contaminant in cricket production facilities) or from under roadkill, etc. Dermestids like it dry and warm. Take a skinned/gutted specimen that has been air-dried and loosely wrap it in paper towels. Place it in a box (plastic shoe boxes work great) with some dermestids. You may need to mist some parts of the specimen or just dampen the towel from time to time. Snake vertebrae can be strung on monofilament line after bugging (use 30% more line than the length of the snake). This keeps the bones from becoming scrambled.
3. A gentler version of the bugging process can be achieved by using terrestrial isopods (aka rolly pollies, pill bugs). They won't damage small bones (salamanders, fish) but they like things a bit on the moist side so you have to watch out for fungus.
4. After removing flesh via whatever method, soak the specimen in household ammonia (I use dilluted anhydrous ammonia but that stuff is horrible to work with and not easy to obtain for most folks) for several hours or even days. This will remove grease and stank from the bones. Rinse in tap water using your handy strainer and air dry.
***Bleach, hydrogen peroxide, lye, and Biz (detergent with enzymes) can all damage bones. "Bleached" bones will become chalky and will have a dull appearance since you've dissolved the lamina on the outside surface of the bone.
***Boiling can cause sutures to separate, bones to warp, and may crack teeth. Besides, it stinks. I only use boiling to "parboil" large specimens and then work them down to the point where I can bug them or whatever.
1. Maceration. Soak the specimen in a bucket of tap water (with a lid!) for a few/several days, depending on temperature and size/condition of specimen. This works well for large specimens (pig skulls), very dried specimens (longer soaking), and very rotten specimens (think dead Burmese). You may need to pour off some water and rinse the specimen occassionally. Buy a cheap strainer at the store and use it to "filter" any small bones (i.e. snake ribs).
2. Dermestid beetles. Works only on fresh or fresh-dried specimens. Best for mid-sized and larger specimens. You can get dermestids from a number of suppliers (commmon contaminant in cricket production facilities) or from under roadkill, etc. Dermestids like it dry and warm. Take a skinned/gutted specimen that has been air-dried and loosely wrap it in paper towels. Place it in a box (plastic shoe boxes work great) with some dermestids. You may need to mist some parts of the specimen or just dampen the towel from time to time. Snake vertebrae can be strung on monofilament line after bugging (use 30% more line than the length of the snake). This keeps the bones from becoming scrambled.
3. A gentler version of the bugging process can be achieved by using terrestrial isopods (aka rolly pollies, pill bugs). They won't damage small bones (salamanders, fish) but they like things a bit on the moist side so you have to watch out for fungus.
4. After removing flesh via whatever method, soak the specimen in household ammonia (I use dilluted anhydrous ammonia but that stuff is horrible to work with and not easy to obtain for most folks) for several hours or even days. This will remove grease and stank from the bones. Rinse in tap water using your handy strainer and air dry.
***Bleach, hydrogen peroxide, lye, and Biz (detergent with enzymes) can all damage bones. "Bleached" bones will become chalky and will have a dull appearance since you've dissolved the lamina on the outside surface of the bone.
***Boiling can cause sutures to separate, bones to warp, and may crack teeth. Besides, it stinks. I only use boiling to "parboil" large specimens and then work them down to the point where I can bug them or whatever.
- Jeremy Westerman
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Re: Skull Processing?
any amount of bleaching will deteriorate your collection over time. the ones I bleached early on have a powdery cast off that is clearly bone deterioration. I wish I had known that before. So I switched to hydrogen peroxide and began diluting over the years until now after I clean them I just pour some 70% isopropyl alcohol on them to hopefully kill any bacteria and leave them "natural" colored. I have good results with small, birds, mammals and delicate nasal bones that boiling or bleaching would surely destroy but have yet to try any herps.
Re: Skull Processing?
Some great tips here. Unfortunately I don't really have any access to anything other than bleach and boiling water where I am living at the moment. The stinky water bucket method would work, but I don't think my immediate neighbours would be too keen!
I have actually finished the skulls with a general purpose matt varnish, which hopefully will help against bone degradation. It also gives them a nice "fossilized" look. A question of personal taste I know, but I quite like the effect. It also seems to stop small bones/teeth from falling off!
I have actually finished the skulls with a general purpose matt varnish, which hopefully will help against bone degradation. It also gives them a nice "fossilized" look. A question of personal taste I know, but I quite like the effect. It also seems to stop small bones/teeth from falling off!
- Gluesenkamp
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- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:57 am
- Location: Texas
Re: Skull Processing?
*A drop of household cement at the base of each tooth helps keep them in place.
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 11:22 am
Re: Skull Processing?
I like to use some precision hot glue gunning. Cyanoacrylates ("superglue") work, but are brittle when dry and always stick to your skin better than they bond anything else.. they also can discolor and do some strange things if you accidentally get a bit too much on a spot.
also, small spots of hot glue are somewhat removable, where as superglue is not easy to remove if you make an error.
this is mostly for putting together skulls that have come apart while soaking or have been shattered in places.
just for theeth... whatever's clever.
also, small spots of hot glue are somewhat removable, where as superglue is not easy to remove if you make an error.
this is mostly for putting together skulls that have come apart while soaking or have been shattered in places.
just for theeth... whatever's clever.
- Gluesenkamp
- Posts: 290
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:57 am
- Location: Texas
Re: Skull Processing?
We always use acrylic cement (household cement), never krazy glue (CA). Acrylic cement is easily dissolved with acetone or fingernail polish remover. CA is forever..