Wild caught albinos???

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

User avatar
jdustin
Posts: 454
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:59 am
Location: UTAH
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by jdustin »

In case anyone missed it, there was a really cool AZ coral posted by BayouSurreal. Has to be piebald or something weird.
See the post here.

Image
User avatar
Don Becker
Posts: 3312
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:21 am
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Don Becker »

I posted about this not too long ago. Found here in Iowa earlier in the year by a kid I take herping with me. It's not full albino, just hypo.
Image
User avatar
Fundad
Posts: 5721
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:11 am
Location: Los Angeles County
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Fundad »

Albino's and piebald are the Holy Grail IMHO. And I have never seen one in the wild.. I ve seen lots of Hypo, some Luestic, a hybrid, and some far out patterned animals, but never an Albino.

And the Albinos and Piebalds posted here make me envious... All of them are really beautiful, even the ringnecks IMO.. :thumb: :beer:

Fundad
User avatar
Getula Hunter
Posts: 102
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 2:36 am

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Getula Hunter »

Pacific Gopher I found in 2002
Image

Mormon I found in 2003
Image

J.P.
User avatar
Russ_Jones
Posts: 100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:00 am

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Russ_Jones »

Here's an eastern garter from Southern Ontario. My friend found this a couple of years ago. Last time I posted it there was some discussion as to whether this was colour or stain... I say colour.

Image

Image

Russ
BradB
Posts: 80
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 4:10 pm

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by BradB »

A hypomelanistic Tiger Sally from Ga:

Image
AndrewVia
Posts: 3
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 11:19 am

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by AndrewVia »

I'm surprised this isn't up yet. A friend sent me the pics, this Opheodrys was found this year in Carolina. Sorry they aren't better quality.
Image


Image
User avatar
Steve Atkins
Posts: 744
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:14 pm
Location: Asheville NC

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Steve Atkins »

jdustin wrote:In case anyone missed it, there was a really cool AZ coral posted by BayouSurreal. Has to be piebald or something weird.
See the post here.

Image
!

WOW, that would be a hard one to let go!
User avatar
Alex Pepper
Posts: 44
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 9:26 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Alex Pepper »

I agree that coral is one of the most spectacular abberancies I've ever seen, but one major thing to consider is their difficulty to get not only feeding but thriving in captivity without force/tubing feeding. I support his very responsible and mature decision to release it despite the obvious temptations not to.

BUT now if that was a gopher snake or something... :D
Paul White
Posts: 2288
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:52 pm
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Paul White »

yeah. If it's a species I know would be next to impossible to establish, that's one thing...if it'd been something I thought there was a good chance of acclimating...oh hubba hubba.
User avatar
reptilist
Posts: 653
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 9:30 am
Location: Clifton, Arizona

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by reptilist »

I don't believe keeping an Arizona Coral Snake is all that difficult. The key is to find a healthy population of tantilla to harvest from. Corals are not uncommon, I would have kept it.
User avatar
Chris Smith
Posts: 2291
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:13 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Chris Smith »

Russ_Jones wrote:Here's an eastern garter from Southern Ontario. My friend found this a couple of years ago. Last time I posted it there was some discussion as to whether this was colour or stain... I say colour.

Image

Image

Russ

This is a bad a$$ looking garter snake.

-Chris
matt ignoffo
Posts: 205
Joined: June 12th, 2010, 1:49 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by matt ignoffo »

Anerythristic axanthic central newt. Terrestrial adult.

Image
User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Natalie McNear »

Now that's a cool sally. :thumb:

I guess since this thread isn't just about albinos anymore, I might as well post my only contribution... Possible axanthic Rubber Boa:

Image
User avatar
Scott Waters
Site Admin
Posts: 692
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:08 am
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Scott Waters »

Hmm. Is that boa a coastal or sierra? It looks like a coastal, which from my experience tend to have a lot less "color" in them than the sierra beasts.

scott
User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Natalie McNear »

It's a coastal, but the belly is much paler than on most other individuals from the same locale (which tend to be more gold-orange). The main weird thing about it is the eyes, which are completely black - normally, when boas are born with black eyes they lighten up in a few months. This snake is now over a year old and still has black eyes, which is common in axanthic and anerythristic individuals (this boa still has some red pigment, so it's not anerythristic).
User avatar
Fieldnotes
Posts: 1474
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:12 pm
Location: Anaheim, California
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Fieldnotes »

Image
Not quite an albino, but still an interesting find.
User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Natalie McNear »

Hypomelanistic Taricha granulosa?
User avatar
Gary N
Posts: 206
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:07 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Gary N »

jdustin wrote:I'd really like to see some pictures of some albino herps (or other freaks) from the wild.
If anyone has any to contribute, let's see em!

Image
This abnormal zonata was found in San Diego County.
User avatar
Nature Nate
Posts: 510
Joined: August 24th, 2010, 10:14 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Nature Nate »

last spring I found my first albino, an my second, and third, fourth, fifth, up to 50 albino western spadefoot tadpoles in the same vernal pool! unfortunately all the tadpoles (over 100,000) all dried up before they could morph in the wild. fortunately I saved most of the albinos and about 100 of the normals. Once they morphed I released them down some rodent holes in the same area at night. I also gave some to an expert in the field so he could morph the albinos. Here's some pics.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Carl Brune
Posts: 488
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:22 am
Location: Athens, OH
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos??? -- salamanders

Post by Carl Brune »

A couple of interesting salamanders I've seen:

Image
Anerythristic? Northern Spring Salamander (Gyrinophilus porphyriticus porphyriticus)

Image
Melanistic? Marbled Salamander (Ambystoma opacum)
User avatar
Saunders
Posts: 433
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:42 am
Location: Boerne, Tx

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Saunders »

I didn't find this but someone did, and it's for sale.
Albino Tiger Rat snake.
http://market."not allowed"/detail.php?cat=60&de=822554
User avatar
Ross Padilla
Posts: 2666
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 6:29 pm
Location: I love L.A.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Ross Padilla »

Nature Nate wrote:last spring I found my first albino, an my second, and third, fourth, fifth, up to 50 albino western spadefoot tadpoles in the same vernal pool! unfortunately all the tadpoles (over 100,000) all dried up before they could morph in the wild. fortunately I saved most of the albinos and about 100 of the normals. Once they morphed I released them down some rodent holes in the same area at night. I also gave some to an expert in the field so he could morph the albinos. Here's some pics.
That's awesome, man. I remember the story. Thanks for the fallow up. :thumb:
User avatar
concinnusman
Posts: 129
Joined: November 26th, 2010, 10:46 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by concinnusman »

Nir wrote:Image

Weird eastern garter found here in Quebec in 2006. Some sort of albino....

Looks hypomelanistic. These have been found before. They aren't quite albino, not quite normal. Something in between.
Russ_Jones wrote:Here's an eastern garter from Southern Ontario. My friend found this a couple of years ago. Last time I posted it there was some discussion as to whether this was colour or stain... I say colour.

Image

Image

Russ
That is quite possibly the weirdest eastern I have ever seen. It definitely has the traits of a melanistic eastern but like it was painted red on top. Very strange. Reminds me of this erythristic northwestern garter snake a friend of mine caught near Portland, Oregon. Dang thing looks like it crawled through red wood stain. It's the smaller male courting a female. I still have both the snakes in the picture.
Image
User avatar
concinnusman
Posts: 129
Joined: November 26th, 2010, 10:46 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by concinnusman »

Nature Nate wrote:last spring I found my first albino, an my second, and third, fourth, fifth, up to 50 albino western spadefoot tadpoles in the same vernal pool! unfortunately all the tadpoles (over 100,000) all dried up before they could morph in the wild. fortunately I saved most of the albinos and about 100 of the normals. Once they morphed I released them down some rodent holes in the same area at night. I also gave some to an expert in the field so he could morph the albinos. Here's some pics.
Awesome! I spent much of my high school years in San Diego back in the 1980's. I found several albino toadlets there. Also found quite a few albino CA slender salamanders, often several at a time under one piece of plywood or under rocks. Then one day... Jackpot! newly hatched CA king snakes. About 8 of them under a piece of plywood. 3 of them were albino, and one of the albinos was a striped phase!

For some reason, I got used to finding albino amphibians, but when I found the albino king snakes, I just about had a heart attack!

Good job saving the toads. I wouldn't have released them though. Chances are, they won't make it out there. The parents that spawned them were probably hets. Good that you saved some albinos for captivity.
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

Never found a verified albino, but I did find what I believe to be a melanistic Contia -

Image

I saw a single bullfrog tadpole that looked to be albino, but it possibly was just covered with a white fungus. I thought it was dead until it swam away. Dead tadpoles usually don't swim. Did not see any others that year, nor any this year.

Could have been released, pet stores sometimes sell albino bullfrog tadpoles. If the gene follows simple Mendel then I suspect I should have seen more than 1 if it was bred in that pool.

I have also (early teens) found an anery Coast Range Garter. And no, it didn't look like a Mountain. The lack of red/yellow also impacted the dorsal stripe, which was visible but looked like charcoal had been rubbed over it. Adult male found in vicinity of Half Moon Bay, CA.
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

concinnusman wrote: Good job saving the toads. I wouldn't have released them though. Chances are, they won't make it out there. The parents that spawned them were probably hets. Good that you saved some albinos for captivity.
Given that the species spends most of its time underground, albinism may not be as detrimental to the specimens as it is for some other species.

-=-

I have no idea how hard it is to captive breed spadefoot toads, but assuming the albinism was caused by genes and not some other cause, would captive bred albino western spadefoot toads be legal to commercially sell in California?
User avatar
concinnusman
Posts: 129
Joined: November 26th, 2010, 10:46 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by concinnusman »

FunkyRes wrote:
concinnusman wrote: Good job saving the toads. I wouldn't have released them though. Chances are, they won't make it out there. The parents that spawned them were probably hets. Good that you saved some albinos for captivity.
Given that the species spends most of its time underground, albinism may not be as detrimental to the specimens as it is for some other species.

-=-

I have no idea how hard it is to captive breed spadefoot toads, but assuming the albinism was caused by genes and not some other cause, would captive bred albino western spadefoot toads be legal to commercially sell in California?
I'm thinking probably not, considering they occur in CA naturally. You do have a point about the albino toads. Could also apply to the albino CA slender salamanders I was finding. There were quite a few and many of them were fully mature.
User avatar
jdustin
Posts: 454
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:59 am
Location: UTAH
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by jdustin »

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading that CA specifically excludes albinos from many of their wildlife laws.
User avatar
Jeff Lemm
Posts: 411
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 pm

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Jeff Lemm »

To sell a native albino in CA it has to be cb. Protected species are excluded from this.
User avatar
Natalie McNear
Posts: 1147
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm
Location: Northern coast of California

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Natalie McNear »

And they are pretty strict about the term "albino", using it only in the purest sense - a "white animal with red eyes" is how they phrase it, I believe. That means that simple amelanistic animals (like many of the ones posted on this thread, which a lot of people refer to as "albino") would technically be illegal to sell in California because although they have red eyes, they are not white in color. It also rules out leucistic animals, which are solid white but have dark eyes. Not that it seems to be strictly enforced though - I've seen amelanistic (not albino) rattlesnakes for sale in stores here.
hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by hellihooks »

Natalie McNear wrote:And they are pretty strict about the term "albino", using it only in the purest sense - a "white animal with red eyes" is how they phrase it, I believe. That means that simple amelanistic animals (like many of the ones posted on this thread, which a lot of people refer to as "albino") would technically be illegal to sell in California because although they have red eyes, they are not white in color. It also rules out leucistic animals, which are solid white but have dark eyes. Not that it seems to be strictly enforced though - I've seen amelanistic (not albino) rattlesnakes for sale in stores here.
I know there's a lot of Alb. Tx. atrox for sale up in your area, but I don't know of too many 'Native' alb crote strains out there, much less in pet shops... :shock: Then again, I don't follow the 'exotic' market... or even have any 'out-of-state' hots, as a law-abiding citizen, and as Board Member, there's NO WAY I'm about to risk a black eye for Nafha, by getting caught with ANYTHING questionable. All that 'questionable stuff' is awesome, and tempting... but I'd rather sleep good at night... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
Don't get me wrong... if I EVER find an ALB... I'd try to keep and breed it....unless its like a leafnose, or something else impossible to keep alive.
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

Natalie McNear wrote:And they are pretty strict about the term "albino", using it only in the purest sense - a "white animal with red eyes" is how they phrase it, I believe. That means that simple amelanistic animals (like many of the ones posted on this thread, which a lot of people refer to as "albino") would technically be illegal to sell in California because although they have red eyes, they are not white in color. It also rules out leucistic animals, which are solid white but have dark eyes. Not that it seems to be strictly enforced though - I've seen amelanistic (not albino) rattlesnakes for sale in stores here.
I specifically asked about this when I called.

My pink eyed albino Cal King was exempt because she had pink eyes even though she had yellow pigment.
My lavender albino Cal King was NOT exempt because she had blue eyes (not really albino IMHO, but a type of hypo).
User avatar
Joseph S.
Posts: 540
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:21 pm

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Joseph S. »

Can't believe no one commented on the pink Brahminy blindsnake. How does that work...being that they are parthenogenic this must have been a spontaneous mutation.

So it seems those albino spadefoots are excluded from F&G regs if they are CB from these WC albinos.
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

Joseph S. wrote:Can't believe no one commented on the pink Brahminy blindsnake. How does that work...being that they are parthenogenic this must have been a spontaneous mutation.

So it seems those albino spadefoots are excluded from F&G regs if they are CB from these WC albinos.
See Jeff's post. Protected species are excluded from the albino exception (which is what I was curious about), so if those legally possessing the WC albino spadefoots did breed them, they couldn't hit the pet trade.
User avatar
John Martin
Posts: 515
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 10:57 pm
Location: North end of Lake Okeechobee, Florida

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by John Martin »

reptilist wrote:I don't believe keeping an Arizona Coral Snake is all that difficult. The key is to find a healthy population of tantilla to harvest from. Corals are not uncommon, I would have kept it.
Me too! That is probably the most incredible aberrancy I've seen in a snake. As for successfully keeping Micruroides - I found an ~19" adult in 1980 and maintained it in captivity for 22 years after which it finally succumbed to, I suppose, old age. In this time it accepted as food items: Leptotyphlops, Tantilla, Rhinocheilus, Arizona, Hypsiglena, Phyllorhynchus, and Sonora. Many of these were fresh road kills which were frozen and later thawed. Oh, and this thread has been awesome, showing some really cool "freaks". :thumb:
User avatar
Harold of the Rocks
Posts: 45
Joined: August 12th, 2010, 10:03 pm
Location: Napa, CA

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Harold of the Rocks »

Here is a Pacific Gopher a friend of mine found as a hatchling and later gave to me.
So far there are some poss. hets produced.
Ben
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
herpseeker1978
Posts: 1139
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:05 am
Location: Albuquerque

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by herpseeker1978 »

beautiful snake! Those eyes are huge!

Josh
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

That Pit morph is awesome!
hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by hellihooks »

Stop holding it so dang tight Ben... It's eyes are popping out... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: seriously... whats up with that... congenital defect along with the albinoism? Killer herp man! My cb alb Sonoran is probably my favorite pit. jim
User avatar
Kevin McRae
Posts: 110
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:28 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Kevin McRae »

hellihooks wrote:Stop holding it so dang tight Ben... It's eyes are popping out... :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: seriously... whats up with that... congenital defect along with the albinoism? Killer herp man! My cb alb Sonoran is probably my favorite pit. jim
I know with leucistic texas ratsnakes "bugged eyed" is a common genetic defect. Mostly likely the same with the pit above.
User avatar
Jeremiah_Easter
Posts: 353
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:48 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Jeremiah_Easter »

That Gopher is absolutely hideous. Poor thing :o
hellihooks
Posts: 8025
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
Location: Hesperia, California.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by hellihooks »

Jeremiah_Easter wrote:That Gopher is absolutely hideous. Poor thing :o
I know you've grown used to it... but have you looked at your avatar lately... I find that statement issueing from your avatar hilariousley paradoxically incongrouous....A PERFECT Dichotomy...TOO FUNNY... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
User avatar
Ross Padilla
Posts: 2666
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 6:29 pm
Location: I love L.A.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Ross Padilla »

If you showed that leucistic Gopher snake to a breeder, they'd probably say those bug eyes are the result of too much inbreeding. Leucistic Texas Rat snakes seemed to develop the bug eyes from inbreeding. Its kind of strange one would be found like that in the wild. Maybe its not due to inbreeding after all.
User avatar
Mike Pingleton
Posts: 1471
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 am
Location: One of the boys from Illinois
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Mike Pingleton »

I have the feeling I might be in for a jolt of reality upon actually meeting Jeremiah :mrgreen:
hellihooks wrote:
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:That Gopher is absolutely hideous. Poor thing :o
I know you've grown used to it... but have you looked at your avatar lately... I find that statement issueing from your avatar hilariousley paradoxically incongrouous....A PERFECT Dichotomy...TOO FUNNY... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
User avatar
TravisK
Posts: 774
Joined: July 8th, 2010, 11:14 am
Location: Eastern Washington

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by TravisK »

Talk about a 'LOOKER'


That thing is FUGLY.
User avatar
FunkyRes
Posts: 1994
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:19 am
Location: Redding, CA
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by FunkyRes »

Ross Padilla wrote:If you showed that leucistic Gopher snake to a breeder, they'd probably say those bug eyes are the result of too much inbreeding. Leucistic Texas Rat snakes seemed to develop the bug eyes from inbreeding. Its kind of strange one would be found like that in the wild. Maybe its not due to inbreeding after all.
Do any inbred rat snakes possess that trait without being leucistic?
Terry Vandeventer
Posts: 68
Joined: June 19th, 2010, 4:58 am

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Terry Vandeventer »

The bug eyed condition is characteristic of leucism in snakes and usually occurs in the F2 generation. Wild-caught leucistics never (presumably) show this trait because they represent a single, one time, spontaneous mutation. I'm guessing that that snake was the result of captive breeding or was captured in the wild as an escapee. Either way, captive produced. Does anybody know of any legitimately wild-born leucistic snake of any kind that possessed the bug-eyed trait?

In captivity these snakes are allowed to survive and breed. With the first het-to-het or het-to-leucistic generation to include leucistic babies, a large percentage of these babies often (usually) exhibit the bug-eyed trait. Obviously the more inbreeding that is done, the more prominantly the trait pops up. However, intense inbreeding is not required Interestinly enough, but not completely unexpected, normal-colored hets never exhibit the bug eyed condition.

Cheers,

TV
User avatar
dezertwerx
Posts: 809
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:05 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by dezertwerx »

Crazy looking eyes for sure... kinda creepy
User avatar
Ross Padilla
Posts: 2666
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 6:29 pm
Location: I love L.A.
Contact:

Re: Wild caught albinos???

Post by Ross Padilla »

FunkyRes wrote:
Ross Padilla wrote:If you showed that leucistic Gopher snake to a breeder, they'd probably say those bug eyes are the result of too much inbreeding. Leucistic Texas Rat snakes seemed to develop the bug eyes from inbreeding. Its kind of strange one would be found like that in the wild. Maybe its not due to inbreeding after all.
Do any inbred rat snakes possess that trait without being leucistic?
I guess Terry answered that question. I have no idea.
Post Reply