It was like the Lord of the Flies

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bkmamba824
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It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by bkmamba824 »

I have to say that I have witnessed some pretty strange things before but this was unique. On Aug. 13 I was in the Green Valley Lake area for a friends birthday. It was also a surprise party so my friend had a group of friends and about 20 family members show up. On the 13th everyone decided to go skeet shooting in the hills and along the way we stumbled upon a decent sized Helleri, which happened to be a lifer for me. I was riding a quad behind a few vehicles that were ahead of us when I heard someone shout, rattlesnake! I immediately reached for my camera and was hoping for a few pictures before we moved on but just as I look up to see where the snake is I see someone throw a sizable rock right at the snakes head, turning it into, well, a mess. At this point, with everyone gathering around the snake in excitement I am sitting there speechless, camera in hand, and feeling ill. During the commotion one guy yells, "cut its head off!", then I hear another say, "I want its tail!". At which point another person who happened to be carrying a nice sized buck knife comes over, puts his foot on the snakes neck and cuts the rest of the head. Then reaches over and cuts the tail off and delivers the trophy to the guy that had asked for it. Now the snake has no head and no tail and everyone proceeds to poke and prod at the thrashing, dying body. I am sitting in the background just frozen in complete disgust as 20 plus people defile and desecrate this animal, just because it was a "rattlesnake". Of course (sarcasm) after everyone is done playing with the lifeless corpse the guy with the knife proceeds to gut and clean the snake so he can take it back and bbq it. During this whole event I recall looking at my friend and his wife who know how passionate I am for animals but especially reptiles and say, "wow that was like the lord of the flies right there". I didn't like the fact that they killed the snake but the complete disregard for the beauty and wonder of such an amazing animal was a disgrace and something I will never forget. I guess we have a ways to go still before people truly understand these creatures for the wonders they possess. This was a lifer not soon to be forgotten.


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WyattE
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by WyattE »

Thats truly pretty horrifying. I really can't believe people sometimes. Ignorance runs deep with many unfortunately.
hellihooks
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by hellihooks »

As you mature as a herper, and no offense intended, possibly as a person, you'll stop those kinds of things from happening. Took me a few times of seeing crap like that, to develop my resolve... now, even if they have guns, and I don't know them from Adam...IT AIN'T Happening... :evil: :evil: :evil: :beer: jim
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bkmamba824
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by bkmamba824 »

I completely agree...hopefully I don't see anything like this ever again but I arrived after the snake had already had its neck broken by a beer can or something similar. I forgot to mention that part.
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spiltbeerpirate
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by spiltbeerpirate »

There is such a stigma associated with snakes to begin with. The media always sensationalizing their "deadly" nature. Seems like almost every time I turn on the TV I see something that puts snakes in a bad light, and half the time it is missinformation, like a mountain king or milksnake being animated with fangs. So when a "civilian" is presented with a rattlesnake with truely is deadly, Im not surprised by a ignorant and violent response. Its sad, and I do my best to educate who I can, but its very hard to combat the negative affects of popular media. For those religious folks, lets not forget about the garden of Eden.....the anti-snake brainwashing is even present in Sunday school. lol.
Sad outcome, looked to be a beautiful animal.
Someday humans will kill all the snakes and we will be over run with rodents and end up extinct from some new form of the Black Plague!
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Kevin Price
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by Kevin Price »

Well said Jim.
I completely agree...hopefully I don't see anything like this ever again but I arrived after the snake had already had its neck broken by a beer can or something similar. I forgot to mention that part.
If you continue to herp you will see this again and again. You should send this link to your friends.
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JAMAUGHN
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by JAMAUGHN »

I agree with everything that's been said here, and I also think this sort of thing underscores the importance of outreach, esp. to children. Kids don't necessarily have the same idiotic, kneejerk reactions, and when they can be converted to herpophiles (that word just doesn't look right...) early, then maybe this sort of thing can be avoided in the future.

Also, carrying a big stick helps ward off the ones you just can't reason with... :|
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spiltbeerpirate
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by spiltbeerpirate »

As if to put an exclimation point on my last comment, I was watching TV last night and the movie Collateral Damage with Arnold Schwarzenegger was on. There is a scene in that movie where a guerilla in Columbia uses a milk snake as a form of execution by putting it down the captives throat. I find the mountain of negitive propoganda to be infuriating. :x

Ryan
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Steve Bledsoe
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by Steve Bledsoe »

The world is full of dumbasses.
Many of them work for the press and the media, even more of them work for the government, and they're breeding.
You can't lose sleep over it.
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spiltbeerpirate
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by spiltbeerpirate »

I concur Steve....I work with pleanty.

I won't start losing sleep until the blind mobs turn from the herps to the herpers. I might loose sleep over the zombie apocolypse too, but I think that is a different chat board. :crazyeyes:
RobertH
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by RobertH »

Jacob, sorry to hear about your terrible experience. :(

For any good at all to come out of this, you may want to think about ways in which you could turn this into a "teaching moment" for your friends. The point should not be to make them feel bad and stupid, but rather to educate them about the real-life ramifications of what they did, among them the fact that their own ignorant mindset will probably be passed on to their children (if and when they have them, and many of them will), and so on.

Just sending them the link for this post probably wouldn't achieve that goal. They'd simply feel hated and misunderstood. You'll have to go about it more diplomatically. Foremost, you may just want to tell them how it made you feel as a herper and ask them how they'd feel if you cut the head and tail off their favorite species of dog (that's pretty much what my wife asked another mother after she told Nicholas that she had found a snake in their house (not even a rattler) and simply thrown it in the trash, this knowing that Nicholas is a passionate herper :? ). Then, you could point out that leaving aside your personal feelings, killing rattlesnakes, or any other snakes for that matter, is pointless because snakes are not a risk to anyone if left alone, and killing them will only tend to upset the ecological balance (rodent populations grow, etc.).

Because these are actually your friends, you may actually have the ability to change the mindset of this or the other person. If it were a group of strangers, any effort would likely be futile.

Robert
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Fieldnotes
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by Fieldnotes »

I'm sure that other in your group would have felt the same as you did... I agree, next time speak up. But at least they ate it later.. :shock:
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socalherper
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by socalherper »

This is why we need to educate people....
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Kent VanSooy
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by Kent VanSooy »

And no doubt at least a portion of the group now consider themselves rattlesnake experts, and will share their extensive, uh, knowledge at every opportunity.
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MarcLinsalata
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by MarcLinsalata »

I hope not to start an argument, and pllleeeeeeaasssee trust me, I think it is ridiculous what they did but at least (as stupid as this may sound) they threw it on the old BBQ instead of just leaving a writhing corpse there to wiggle in the sand. I don't know, I guess I hope they enjoyed it.....

Marc

Favorite herp: The common snapping turtle :)
Favorite soup: Snapper soup :oops: :cry:
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Bitinglittlewitch
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by Bitinglittlewitch »

With friends of friends like those, who needs enemas? ------->===<-c:-<
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KingCam
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by KingCam »

It's going to be several thousand more years before humans evolve past being murderous primates. :(
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KingCam
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by KingCam »

MarcLinsalata wrote:I hope not to start an argument, and pllleeeeeeaasssee trust me, I think it is ridiculous what they did but at least (as stupid as this may sound) they threw it on the old BBQ instead of just leaving a writhing corpse there to wiggle in the sand. I don't know, I guess I hope they enjoyed it.....

Marc

Favorite herp: The common snapping turtle :)
Favorite soup: Snapper soup :oops: :cry:
I have to agree. It's sick that their first reaction is to throw rocks/beer cans to kill such a beautiful animal, but at least it wasn't a complete waste.

Let me be next in line to say I love snapping turtle soup and frog legs both. Snapping turtles in farm ponds cause cattle to end up losing udders, they must be removed or killed. When this is the case I like to make soup :thumb: I don't really have a good excuse for killing and eating bullfrogs other than I like the way they taste.
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by VICtort »

Like most everyone, I found this incident repugnant...but it does not always go that way. I was called to remove a rattlesnake from a crowded picnic area, and to my surprise, nobody harmed it, and they gave me a round of applause when I hooked it into a trash can to relocate it a few hundred yards away (the only practical option). Some of those folks were from the "old country", and prone to killing things they are unfamiliar with, so I was impressed they called and waited for me.

KingCam, I honestly don't know if you are kidding or not (i.e hoop snakes/milk snakes), please elaborate on snapping turtles removing cow udders...I am from the west coast and not real familiar with snappers, but I admit I am skeptical. Fill me in on snappers and cow udders please.
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spiltbeerpirate
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by spiltbeerpirate »

VICtort wrote:Like most everyone, I found this incident repugnant...but it does not always go that way. I was called to remove a rattlesnake from a crowded picnic area, and to my surprise, nobody harmed it, and they gave me a round of applause when I hooked it into a trash can to relocate it a few hundred yards away (the only practical option). Some of those folks were from the "old country", and prone to killing things they are unfamiliar with, so I was impressed they called and waited for me.

KingCam, I honestly don't know if you are kidding or not (i.e hoop snakes/milk snakes), please elaborate on snapping turtles removing cow udders...I am from the west coast and not real familiar with snappers, but I admit I am skeptical. Fill me in on snappers and cow udders please.

On hot days cows will wade into the stream or pond to cool off, and I imagine the large milking udders look like fish or amphibians in the mirky water. Or maybe its just a defensive response. But this is not the first time i've heard of this.
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by hellihooks »

It just sounds udderly redictulous... :crazyeyes:
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KingCam
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Re: It was like the Lord of the Flies

Post by KingCam »

VICtort wrote:Like most everyone, I found this incident repugnant...but it does not always go that way. I was called to remove a rattlesnake from a crowded picnic area, and to my surprise, nobody harmed it, and they gave me a round of applause when I hooked it into a trash can to relocate it a few hundred yards away (the only practical option). Some of those folks were from the "old country", and prone to killing things they are unfamiliar with, so I was impressed they called and waited for me.

KingCam, I honestly don't know if you are kidding or not (i.e hoop snakes/milk snakes), please elaborate on snapping turtles removing cow udders...I am from the west coast and not real familiar with snappers, but I admit I am skeptical. Fill me in on snappers and cow udders please.
Cows wade into farm ponds to cool off and drink. Sometimes big snappers see those udders dangling in the water and they can bite at them. It doesn't happen as often as farmers like to act like it does, but it's always the excuse they use for killing snappers. My uncle was a dairy farmer, and I do know it actually does happen from time to time.
hellihooks wrote:It just sounds udderly redictulous... :crazyeyes:
lmao, indeed it does :lol:
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